what do I need to hit 250whp?

juvenescence · 10-05-2009, 11:11 PM

Yeah, I'm probably going to get bashed for this, but oh well. I still would like for some informative posts though.

1. HP at the WHEELS (whp) or hp at the CRANK (chp)?
WHP

2. What type of dyno are you going to be shooting for this number on?
Dynojet?

3. If possible, tell us what shop it is. Someone may know how high or low that particular dyno reads.
Either Innovative or Precision, they seem to be the closest ones that are recommended.

4. Where do you live? If not a well known city, what is the elevation?
NYC

5. What kind of gas will you be using? (octane level)
93

6. Are you opposed to a FMIC?
I'd prefer not to install an FMIC at this point.

Currently, the mods that my car has at this point are:
-AEM short ram
-Gutted stock uppipe
-Megan downpipe
-SRS 3" catback.

What might be the next upgrade(s) I should go for in order to achieve that number?

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Jett_WRX · 10-05-2009, 11:13 PM

vf39?

Defiant Autospeed · 10-05-2009, 11:15 PM

On a 4EAT you will need a little more than a 5MT so...

TD05-16G 7cm
565cc injectors
pump
STI tmic
up pipe
turboback
tune for @16PSI. No need to run more than that for this power level.

There is a VERY high likelyhood someone is going to come in talking about their stage 2 car making over 250whp. Ignore them, as they are likely not taking into account (or even bothering to read) that you have an automatic, or they have a 2.5L motor, or they simply are speaking out of their hind 1/4s

Your 2.0L motor wont hit 250 or anywhere near it on the stock turbo without meth injection, a big intercooler and a LOT of boost.

Skip a VFxx series turbo as they are sluggish to spool compared to the mitsu based units, with an automatic you want every bit of response that you can get out of the car. I would also suggest having your exh manifold and whatever turbo you get ported/polished. Normally I would suggest a better designed aftermarket up pipe, but for this power level goal, there is no need for it. Save your money there.

rexman2002 · 10-05-2009, 11:16 PM

vf23/30/34/39

Defiant Autospeed · 10-05-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexman2002

vf23/30/34/39

The VF23 is a vastly different performing turbo than the 30/34/39/43/48 which are all very close to identical.

rexman2002 · 10-05-2009, 11:26 PM

yes, but wouldn't he be able to still hit his goal of ~250whp with the vf23 on a dyno jet. Dynojests are generally higher reading dynos. My car dyno'd at 230whp-240 on one (tdo4 @16psi), mt car though.

bugeye4life · 10-05-2009, 11:26 PM

i don't know much about 4 eat but don't you think it could be done on stock turbo?

Defiant Autospeed · 10-05-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexman2002

yes, but wouldn't he be able to still hit his goal of ~250whp with the vf23 on a dyno jet. Dynojests are generally higher reading dynos. My car dyno'd at 235whp-240 on one (tdo4 @16psi), mt car though.

Oh easily. The VF23 makes more power than the 30/34/39/43/etc.

I was just pointing out the difference. Some people would read that and think they were all the same.

I recommended the 16G over it as they are much faster responding turbos, and he has the mushiness of the auto tranny already killing him.

Jubert69 · 10-05-2009, 11:29 PM

On a dynojet, I think a 39 would be sufficient. But I never dyno'd my car when it was a 4EAT so Defiant Autospeed would know best since he has one.

constantino7491 · 10-05-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeye4life

i don't know much about 4 eat but don't you think it could be done on stock turbo?

not w/o meth and a lot of other mods that wouldn't be what i think you're looking for (notice i say I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING FOR because that's the impression your post left on me, i might be wrong though)

Jubert69 · 10-05-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeye4life

i don't know much about 4 eat but don't you think it could be done on stock turbo?

From my experience of swapping my 4EAT to 5MT, the power change is drastic. It's a totally different car.

Defiant Autospeed · 10-05-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubert69

On a dynojet, I think a 39 would be sufficient. But I never dyno'd my car when it was a 4EAT so Defiant Autospeed would know best since he has one.

30 would definitely be sufficient.

Its not about that. Its about how sluggish the IHI turbos are compared to the Mitsu based 16G. They both make about the same peak power. The 16G is just a lot snappier. On a 4EAT, he is going to need that.

Gigabelova · 10-05-2009, 11:34 PM

I would say at least a big 16g to get the 250 whp goal on a low reading load bearing dyno.

Defiant Autospeed · 10-05-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubert69

From my experience of swapping my 4EAT to 5MT, the power change is drastic. It's a totally different car.

Unless you do a TQ converter

Stage 2 WRX 5MT VS Stage 2 WRX 4eat =

riiiiiiiiight

Stage 2 WRX 5MT VS Stage 1 WRX 4EAT with a TQ converter=

Combine a TQ converter and valve body upgrade and the 4EAT will demolish the 5MT mod for mod. Not even a contest.

And for the record, I dont have a 4EAT. I just know a bunch about making them go

Right now I have a 3MT. Here is how I shift 1-3-5 I have no 2, and cant get it into 4th

But there is a JDM V7 6MT on its way as soon as I phone the CC payment in

magicstop · 10-05-2009, 11:47 PM

With a vf34, 565cc injectors, walbro pump, txs tmic, txs up pipe, cobb tbe, txs shorty air intake, and a utec, I'm putting down right around 300 whp on a mustang dyno. So, I'd think with vf3x and supporting mods, 25o whp on a dynojet would be easy. Even for a 4eat. No?

Jubert69 · 10-05-2009, 11:51 PM

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?p=8311201
VF39, Dyno Dynamics, 91 Octane

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1235979
I'd take a look at this thread. Lots of mods done, but I'm really confused on why it's reading so low.

EDIT: TC messes with dyno numbers

Mobius118 · 10-05-2009, 11:58 PM

I would suggest a TC, as that is the only mod I don't have, and am still sluggish like all hell running low 15s/high 14s in the qtr mile. You just can't launch a 4EAT with a VF turbo unless you get a TC. It sure pulls, but very sluggish and I would second the suggestion for the 16G (also heard good things about the HTA68, but never seen what one can do). I will tell you this, that when I got stage 2 with an STI TMIC and swapped my turbo inlet to the silicone one, the car was crazy fast off the line. I was running around a 13.8 in the qtr.

Defiant Autospeed · 10-06-2009, 12:40 AM

I have seen a bone stock 02 wagon with nothing more than a tq converter pull 13.8 s (ok so technically that means it wasnt bone stock, but you get my point)

What does that tell you about what a TQ converter can do?

xsnapshot · 10-06-2009, 12:59 AM

Defiant- In your experience how much drive train loss does an aftermarket TC recoup...if any?

I'm running a stage 2 4EAT/EWG/3-port/E85 on 21 psi tapering to 14.5 at redline. I've never been dynoed, but am thinking about the TC for fun's sake. I'd like to think im about equal with a standard off the shelf stage 2 02-05 wrx in power right now.

4eatFp68 · 10-06-2009, 01:25 AM

I've got a 4eat and Im making 255whp and 248tq. My car is open source tuned around 16-17psi. My mod's include:
Hta68 turbo, 650cc injectors, 255 fuel pump, turboxs tmic, turboxs catted stealth exhaust, individia uppipe and 3-port GMS and Hayden 403 tranny cooler.

Looking into doing the tq converter and valve body, next spring.

iluvdrt · 10-06-2009, 02:31 AM

I am wondering if the TC and VB would be that noticable on an NA subie?

tallterrorr · 10-06-2009, 08:36 AM

250 whp is easy to achieve... with a CIVIC!!!!1

penrod · 10-06-2009, 08:39 AM

I'm finding it difficult to find much info on modding a 4EAT (2008 WRX/ 2009 2.5i). Where can I get more info on the TC upgrade?

cost?
how it works?
what difference it makes on an otherwise stock car?

I did a search, but it seems like every single post has the words 'torque converter' in them.

Thank you for your help.

SS/GNX · 10-06-2009, 08:49 AM

I may not know ***** about Subies but I do know that a torque converter in an automatic turbo car can make a HUGE difference.

Some turbos require more stall to get them to spool up properly. Again, not knowing what the hell stall is in a 4EAT, I couldn't begin to tell you what stall you would need, nor do I know what diameter the stock converter is and the availability of smaller diameter converters.

In my GN setup, I bought a 3200 stall 9.5" converter and ran that with the stock GN turbo! Tires would IGNITE off the line, it was actually too much stall for that little turbo. Then bought a ball bearing 61mm turbo and everything was PERFECT. = )

scubywagon · 10-06-2009, 08:53 AM

with proper engine management, vf39 or 16g(i also agree 16g is the better choice) upgraded fuel pump and supporting injectors you should be able to get there. My one question about the torque convertor upgrade would be the cost effectiveness of doing that vs. doing a 5spd swap. Not sure on that as I have a manual so I've never even thought about looking into the cost of the torque convertor or vavle body upgrade.....my 04 wagon with vf39,turbo back, intake, sti pinks,fuel pump, front mount and utec put down 290hp/280tq when it still had the 2 liter in it.

10-05-2009, 11:11 PM	#1
juvenescence Scooby Newbie Member#: 210241 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NYC	what do I need to hit 250whp? Yeah, I'm probably going to get bashed for this, but oh well. I still would like for some informative posts though. 1. HP at the WHEELS (whp) or hp at the CRANK (chp)? WHP 2. What type of dyno are you going to be shooting for this number on? Dynojet? 3. If possible, tell us what shop it is. Someone may know how high or low that particular dyno reads. Either Innovative or Precision, they seem to be the closest ones that are recommended. 4. Where do you live? If not a well known city, what is the elevation? NYC 5. What kind of gas will you be using? (octane level) 93 6. Are you opposed to a FMIC? I'd prefer not to install an FMIC at this point. Currently, the mods that my car has at this point are: -AEM short ram -Gutted stock uppipe -Megan downpipe -SRS 3" catback. What might be the next upgrade(s) I should go for in order to achieve that number? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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10-05-2009, 11:13 PM	#2
Jett_WRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 136483 Join Date: Jan 2007 Chapter/Region: W. Canada Location: Calgary, Alberta Vehicle: 2007 WRX VF-39'd 05' 600RR 08' Ducati 1098	vf39?

10-05-2009, 11:15 PM	#3
Defiant Autospeed Vendor Member#: 155450 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now! Vehicle: 2007 FXT WRB	On a 4EAT you will need a little more than a 5MT so... TD05-16G 7cm 565cc injectors pump STI tmic up pipe turboback tune for @16PSI. No need to run more than that for this power level. There is a VERY high likelyhood someone is going to come in talking about their stage 2 car making over 250whp. Ignore them, as they are likely not taking into account (or even bothering to read) that you have an automatic, or they have a 2.5L motor, or they simply are speaking out of their hind 1/4s Your 2.0L motor wont hit 250 or anywhere near it on the stock turbo without meth injection, a big intercooler and a LOT of boost. Skip a VFxx series turbo as they are sluggish to spool compared to the mitsu based units, with an automatic you want every bit of response that you can get out of the car. I would also suggest having your exh manifold and whatever turbo you get ported/polished. Normally I would suggest a better designed aftermarket up pipe, but for this power level goal, there is no need for it. Save your money there.

10-05-2009, 11:16 PM	#4
rexman2002 Scooby Specialist Member#: 140244 Join Date: Feb 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago Vehicle: 2002 bugeye still rippin' hard	vf23/30/34/39

10-05-2009, 11:26 PM	#6
rexman2002 Scooby Specialist Member#: 140244 Join Date: Feb 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago Vehicle: 2002 bugeye still rippin' hard	yes, but wouldn't he be able to still hit his goal of ~250whp with the vf23 on a dyno jet. Dynojests are generally higher reading dynos. My car dyno'd at 230whp-240 on one (tdo4 @16psi), mt car though.

10-05-2009, 11:26 PM	#7
bugeye4life Scooby Specialist Member#: 146328 Join Date: Apr 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: allentown PA Vehicle: 07 sti username is now invalid	i don't know much about 4 eat but don't you think it could be done on stock turbo?

10-05-2009, 11:29 PM	#9
Jubert69 Scooby Specialist Member#: 167739 Join Date: Dec 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: CT Vehicle: 15 Forester NA dat gas mileage	On a dynojet, I think a 39 would be sufficient. But I never dyno'd my car when it was a 4EAT so Defiant Autospeed would know best since he has one.

10-05-2009, 11:34 PM	#13
Gigabelova Scooby Specialist Member#: 81409 Join Date: Feb 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX STi Platinum Silver Metallic	I would say at least a big 16g to get the 250 whp goal on a low reading load bearing dyno.

10-05-2009, 11:47 PM	#15
magicstop Scooby Specialist Member#: 206853 Join Date: Mar 2009 Chapter/Region: RMIC Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon TXS Stage 4	With a vf34, 565cc injectors, walbro pump, txs tmic, txs up pipe, cobb tbe, txs shorty air intake, and a utec, I'm putting down right around 300 whp on a mustang dyno. So, I'd think with vf3x and supporting mods, 25o whp on a dynojet would be easy. Even for a 4eat. No?

10-05-2009, 11:51 PM	#16
Jubert69 Scooby Specialist Member#: 167739 Join Date: Dec 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: CT Vehicle: 15 Forester NA dat gas mileage	http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?p=8311201 VF39, Dyno Dynamics, 91 Octane http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1235979 I'd take a look at this thread. Lots of mods done, but I'm really confused on why it's reading so low. EDIT: TC messes with dyno numbers

10-05-2009, 11:58 PM	#17
Mobius118 Scooby Newbie Member#: 159098 Join Date: Sep 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Gurnee, IL / Madison, WI Vehicle: 2005 LGT Ltd 5AT OBP 2003 WRX Stg4 PSM- RIP	I would suggest a TC, as that is the only mod I don't have, and am still sluggish like all hell running low 15s/high 14s in the qtr mile. You just can't launch a 4EAT with a VF turbo unless you get a TC. It sure pulls, but very sluggish and I would second the suggestion for the 16G (also heard good things about the HTA68, but never seen what one can do). I will tell you this, that when I got stage 2 with an STI TMIC and swapped my turbo inlet to the silicone one, the car was crazy fast off the line. I was running around a 13.8 in the qtr.

10-06-2009, 12:40 AM	#18
Defiant Autospeed Vendor Member#: 155450 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now! Vehicle: 2007 FXT WRB	I have seen a bone stock 02 wagon with nothing more than a tq converter pull 13.8 s (ok so technically that means it wasnt bone stock, but you get my point) What does that tell you about what a TQ converter can do?

10-06-2009, 12:59 AM	#19
xsnapshot Scooby Newbie Member#: 170973 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: nashville Vehicle: 2004 WRX 4EAT PSM	Defiant- In your experience how much drive train loss does an aftermarket TC recoup...if any? I'm running a stage 2 4EAT/EWG/3-port/E85 on 21 psi tapering to 14.5 at redline. I've never been dynoed, but am thinking about the TC for fun's sake. I'd like to think im about equal with a standard off the shelf stage 2 02-05 wrx in power right now.

10-06-2009, 01:25 AM	#20
4eatFp68 Scooby Newbie Member#: 216913 Join Date: Jul 2009 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Renton, WA Vehicle: 2002 WRX AUTO WRB	I've got a 4eat and Im making 255whp and 248tq. My car is open source tuned around 16-17psi. My mod's include: Hta68 turbo, 650cc injectors, 255 fuel pump, turboxs tmic, turboxs catted stealth exhaust, individia uppipe and 3-port GMS and Hayden 403 tranny cooler. Looking into doing the tq converter and valve body, next spring.

10-06-2009, 02:31 AM	#21
iluvdrt Scooby Specialist Member#: 46248 Join Date: Oct 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: DRTY Autosports Oceanside, Ca Vehicle: 82 Brat Tan	I am wondering if the TC and VB would be that noticable on an NA subie?

10-06-2009, 08:36 AM	#22
tallterrorr * Banned * Member#: 225323 Join Date: Sep 2009 Chapter/Region: SCIC Vehicle: 2000 CIVIC Neon/Lime Green w/stripes	250 whp is easy to achieve... with a CIVIC!!!!1

10-06-2009, 08:39 AM	#23
penrod Scooby Newbie Member#: 218495 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: FLA West Coast Vehicle: 2008 WRX Wagon 4EAT Black	I'm finding it difficult to find much info on modding a 4EAT (2008 WRX/ 2009 2.5i). Where can I get more info on the TC upgrade? cost? how it works? what difference it makes on an otherwise stock car? I did a search, but it seems like every single post has the words 'torque converter' in them. Thank you for your help.

10-06-2009, 08:49 AM	#24
SS/GNX Scooby Newbie Member#: 216014 Join Date: Jul 2009 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Chicago's South Suburbs Vehicle: 2005 WRX STi CGM	I may not know ***** about Subies but I do know that a torque converter in an automatic turbo car can make a HUGE difference. Some turbos require more stall to get them to spool up properly. Again, not knowing what the hell stall is in a 4EAT, I couldn't begin to tell you what stall you would need, nor do I know what diameter the stock converter is and the availability of smaller diameter converters. In my GN setup, I bought a 3200 stall 9.5" converter and ran that with the stock GN turbo! Tires would IGNITE off the line, it was actually too much stall for that little turbo. Then bought a ball bearing 61mm turbo and everything was PERFECT. = )

10-06-2009, 08:53 AM	#25
scubywagon Scooby Newbie Member#: 65967 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Florida Vehicle: 2004 WRX WGN 2.5 Java Black Pearl	with proper engine management, vf39 or 16g(i also agree 16g is the better choice) upgraded fuel pump and supporting injectors you should be able to get there. My one question about the torque convertor upgrade would be the cost effectiveness of doing that vs. doing a 5spd swap. Not sure on that as I have a manual so I've never even thought about looking into the cost of the torque convertor or vavle body upgrade.....my 04 wagon with vf39,turbo back, intake, sti pinks,fuel pump, front mount and utec put down 290hp/280tq when it still had the 2 liter in it.