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Old 06-12-2014, 11:48 AM   #151
bdassdrummr
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At Subaru right now. Third time I've brought it in for the gritty/sticking clutch after acceleration. Finally the tech felt it today. Starting teardown right now.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:06 PM   #152
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ok so here is the update. dealer called me 3 hours after dropping the car off. said they found that the clutch had been extremely overheated (pressure plate, disc, and flywheel) and said since it was driver abuse it was not covered under warranty. I was livid. First off I have been driving manual for 8 years and have never abused my cars. and for a clutch to go out on a wrx in a year? no way. Never launched, drifted, etc and car is stock. Called SOA asap. Finally today they called me back and said the best they can do is to offer me a 50/50 split as a gesture of goodwill because they can't find anything mechanically that went wrong. This results in me paying $860 out of pocket on a year old car. Had to take the deal because I need my car back. Anyone else have a similar outcome? There are numerous reasons why the clutch could have gone out so fast and I really don't think they checked into all of them.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:47 PM   #153
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nope, i had that issue for 10s of thousands of miles and it eventually went away.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:11 PM   #154
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You might want to spend the extra $100 and have them put that Snout repair kit while they're at it (whether they believe it would help or not is beside the point). It might just save you from repeating this transaction all over again in another year or two, assuming that was the real cause. The kit is $80-120 depending on where you get it and it only takes a few minutes for them to install and the retaining clip it includes with a larger bearing will keep the throw-out bearing from riding on the forks where it could get stuck and heat up or cause the clutch to keep rubbing (which sounds like what might have happened to yours).

Frankly, over $1700 for a clutch is a heck of a lot, anyway. The parts cost them about $600 at most (probably less; I'm seeing $400-500 online being typical and that's to the consumer, not a dealer) and shouldn't take them more than 2-3 hours at most with their lift system. The bottom line is that it shouldn't cost more than $1000-1200 max, IMO (i.e. $500-600 split). In fact, most 3rd party offers I'm seeing online will install a performance clutch for around $1300 (clutch included) that will take a lot more abuse regardless. I remember a clutch used to cost $800 installed in the mid'90s at a GM dealership. $1700+ WTF.... The whole point of manual transmissions beyond control is that they're so much cheaper to repair than automatics. I sold my '93 Probe GT used for $2k at 155k miles and it was still on its original clutch and not slipping. If I had to include a new clutch at those prices, I would never have been able to sell the thing period. I would have had to give it away.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:54 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oper8n View Post
Hey guys, I've got a similar issue, but not after WOT or after a dig...

I get this weird clutch pedal feel, almost like friction against sandpaper, all throughout the clutch travel. It happens when RPMs are above idle, with the sensation increasing as revs do. If I'm driving in gear, say 5th, and let it into neutral, push in the clutch as if to shift but don't push the lever into 5th, there's no sandpaper feeling.

But when I blip the throttle as if to rev match but not get into gear, the feeling comes back as soon as I let off the clutch at the engagement point. It also happens as I get into gear at speed with appropriate rev matching. When in gear, as I push in the clutch to test out the feeling, it's there. No noise, whatsoever. No slipping, either.

I think this feeling happened soon after my 30k service, not too sure. Maybe I'm hypersensitive, but I never really noticed this sort of clutch feel before. I'm right around 36k so the warranty is about up. Thinking of dropping it off at the dealer and having them take a look.

Anyone feel the same thing?
Ive owned 3 subarus with MT's. This seems like a common subaru thing. I never had a "problem" with my cars but they all did this.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:28 AM   #156
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It's perfectly "normal" for our cars to experience this "grit" in the clutch. It WILL go away on it's own. I wouldn't spend a dime on it. Even with the "feeling" the transmission will still operate perfectly fine.

I tried to use my warranty 4 times for "noises/feelings" and each time the dealer told me to piss off. Now I understand that I was "wrong" to expect a brand new car to be free of such defects.

The warranty is essentially a guarantee that the car will get you from point A to point B. If you want the drive to be more blissful, you gotta buy a better car.
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Old 06-21-2014, 04:15 PM   #157
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That "feeling" is caused by the throw-out bearing floating around the clutch fork. The problem starts when the grease thins out a bit or dries up entirely (the bearing tends to push it away over time). It'll move back around to a less vibration-prone position unless you're very unlucky and it gets stuck partially engaged or rubbing against the case (former will wear your pad and overheat it causing the problem mentioned a few posts above; the latter will wear your throw-out bearing down and score your case. People have had throw-out bearing literally explode into all the little bearings falling onto the ground from the latter. Subaru will DENY IT'S THEIR FAULT EVERY TIME and label you as a bad driver because it's not a recognized defect and for some reason they haven't been sued yet (and they should be, IMO since this defective design has been present in all Subarus with manual transmissions since 2006). Retaining clips are common on almost every machine out there. It's ridiculous there isn't one to keep the throw-out bearing from moving onto the forks.

I had a 2004 WRX before this one and it never had ANY noticeable grit or vibration in the clutch pedal and I traded it in at just over 80k miles with no issues with the original clutch and I LAUNCHED that thing at least once a day for 5 years straight. It didn't matter. If done properly, a launch is not that hard on a clutch. A bad clutch design, however could break at any time and that is exactly what I believe is happening to people who never wore out a clutch in their lives and suddenly their WRX clutch burns up at 8000 miles. Even a really bad driver that rides the clutch all the time shouldn't be able to burn a clutch up that quickly. They're like brakes. WTF wears out brakes in less than a year? That won't stop Subaru from laughing behind your back at what a horrible driver you must be when it happens. What is needed is a class-action lawsuit with some engineering backing. Their bad design shouldn't be causing people to have to buy $1500-1700 clutch replacements in such short periods of time (I sold my ProbeGT at 155k miles and it was still on its original clutch, not slipping and wasn't hard to push in). Subaru's clutches are WAY overpriced at that when it only takes them a couple of hours with their lift system that holds both the car and the tranny for them, etc. that makes it a breeze compared to doing it in your garage and I've seen people do it in their garage in under 3 hours. When you've got a performance shop offering to put in a Stage 1 racing clutch for $1300 installed and Subaru wants $1700 for a stock clutch installed, you know there's something wrong there.
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Old 07-20-2014, 03:58 PM   #158
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Pulling out of the driveway today in reverse, the clutch made a sound similar to a squeaky drive belt so I can only assume it's the throw-out bearing. It only did it in the slip zone. Pumping it didn't help any, but by the time I got to the local street corner it had stopped doing it and there was no vibration what-so-ever in the pedal (usually a tiny bit or more and it comes and goes like that). When I left work, it was making more noise than usual idling (I had a slight tick tick from the throw-out bearing from day one when the car was brand new) and sounded more like a belt rubbing kind of sound, but nowhere near as loud as this morning and this was idling with the clutch disengaged. It still went quiet engaged and wasn't any louder in the slip zone. When I got home (exhaust is too loud to hear any of this stuff while driving), it was back to making little to no sound other than a slight tick again.

I'm guessing the throw-out bearing was moving along different points on the fork and then ended back up where it started from, but I'm only guessing. I'm starting to think I should go ahead and get the snout kit. I don't want to put it in, though and I have no idea what it would cost to get someone else to do it. I'm sure it would be less than a full clutch job since it's just the throw-out bearing and adapter. I'm just kind of sick of waiting for disaster to happen with this thing. It's out of the 3/30 warranty now so it's not like I wouldn't get charged the full amount for a clutch even if it is their stupid defective design (still can't for the life of me figure why in 8 years they haven't added a retaining clip at least). I don't know if the '15 WRX made any changes to the clutch design. I kind of doubt it.

Edit: From what I've been reading the "ticking" sound in neutral with the clutch pedal out (engaged) is not caused by a throw-out bearing, but the input shaft bearing inside the transmission box, which is why it stop when you press the clutch in (shaft no longer rotates). This is the sound that has been there since day one and seems a bit louder now (I dunno about that weird squeal the other day as it hasn't done it since; the TOB may have moved along the shaft/fork area).

Apparently, a bad TOB does the opposite. It's quiet when the clutch is engaged (pedal out) and makes a noise when you depress it, especially towards the end of travel and continuously makes it with the clutch all the way in (disengaged). A "chirp" as you start to press the clutch in is also likely the TOB. I don't get any of that. I gather short of catastrophic failure, you generally don't want to mess with the input shaft bearing as it's a lot of work for something that may be harmless at light volumes (i.e. mine has made an audible noise from day one). I'm at ~24k miles now.

Last edited by VonMagnum; 07-23-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 07-27-2014, 05:11 PM   #159
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Geeze, the clutch and/or transmission is making all kinds of odd squeaks, ticks and whirrs now that get louder and come and go as they please. I wonder if it's always been doing this or I just never noticed since I normally have the stereo blasting all the time (but seeing my defective mirror mount is vibrating too much from the sub, I have had the stereo either turned off or down all week).

I'm honestly half tempted to go trade this thing in for a newer model (seeing the Blue Book trade value is high enough it would only cost me around $6k to do so), but I'm not sure if I really like the 2015's looks very much. Maybe I can find a still new '14 hatchback somewhere around here instead. I don't know that either one has improved the clutch design since 2006, though. I suppose there's always the CVT model....OMG I can't believe I actually thought about that for a second.... I hate paddle shifters.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:04 PM   #160
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I don't know if anyone is still following this thread but I thought I would share. 2012 wrx 2 1/2 years old original owner 34000 miles. I have been dealing with the gritty clutch since about 4k. I have known about the throwout bearing issue for awhile, just decided to wait as long as possible with a hope that a newer part would replace it. Along with the gritty clutch and squeak durning cold start I also have a knock sound when you quickly release the clutch pedal. Won't happen if you slowly release clutch. It Is coming from the tranny area so it is most likely related. Also have ruff shifting from 1st to second sometimes. Basically got fed up and I dropped my car off at the dealership yesterday. Still not done today so I'm assuming they are dropping the tranny. Will update if anyone cares.

Also this thread should be in the transmission drivetrain section.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:12 PM   #161
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Still not done today so I'm assuming they are dropping the tranny. Will update if anyone cares.
I'm interested in updates.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:03 AM   #162
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Interested!
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Old 08-01-2014, 05:45 PM   #163
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Got the car back today, and much was done. Going off of the receipt this is what was replaced- r&i transmission, replaced clutch assembly: clutch, pressure plate, release bearing and pilot bearing. Immediately pressing the clutch in I noticed a big difference. Clutch pedal is extremely light compared to before. I'm actually surprised how much lighter. I wasn't able to talk to the tech but the service advisor basically told me my pressure plate was messed up beyond repair due to the throwout bearing. Car drives and shifts so much smoother now. I only put 15 miles on it today so time will tell if it happens again. Still have a audible clunk when releasing the clutch pedal quickly but it's not near as prominent.

Other then having new dings and scratches ( which I am addressing to them) I'm glad it's fixed. While i do see people complain about this issue I wonder how many people either don't have this problem at all or don't even realize that it is a problem. If it comes back I'm going to do one of 3 things. I'm either going try and have them install that throwout bearing kit that fixes the issue with retaining the throwout bearing. Roll the dice and have it fixed under warranty again, or just sell the damn thing( which is really hard because I love the car even more now)

Hope this helps some people. Don't ignore the gritty clutch, it's not normal.

Also want to note my driving style. Car has Never been launched, and never driven hard. I'm 31 and want to make this car last to at least 150k

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Old 08-06-2014, 04:37 PM   #164
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I've been reading a lot of threads in LegacyGT forums on the throw-out bearing and I'm convinced Subaru must have the worst on the planet. My own is starting to make noises on/of in the slip zone (none fully engaged so far though) plus the "whirring" is worse when the clutch is not engaged (could be the pressure plate or the pilot or input bearings) and I've gone ahead and ordered the TSK3 Snout kit as I'm assuming the at the very least the throw-out bearing is on its way out and this way it can't damage the quill next time (it may or may not be damaged by the time I get this in). I'm only at 24k miles. That's RIDICULOUS to have an issue with a TOB at that mileage. I get no slip or pedal change so I can only assume its just the crappy throw-out bearing that's ticked from DAY 1 on this car.

I've had four other stick shifts before this one including an '04 WRX and NONE of them ever had a thro-wout bearing go bad. In fact, none had a clutch go bad and I had 130k on one when I sold it and 140k on another when I sold it. You should not have to even start to worry about clutch issues if you even remotely know how to drive until 70-80k miles and probably 100k+ with really good drivers. Anything else is a defect. But the dealers and service centers will never admit that. They want a small fortune to change a damn clutch these days. You might as well get an automatic and get it over with in terms of reliability because it used to be manuals were 5x more reliable than complex automatic transmissions. These days I hear NOTHING about problems with Legacy models that have automatics, but tons of problems with the GT sticks. They've had a crummy clutch ever since they switched from Pull to Push back around '05/'06 (I forget exactly when). It should not cost $1500-1700 to change a clutch even at a dealer to begin with and if your quill is too damaged, you can pony up another $3k-5k for a new transmission while you're at it all because of total garbage throw-out bearings.

I'm giving some serious thought to saying goodbye to Subaru in general and trying a car from someone else, even if it's not as high performance. I'm sick of worrying about my clutch every time it makes a squeak or chirp or tick.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:45 PM   #165
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im ditching mine for a 2015 douche stang GT with track pack soon
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:43 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneQuiet22 View Post
Got the car back today, and much was done. Going off of the receipt this is what was replaced- r&i transmission, replaced clutch assembly: clutch, pressure plate, release bearing and pilot bearing.
Was it replaced under warranty or did you have to shell out some big bucks? Did it itemize the costs at least? The clutch is one thing, but if that stupid bearing takes the transmission with it, that's BIG money for a lousy $100 bearing. I'm truly disgusted with Subaru regardless of the condition of my car in the end. This has apparently been an issue for them for a decade now and they've done little to nothing about it. I just watched a Youtube video last night of a 2015 WRX making a squealing sound when pressing in the clutch. Ridiculous. Just utterly ridiculous.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:40 PM   #167
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Was it replaced under warranty or did you have to shell out some big bucks? Did it itemize the costs .
It was covered under warranty. I'm a little upset that it is just now getting fixed as I've had the gritty clutch feel since 3-4k. I'm at 35k now. They didn't have a price on the paper work, Just says warranty covered. This is a poor throw out bearing design. They replaced my clutch but I'm sure that the clutch disk was perfectly fine. As for damage to the transmission case input shaft I wouldn't worry too much about that unless you ignore serious grittiness for long periods (100k). If the only issue was the squealing on cold starts I would be fine with that. But I hated driving the car when the clutch felt like ****, and shifts like a old pickup truck. I would have this issue every day leaving work. Took 3 trips to the dealership to fix the issue. I'm at 120 miles now and the clutch pedal has firmed up to normal, and the gritty feel has not returned yet. I have my doubts about wether it will stay gone. If it returns again I will have it replaced again and then sell it. Hopefully I can get another 2 years out of it and get a Audi s3 But the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Trade one problem for another. And yes the 2015s may have a different transmission but they still have the same, or very similar throw out bearing design, so they will squeak too.
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:27 PM   #168
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I've got an appointment tomorrow at Subaru to have the TSK3 snout kit installed now before the transmission becomes damaged (any further). I can't wait to see how much they charge to put it in. They'll probably try to tell me the thing is fine instead or they can't do it for another week they're so backed up or some other crap. I know one thing, whether or not I ever buy another Subaru again is riding on what they do and how they behave. I'm seriously thinking as an alternate of getting a Charger AWD before the 2015s come on the market (they seem to have gone ugly again with the '15).
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:29 PM   #169
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Well, they finally got the snout kit installed (car is at 26k miles and a little over 3 years old) and sprayed the brake lines for the recent recall while they were at it. I got charged 5 hours labor even though it wasn't quite 5 hours and part of that time was spraying the brake lines. It came to $523 plus the snout kit I already bought online and had rushed here so about $750 total to get "peace of mind" about this throw-out bearing thing.

Now for the lowdown. They found no evidence of any quill damage. The throw-out bearing was in good shape (they gave me the part) and showed no signs of damage and the mechanic wondered why I wanted the kit installed in a car with a clutch that appeared to be in like new condition when they took it all apart. It seemed to drive OK, afterwards (not sure if the engagement points changed any, but it does feel a little different although no grit there, but given they must have greased the forks, etc. I expect it should feel more like new again), but the "tick tick" noise I get at idle with the clutch engaged (pedal all the way out) was still there as loud as ever (I assume it's the input shaft bearing for the transmission that has made that sound all along as it's now obviously NOT the throw-out bearing). I gather these can make some noise and be perfectly fine so I'm not even going to go there.

The really lousy part was by the time I got home the car was smoking under the hood by the turbo. I took it back. Apparently, they must have damaged a seal there when they tightened it back down and it was leaking oil slightly. They gave me a loner since they can't get to it until tomorrow. I'm kind of sick of the "stress" factor here related to worrying about something that may not have had a problem to begin with.

I looked at the service manager's 2015 WRX while I was there and it looked better than the photos I've seen. It was actually pretty nice looking. He said he feels it's much more pleasant to drive at lower RPMs with no noticeable turbo lag compared to the older models. I also looked at a turbo Forester while I was there. I couldn't help but think about the increased utility of it. That one was pretty nice looking.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:33 PM   #170
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so just like i believed, taking it in for service for these clutch gremlins only makes things worse.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:10 PM   #171
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so just like i believed, taking it in for service for these clutch gremlins only makes things worse.
The seal on the turbo was an accidental thing and they're going to cover it. I can't say that based on that initial drive there and back that the clutch was "worse". If anything, it had no "grit" to it at all and felt pretty smooth. The question is whether the vibration/grit will stay away with that kit and/or if there's anything else I couldn't tell from such a short drive.

The TSK3 kit has larger bearings in it and a retaining clip for the forks to help prevent it from ever getting stuck or wearing the grease of as easily. If anything, I think the car should come standard with that kit. Several people had their transmissions damaged by the bearing going bad and this kit makes that preventable (i.e. the $20 sleeve would take the damage instead of the quill beneath it).

Something made the clutch squeal in the slip zone on three different occasions (the latter two only a few days apart). I'm pretty sure that's not normal behavior. I've never had a clutch "squeal" before for any reason. I had a chirp in my very first car, but that was at well over 100k miles and I abused the throw-out bearing at red lights often due to the previous owner having worn out the 1st gear synchro making it hard to get into gear quickly. I was simply concerned since several people on here with similar symptoms did have a bad bearing and I didn't want to risk $5k in transmission damage over a bearing. Maybe nothing would have happened for years and years or maybe it would have started wearing down over the next few months. I can't be certain as I don't know what caused the squeals.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:51 AM   #172
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curious why you would pay dealer labor for that? you could have paid 75/hr with an independent subaru shop vs 108.9/hr. especially for an aftermarket part
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:49 PM   #173
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What is an independent Subaru shop, exactly? A 3rd party garage, OK. I wanted someone who knows the WRX inside out to do it. I don't know of any independent "Subaru" shops. I could have went to someone like Goodyear for closer to $75 an hour. I'm not sure they do much clutch work. I don't know any trustworthy 3rd party garages around here. I wish I did. And their labor rate is $90 an hour there, not $108.9 an hour (tax, shop charge, etc.) that no place figures into their labor rate.

Update: First full day of driving with the TSK3 bearing. Shifting feels very similar, but thus far the pedal is silky smooth, free of all "grit" it had on/off so something improved, even if it's just due to new grease on the forks. The old bearing looks OK offhand (you really need to move it on something to hope to get a feel for whether there's any issue, though beyond catastrophic failure), but the black grease on it feels pretty dry. I can imagine the bearing getting stuck at some point if that trend continued. I hope the grease the shop used is better than what it came with from Japan. Otherwise, the car feels pretty much the same and the idle "tick" is still there in full force so whatever it is (transmission shaft bearing or pilot bearing?), it wasn't the throw-out bearing whirring and ticking with the pedal out in neutral.

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Old 08-16-2014, 11:44 PM   #174
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About 26k miles on my 2013 now. I'm starting to notice just a bit of grittiness to the clutch travel, though not 100% of the time.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:43 PM   #175
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I'm noticing that even after Subaru replaced the seal on the turbo, I'm still getting some oil drops on my garage floor. I'm guessing there's another seal they screwed up along the way of putting the TSK3 kit in. Oh joy.

Edit: Upon closer inspection of where my car sits when in the garage, it looks like this fluid residue on the floor is below the transmission, not the turbo as before, but it's hard to see under there exactly where plus the car may not be in the exact same position (probably close horizontally, but not necessarily front-to-back). I put some towels under there to see if any new drops appear. So far, after 40 minutes, nothing, but it may take some time. I don't recall seeing any the previous day. I don't see anything from the top of the engine that indicates any leaks (i.e. you could see the turbo thing from both ends, particularly with obviously smoking after the engine got warm).

Last edited by VonMagnum; 08-17-2014 at 05:28 PM.
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