Td04h-19t

[gunshed]

Hello all,

I am going to replace my stock TD04L-13T in my 2004 WRX and have decided a TD04H-19T is a perfect replacement for my goals with the car. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find a reliable vender that sells this size turbo.

KINUGAWA sells a TD04L-19T and a TD04HL-19T, but I am looking for a turbine right in between those sizes.

The only place I found is "Arashi Dynamics". I have seen very mixed reviews on this company and they seem pretty red flaggy to me.

Does anyone know where new TD04H-19T's can be had? Browsing the forums, they seemed to be plenty available back in 2014, but no one talks about them anymore.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

[benflynn]

19t is a poor match for the td04h housing, they are usually matched to a td04hl housing. I would at least match it to a turbine wheel down a blade or clipped.

You will be happier with a 180$ used vf39, cheap and worth a try, if you don’t like it you can get your 180$ back out of it.

[gunshed]

My goal is to keep a low spool RPM. The TD04L is much too small unless I get it clipped and the TD04HL is slightly too large. The VF39 is nice and cheap but the high spool rpm kills it for me. I plan on running 18psi taper to 15/16psi.

[benflynn]

Can u get E85, it makes an astonishing difference when pushing these small turbos.

U can send ur turbo to turbolabs, they make a 19t bmw upgrade, sure he can turn ur mitsu into anything you want.

[gunshed]

I don't believe flex fuel is supported by my ECU. By me, E85 ranges from E50 to E85 so I can't have a reliable non-flex tune.

My current turbo is 130,000 miles with a cracked hot side housing. I think it is best to replace it. I could also buy a used one to send in, I'll check out turbolabs to see what they can offer.

[D-Rodman]

I have an Arashi TD04HL 19t installed on my jdm ej205 with functional avcs, got a custom tune for it, it is an awesome daily driver street turbo. Spools super quick, love it. Driveability is awesome, on the highway the car behaves like it is naturally aspirated. Changing lanes and accelerating in 5th gear without having to shift into 4th is so good.
I have a vf48 on my other car, also a 2L but an STi ej207. The difference is night and day, the vf48 just can’t spool like the TD04HL 19T on the highway. The vf48 requires I shift into a lower gear and build boost in order to feel the liveliness and power the TD04HL has without having to change gears. I’m actually considering replacing the vf48 with a vf34 in order to have a livelier faster spooling factory turbo that has the strong top end like the vf48.
Had. Blouch 18g XTR before, it was not a fast spooling turbo even compared to the vf48.



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Here is an early Dyno chart, now running a revised map with a smooth linear power curve.
This is the turbo I purchased, I went for the 6+6 blade because I wanted a stronger midrange over a stronger top end. Been running it for a year, no complaints.

[tomacGTi]

I have had a TD04HL-19T for almost ten years on a 2.0l.

I can tell you now, nothing will spool faster than the stock turbo at this displacement. Anything, including the 19t will spool slower. The USDM motor never came with AVCS which would help the situation and it doesn't produce enough exhaust energy until higher in the rev range. If you are looking in the direction of a larger turbo, you are going to have to learn to drive it higher in the rev range to keep the response. There is no free lunch.

The reason why I went to the 19t was I wanted more bandwidth above 5000 RPM where the stock turbo signed off. I essentially gave up spool at 2500 RPM to gain another 2000 RPM up top where the stock turbo would run out of steam.

When I was looking at replacing my stock TD04 I had contemplated all of them searching for the holy grail including the VF34, 24, 39/43/48, 16g and HKS turbos. The 19t was known to be a ticking timebomb mostly because of the wheel mismatch and undersized bearings. People figured out quickly that the best solution is the HL housing with the HD thrust bearing and larger shaft diameter.

Now, there are cost-effective 19t options, ten years ago there weren't. It was better to go to a larger, more robust turbo than modding a stock one for equal money. I still think that is the better direction to go and learn to drive it even though I went 19t.

If you are after spool, the best setup would be stage 2 with all the supporting mods including bigger injectors. I know they say you can do it with the light blues but on a cold day I was seeing 110%+ IDCs regularly when I would log. Just know that the party is over around 5000 RPMs as you get beyond third gear.

Things to remember: spool is just that, getting the turbo spun up. Once it's spun up, you're driving on response which will be reliant on the center section (BB or sleeve bearing) and exhaust energy. Obviously the BB turbos are the most responsive but also the most expensive. The only way to increase exhaust energy is displacement or change the gearing in your car lower for more torque/higher cruise RPM.

In either direction you go, you will need supporting mods, hence why most people just go bigger. By that point, it costs the same and you get more but have to change your driving habits.

My .02$. Hope this helps.

-Randy

[gunshed]

Thank you Randy and Rodman for the detailed response.

Below is a datalog road dyno for my WRX as it sits right now. TD04L-13T dyno graphs arent anything that haven't been seen a million times on this forum but it's useful for comparison.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2n7JPNb]

Randy, I think you and I have gone down the same turbo research worm hole except 10 years apart lol. I am willing to give up some spool down low, but the HL seems like it takes away too much. Would the H be much better? I spoke with Kinugawa via email inquiring about their HL turbo because they listed it as having a 52mm / 44.2mm turbine wheel (TD04H) instead of a 52mm / 45.6mm. (TD04HL). They have corrected their website to the 45.6 but they also mentioned that they can do the H wheel if I need it.

This WRX is mostly used as a fun car / occasional autocross. What you mentioned above is spot on. ~2500 spool but runs out of steam at 5000. I'd like to if possible keep the spool at or below 3000 and extend the top end another 500+rpm. I believe either the H wheel or a clipped L wheel would work for me, but I am not entirely sure. Right now, I don't even hit my target 17psi unless it's cold out. When warm outside, I can only hit 15psi taper to like 11.

I will be of course swapping injectors and fuel pump. Everything else supporting I already have. I have not heard of the HD thrust bearing with larger shaft diameter. I will do more research on this and how it can apply to other variants of the TD04.

[tomacGTi]

The one thing I will say, although it seems the "bigger" turbo takes away down low, it's deceiving.

I don't remember if I have any dyno plots on the internet (I'm sure there are in the STi cams threads) but look at D-Rodman's. If you compare RPM to your lines, there is more almost everywhere except right off 2000 RPM. It seems laggy but the power comes on much more so and carries further, especially once the turbo gets into its efficiency area.

If you are going the 19t route, I wouldn't even bother with the H wheel and clipping. You are just wasting energy that could be compressing air to compensate for the mismatch. Yes, there will be a slight bit of lag but my car pulls all the way to the rev limiter and hits like a ton of bricks at torque peak (~3700) and HP peak (~5700). By then, the stock TD04 is a hair drier. Frankly, readjusting my shift points and just not lugging the car/going WOT below 3k made up for it.

I don't autocross and do drive hard from time to time. I will admit, my days of hooning around aren't necessarily behind me but I don't drive like a pissed off teenager anymore. My setup is a lot of fun merging onto the highway and having enough grunt to get into a lot of trouble. The only time the spool is an issue is if I get lazy shifting. The rest of the time it's not that big of a deal (to me, at least).

In the end, you know your needs. If I could have found a small 16g for the price I got this turbo for years ago, I would have gone that route. They have very much the same characteristics but the 16g has much more potential up top.

Some other options:

https://www.flatironstuning.com/ihi-vf48-hi-flow

https://turboturbos.com/products/vf3...13227774050374

http://hillcountryforcedinductions.com/

-Randy

[gunshed]

Originally Posted by tomacGTi

The one thing I will say, although it seems the "bigger" turbo takes away down low, it's deceiving.

I don't remember if I have any dyno plots on the internet (I'm sure there are in the STi cams threads) but look at D-Rodman's. If you compare RPM to your lines, there is more almost everywhere except right off 2000 RPM. It seems laggy but the power comes on much more so and carries further, especially once the turbo gets into its efficiency area.

I agree, but I think it is hard to compare numbers from a mustang dyno to street datalog dyno. They could easily be 10% or more off. I was mostly looking at the shape of the torque curve to try and tell when spool is starting. I would guess Rodman spools around 3200-3300 but he has a JDM engine.

I don't quite need power up to the rev limiter. I would like it of course, but I can't have low and high. I also own a C6 Z06 that satisfies all my power needs. This EJ205 will blow up long before coming close to an LS7 lol. The lightweight awd nature of the WRX makes it so much fun to come out of tight corners. Im around 2780 lbs atm. My stock turbo is leaking exhaust probably due to the flange crack it has and I just want to replace it with something slightly better up top. 20-30whp more (compared to pre turbo crack) would be perfect. That is my current dilemma.

I'll check out Socalporting, thanks for the tip. I was also recommended Turbolab of America, it seems they both do similar work.

[Vtwrx04]

If you can deal with a little down time you might consider sending your td04 to Socalporting for a rebuild and upgrade. You should be able to get the best of both worlds. Check out their website!

[K3rm1tth3fr0g]

Arashi turbos are crap.

Turbolab will likely not reply to you.

Get a vf34 if you can, otherwise I'd likely get a 16g. The vf34 will respond very well between shifts.

A 7cm 16GXT will spool pretty nice, not as well as your TD04 or other tiny turbos, but it is still pretty small. The 34 will crush the 16g in response between shifts/once in boost however.

Id email turbo turbos if you want one.

But remember, the more boost you are pushing at low RPM, the more stress your bearings has to endure. These motors like to be revved out a bit.

[ThakurA]

Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g

Arashi turbos are crap.

Turbolab will likely not reply to you.

Get a vf34 if you can, otherwise I'd likely get a 16g. The vf34 will respond very well between shifts.

A 7cm 16GXT will spool pretty nice, not as well as your TD04 or other tiny turbos, but it is still pretty small. The 34 will crush the 16g in response between shifts/once in boost however.

Id email turbo turbos if you want one.

But remember, the more boost you are pushing at low RPM, the more stress your bearings has to endure. These motors like to be revved out a bit.

Another option is a Mamba 21t turbo based on tdo4hl-19t housing. Bigger turbine wheel

[D-Rodman]

I do have functional avcs, the Arashi TD04HL 19t is livelier and stronger than my stock TD04HL was, across the board, also more responsive and stronger than I remember my stage 2 usdm TD04L. Off the line in first gear hits hard at 3000 rpm and goes strong to 7000 rpm. In 5th gear on the highway at 70mph requires no changing gears and responds like a naturally aspirated engine. The stock TD04HL stage 2 tuned woke up good around 27-2800rpm but not as strong as the modified TD04HL 19T. Power band was a little narrower also compared to the modified TD04HL 19t.

As to Arashi turbos been garbage, I guess when compared to high end turbos. I’m boosting mine to 19psi for a year, so far so good. It’s a $700 turbo, I’m satisfied with its performance, specifically considering its price and for my daily driver duty. Would I install an Arashi turbo if I was looking for more power, for track use ? Perhaps not. I feel like I’m getting my money’s worth and then some. If I get 70,000 miles out of it and it is garbage then I will not be upset whatsoever. I’m terms of performance it definitely delivers, I wouldn’t be afraid to admit it if I felt it is junk. I removed a Blouch 18g XTR from my other car after 3 months because I realized I made a mistake. I installed a vf48 after the 18g mistake. I’ve been reasonably satisfied with it but definitely requires changing driving habits after zipping around with the TD04HL. I may take the vf48 out and install a vf34 hoping it responds closer to what the TD04HL does. I know the vf34 will not be as responsive as the modified TD04HL 19T but I expect it to be livelier than my SoCal ported vf48. My Arashi will sit in place till it dies.

I should also mention fuel economy is pretty good with the Arashi, I burn 8-10 gallons a week with a 40 mile daily commute 6 days, some running around to 711, the post office or UPS and local mountain bike riding spots. Really can’t complain. I love my Arashi.

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[K3rm1tth3fr0g]

They use knock off parts to cut costs.

Your experience is entirely anecdotal. I've heard dozens of stories to these turbos instantly blowing up, and know for a fact that they use subpar internal components during assembly.

And it's not even that much cheaper than a brand new vf48hf or vf34

As for spool vs response. I think people throw the terms around interchangeably when they are distinctly different. Spool is just the RPM/load where the turbo makes target boost. Response is how the turbo reacts once spooled up and in the power band.

Any appropriately sized bb turbo (VF34) will annihilate JB equivalents in terms of response. It's petty much all about center section.

Spool on the other hand is determined by CW, TW, trim, A/R, fuel and more.

A 34 will spool worse, but respond better than a 19t.

But yea, the 18G-XTR is a very weird turbo that does not perform well. Both the 16G-XTR and 20G-XTR make a LOT more sense.

My point is that good parts > cheap parts and if OP wants a smaller turbo than a 16G, I'd reach out to a reliable turbo builder to have one custom made - or he can roll the dice with Taiwanese knockoffs

[gunshed]

What are your thought on Kinugawa/Kamak? Very similar price and selection to Arashi. I have seen many more shares of people posting about them compared to Arashi

[K3rm1tth3fr0g]

Originally Posted by gunshed

What are your thought on Kinugawa/Kamak? Very similar price and selection to Arashi. I have seen many more shares of people posting about them compared to Arashi

Very similar stuff, different name.

Kamak makes the CHRA for a lot of these kind of brands.

[tomacGTi]

Frankly, this is the internet/forum. Anything is anecdotal unless you have firsthand experience and can back it up.

When I got my 19t, it was purchased second-hand and was built by one of the larger builders of this type of turbo in southern CA. If you search in Proven Power Bragging and 19t you can figure out who it was if you can filter through the BS. I also bought it from this forum. The person that had it before me, had it on a 2.5 and it was found it was too small for the motor. It just had dyno time and a little street time before it was put up for sale. So limited use, let's call it break-in.

When I decided on the purchase, I actually had a conversation with the builder of the turbo as well as the previous owner. That alone reassured me that I should be ok.

I'm sure the original owner had more than $700 invested in this having it built and spec'd and was just recouping their losses. That and the turbo builder had a reputation to uphold in the cutthroat world of internet thuggery. Too many variables once a finished part leaves a builder's hands to it's end user. Who knows if the end user even installed it correctly?

Fast forward to present day: nearly 10 years and almost 100k, it's still under the hood of the car and as far as I know: working fine. I'm waiting for lightning to strike at any second. As I said earlier, my car may not be the greatest example of a test mule as it leads a sedate life in comparison to others. It is well maintained and looked after: I can say that because I turn all the wrenches.

To be honest, if I had the option to go brand new with a warranty like the Arashi/Kamak/Kunigawa, I would have. The option for this style, small frame turbo being readily available didn't exist then. There were also fewer options available outside of factory take-offs, Japanese forbidden fruit, Blouch, etc and they were all expensive. The EJ205 is now also hitting 20 years old: it's all been done and for the most part, people know what works and what doesn't work.

For how much I paid and the use I've gotten out of it, I would say I've gotten my money's worth.

Once again, my .02$.

-Randy

[D-Rodman]

Kamak and Kinugawa are sister companies, Arashi is its own entity. Kamak/Kinugawa, Arashi and Tomei have some of their parts made by the same factories in Asia. One can find any of those brand turbos on eBay but that does not mean they are the same quality as $200-300 turbos for sale there. People talk about eBay turbos been crap and they probably know from experience. Before my Arashi purchase I did my homework, I could find no negative feedback on Arashi pointing to catastrophic failure. I was not going to risk my car engine because I wanted to save $500-700, I’m not afraid to spend $.
At that point I was running a factory TD04HL I was lucky to get on the last JDM ej205 I purchased. I had the typical stage 2 tune and was really liking it a lot. Over the years I had read about 19t modified TD04L turbos but always mixed feedback. Some people were satisfied, others not so much. All had been modified by one company or another, some were holding up, others failed relatively quickly. I spoke to Blouch about sending my TD04HL to have them modify it but ended up deciding to keep that turbo stock because I really liked it and didn’t want to gamble with it. That TD04HL is sitting in the Arashi box in case I need to go back to it, not for sale. My mind was set on a TD04HL 19t, I wanted to try one. The only company I could find that made the turbo I wanted to buy was Arashi. After researching and exchanging emails with Arashi I felt confident enough to pull the trigger, I’m glad I did. As expected, didn’t blow up on the dyno, it’s not smoking or rattling after a solid year of use, it delivers at 19psi like a champ. I’m pleased with my purchase, if I wasn’t I would have already moved on.
I see Arashi is making a push up market, they have the Kuro bb platform now. Based on my experience with the little Arashi Peashooter I might be tempted to give a Kuro a try. If I decide to replace the vf48 I would more than likely go for a factory vf34, I like oem quality and durability.
As to Arashi been crap, It may be that between a Garret and a clone Arashi with identical specs the garret outperforms the Arashi, some people may conclude that means the Arashi is crap. As to crap from a durability point of view, Its not hard to read about Garret or Borg&Warner turbos needing rebuild. Granted, there are more of those turbos out there and are been used at much higher power levels, therefore more wear and tear, etc.
I don’t think it is fair for somebody to come here and blanket statement that Arashi turbos are junk from hearsay he read about on the Internet.
I’m bringing my lived experience with the product to the table, no hearsay here.
Let’s see your receipts, show your dozens of examples of Arashi turbo that failed on the dyno or caused catastrophic failure. Bring on the my Arashi turbo failed proof, should be easy for you since you know of so many, lol. Today I Google searched Arashi turbo failures and the results are slim pickings, old threads.
I can show you plenty the my Garret turbo, my Blouch turbo, etc. Any turbo will eventually fail, no matter what brand it is.

The op, like me, likes his little TD04 but is curious about the 19T mod, like I was. We have two contributors here that have actual experience with a TD04 19T, one is stoaked(me), the other not as much, typical to what you’d find when researching the 19T deal. With all due respect, you are talking out of your keyboard experience with a TD04HL 19T, it may be that you know something about other turbos but here you are over your skies K, go drink some e85 and rotate your turbo, bro!
Lol, nothing personal brother, just having fun. You know I’m a 57yo guy, I’m a mature kid.


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[K3rm1tth3fr0g]

Originally Posted by D-Rodman

Kamak and Kinugawa are sister companies, Arashi is its own entity. Kamak/Kinugawa, Arashi and Tomei have some of their parts made by the same factories in Asia. One can find any of those brand turbos on eBay but that does not mean they are the same quality as $200-300 turbos for sale there. People talk about eBay turbos been crap and they probably know from experience. Before my Arashi purchase I did my homework, I could find no negative feedback on Arashi pointing to catastrophic failure. I was not going to risk my car engine because I wanted to save $500-700, I'm not afraid to spend $.
At that point I was running a factory TD04HL I was lucky to get on the last JDM ej205 I purchased. I had the typical stage 2 tune and was really liking it a lot. Over the years I had read about 19t modified TD04L turbos but always mixed feedback. Some people were satisfied, others not so much. All had been modified by one company or another, some were holding up, others failed relatively quickly. I spoke to Blouch about sending my TD04HL to have them modify it but ended up deciding to keep that turbo stock because I really liked it and didn't want to gamble with it. My mind was set on a TD04HL 19t, I wanted to try one. The only company I could find that made the turbo I wanted to buy was Arashi. After researching and exchanging emails with Arashi I felt confident enough to pull the trigger, I'm glad I did. As expected, didn't blow up on the dyno, it's not smoking or rattling after a solid year of use, it delivers at 19psi like a champ. I'm pleased with my purchase, if I wasn't I would have already moved on.
I see Arashi is making a push up market, they have the Kuro bb platform now. Based on my experience with the little Arashi I might be tempted to give a Kuro a try. If I decide to replace the vf48 I would more than likely go for a factory vf34, I like oem quality and durability.
As to Arashi been crap, It may be that between a Garret and a clone Arashi with identical specs the garret outperforms the Arashi, some people may conclude that means the Arashi is crap. As to crap from a durability point of view, Its not hard to read about Garret or Borg&Warner turbos needing rebuild. Granted, there are more of those turbos out there and are been used at much higher power levels, therefore more wear and tear, etc.
I don't think it is fair for somebody to come here and blanket statement that Arashi turbos are junk from hearsay he read about on the Internet.
I'm bringing my lived experience with the product to the table, no hearsay here.
Let's see your receipts, show your dozens of examples of Arashi turbo that failed on the dyno or caused catastrophic failure. Bring on the my Arashi turbo failed proof, should be easy for you since you know of so many, lol.
Then I'll show you the my Garret turbo, my Blouch turbo, etc. Any turbo can fail, no matter what brand it is.


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I am not saying your experience is invalid. Just that it is one piece of the puzzle, and isn't indicative of everyone's experience.

I said I have seen dozens of "these turbos" fail, referring to knock offs in general by the likes of Mamba, Kinu, Arashi, etc. I was not speaking in regard to a specific knock in brand in particular.

I see the vast majority of these failure posted on Facebook in the Subaru tuning/mechanic pages I am apart of. I will try and search out a few, but I may have to post screenshots vs links because the groups are private IIRC.

I certainly understand why you went with Arashi given they were the only company making a 19t that you can just bolt on straight away, but for anything larger than that, you are pretty darn close in price to the name brand stuff from Blouch or similar (made in the US with a warranty), that there really isn't much benefit to the knock off stuff, unless it comes in a specific configuration that you need which appeared to be your use case.

So to me, these higher-end budget turbos fall in kind of a weird spot where they don't make a whole lot of sense in the vast majority of cases because they don't really even save you that much money. I have also heard some less than positive things about warranty honoring, which can be the case for any company, but from the experiences I have heard, they can and will tout a warranty and then refuse to honor it in many cases.

Like an Arashi 18g is $979 when a BPT 18g is $1250. In my opinion, for that difference in price, getting a known quantity is a no brainer.

[D-Rodman]

Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g

I am not saying your experience is invalid. Just that it is one piece of the puzzle, and isn't indicative of everyone's experience.

I said I have seen dozens of "these turbos" fail, referring to knock offs in general by the likes of Mamba, Kinu, Arashi, etc. I was not speaking in regard to a specific knock in brand in particular.

I see the vast majority of these failure posted on Facebook in the Subaru tuning/mechanic pages I am apart of. I will try and search out a few, but I may have to post screenshots vs links because the groups are private IIRC.

I certainly understand why you went with Arashi given they were the only company making a 19t that you can just bolt on straight away, but for anything larger than that, you are pretty darn close in price to the name brand stuff from Blouch or similar (made in the US with a warranty), that there really isn't much benefit to the knock off stuff, unless it comes in a specific configuration that you need which appeared to be your use case.

So to me, these higher-end budget turbos fall in kind of a weird spot where they don't make a whole lot of sense in the vast majority of cases because they don't really even save you that much money. I have also heard some less than positive things about warranty honoring, which can be the case for any company, but from the experiences I have heard, they can and will tout a warranty and then refuse to honor it in many cases.

Like an Arashi 18g is $979 when a BPT 18g is $1250. In my opinion, for that difference in price, getting a known quantity is a no brainer.

You are 100% right about this so called higher end cheap turbos falling just short price wise from brands that have a better known reputation. And I would buy a Blouch 16g XT before it’s Arashi clone, just because of many of the points you make.
If I had a higher hp goal for my daily driver I would probably want a vf34, and who knows, I’m complete idiot sometimes, I’m capable of waking up one day and decide I want to try something else even if what I have now is perfectly good and practical. If I had to rebuild my VF48 I wouldn’t be ordering Kamak/Kinugawa parts, I’d buy a Mellet CHRA or a brand new vf34. I don’t disagree with you about subpar low quality knock off parts.
There are probably a handful of guys today thinking, I really want a performance peashooter turbo, ok maybe one guy in the Subaru world but he is conflicted, he keeps thinking he’d rather have a 16g XT if it only spooled like his TD04.


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[benflynn]

How about u bring on some proof that they are worth anything at all.

A used Garrett in need of a rebuild is twice the turbo of anything built from arashi or what ever. I have been building from scratch and rebuilding turbos since long before these garbage turbos came on the market.
Who remembers t3/t4 turbos glued together?

[benflynn]

Also, to the original point, anyone who did get a 19t still running a 19t? It’s the hot side that’s the issue on the tiny turbos. I can build you an oem 19t with a big ol thrust kit but I’d be ashamed of what I had created.

[D-Rodman]

I don’t work for Arashi, I’m just a customer who purchased a peashooter TD04HL 19t for my daily driver and couldn’t be happier with my purchase. My apologies that you’ve had to endure the shame of having to share keystrokes on this page. I hope you can recover quickly and find great joy on your righteous life journey.


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[benflynn]

Apology accepted, now u might catch a stock turbo Volvo from 02 with that 19t, u won’t cause ur 19t is about a half mile farther from the exhaust valves than on a Volvo.