The NASIOC Oil Selection Guide

[djxpress]

I'm going to be submitting my first oil sample (3rd oil change 9000 miles) to Blackstone. I'm curious if I should get a TBN? The sample is a Subaru Synthetic 5W-30 (switching to Motul). Does anyone know what the baseline TBN is for this oil?

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[KansasCityGT]

I've been reading on this forum ever since I've been thinking about buying a turbo Subaru. I tend to be the kind of person that over thinks things and reads A LOT, though I may not always understand the details, I try my best and ask clear questions once I can't find the answers myself. I come from a performance background revolving around Mustangs. I've been on SVTperformance and other varying forums. I have a practical love for Subaru, the Forester specifically. So, with that I decided on an XT. After doing a lot of reason, considering the data and my end goal and budget for this virgin 2004 Java Black Forester XT, I decided on Shell Rotella T6 engine oil.
I'm still a little questionable about the Heavy Duty T6 vs the normal T6. But I feel that the T6 5w30 is a step in the right direction.

There is a lot of great info in this thread.

-Gianni

[Jhayes71]

Originally Posted by KansasCityGT

I've been reading on this forum ever since I've been thinking about buying a turbo Subaru. I tend to be the kind of person that over thinks things and reads A LOT, though I may not always understand the details, I try my best and ask clear questions once I can't find the answers myself. I come from a performance background revolving around Mustangs. I've been on SVTperformance and other varying forums. I have a practical love for Subaru, the Forester specifically. So, with that I decided on an XT. After doing a lot of reason, considering the data and my end goal and budget for this virgin 2004 Java Black Forester XT, I decided on Shell Rotella T6 engine oil.
I'm still a little questionable about the Heavy Duty T6 vs the normal T6. But I feel that the T6 5w30 is a step in the right direction.

There is a lot of great info in this thread.

-Gianni

My wife drives a 15 XT, I put Motul 5w40 in it and she started getting about 3mpg less and it was much noisier, switched to ppp 5w30 and it is much happier. It is bone stock. I use the motul 5w40 in my modified wrx (fa20) and I love it.

[M0S3S]

Originally Posted by Jhayes71

My wife drives a 15 XT, I put Motul 5w40 in it and she started getting about 3mpg less and it was much noisier, switched to ppp 5w30 and it is much happier. It is bone stock. I use the motul 5w40 in my modified wrx (fa20) and I love it.

No problems running Motul 8100 X-cess 5w40 here. Engine is entirely stock.

[jdidtht]

Originally Posted by nathanielbclark

Thanks for this. Just checked my oil to see it was bone dry, I have regular oil changes, did my guy forget to refill, I can't believe it used all the oil in there in less than 2 months?

T6 in my stage 2 protune at JM dp, intake, ebcs eats it like water. Pennzoil platinum it does not

[EngineHacker]

Liqui Moly 2332 Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40

• Cheaper (per quart) than RT6
• Formulation better than RT6 (It's a Group IV PAO)
  
• Comes in 5L bottles (enough left over for 2000mile top off)
• Less consumption than RT6
• Easily found on Amazon
• Bottles come with an extendable pour spout.
• Pairs very well with Liqui Moly MoS2 or Liqui Moly Ceratec (engine revs much smoother with either product)
• Can last 5k+ if you are that type of person.
• No oil in its price bracket is superior in any measurable way.
• Comparable with PAO oils 2-3x more expensive

[fredrik94087]

Originally Posted by EngineHacker

Liqui Moly 2332 Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40

• Cheaper (per quart) than RT6
• Formulation better than RT6 (It's a Group IV PAO)
  
• Comes in 5L bottles (enough left over for 2000mile top off)
• Less consumption than RT6
• Easily found on Amazon
• Bottles come with an extendable pour spout.
• Pairs very well with Liqui Moly MoS2 or Liqui Moly Ceratec (engine revs much smoother with either product)
• Can last 5k+ if you are that type of person.
• No oil in its price bracket is superior in any measurable way.
• Comparable with PAO oils 2-3x more expensive

Thanks for this information.

I just read the pdf. It is an A3/B4 oil. At least it is the correct spec versus T6.

[dshowell]

What a fantastic article! I need to read through it about 5 more times to absorb it all.

The funny thing is, I just bought a used 2014 NA Impreza from a Subaru dealership. On the maintenance paperwork, it that they changed the oil and filter and filled it with 5w30. In the maintenance manual it says only to do that as a replenishment, and then change back to 0w20 in at the next change. I am not worried about it, as I live in Colorado and things are about to heat up for spring and summer. I'll change back to 0w20 in the fall as the temps start to drop.

[EngineHacker]

Originally Posted by dshowell

What a fantastic article! I need to read through it about 5 more times to absorb it all.

The funny thing is, I just bought a used 2014 NA Impreza from a Subaru dealership. On the maintenance paperwork, it that they changed the oil and filter and filled it with 5w30. In the maintenance manual it says only to do that as a replenishment, and then change back to 0w20 in at the next change. I am not worried about it, as I live in Colorado and things are about to heat up for spring and summer. I'll change back to 0w20 in the fall as the temps start to drop.

Stick with whats in the manual for an NA car. Turbo cars are more finicky with oil's and weights. Rightly so, most folks have unshakeable faith in one brand or another. On my soul as a car guy, I can tell you that the differences brands do matter. Once you tear down a few engines that have run on the factory stuff or the cheap mass produced stuff, it becomes very clear that the tiny differences add up. Anyhow, for your NA car it wont matter much. Your engine doesn't have the same heat cycling properties as a turbo motor and quite honestly, it will never be able to push even the most mediocre brand beyond its design limits. If you were going to be tearing down the engine later I would suggest going with something beyond mediocre. However, very few people bother with the trouble and expense of modding an NA Subaru motor so...save yourself the money and time and just get what ever is on sale and is the correct weight for your climate/engine.

[carlos.danger]

Originally Posted by EngineHacker

Stick with whats in the manual for an NA car. Turbo cars are more finicky with oil's and weights. Rightly so, most folks have unshakeable faith in one brand or another. On my soul as a car guy, I can tell you that the differences brands do matter. Once you tear down a few engines that have run on the factory stuff or the cheap mass produced stuff, it becomes very clear that the tiny differences add up. Anyhow, for your NA car it wont matter much. Your engine doesn't have the same heat cycling properties as a turbo motor and quite honestly, it will never be able to push even the most mediocre brand beyond its design limits. If you were going to be tearing down the engine later I would suggest going with something beyond mediocre. However, very few people bother with the trouble and expense of modding an NA Subaru motor so...save yourself the money and time and just get what ever is on sale and is the correct weight for your climate/engine.

Is the factory subaru oil that bad?

[EngineHacker]

Originally Posted by carlos.danger

Is the factory subaru oil that bad?

It's actually quite good. However, once you start pushing more boost and driving the car harder, the heat puts a lot of stress on the oil. When the mods pile in, more stress is imparted on the oil. On a completely stock car that is not driven hard, the factory stuff is fine. But seriously, who keeps one of these cars completely stock? And yes, a tune means its not stock.

[carlos.danger]

Do you recommend different oils for different hp setups?

[EngineHacker]

Originally Posted by carlos.danger

Do you recommend different oils for different hp setups?

No, it depends on a lot of things: climate, air quality, engine specs, driving habits, additive package, base oil...it goes on and on. This is why 99.9% of oil threads are completely worthless to the transient reader. People try to compare preferences but the complexity of the comparison is just unreal. One guy will say M1 burns like water another will say T6 is elixir from the gods. Funny part is, most folks are correct with respect to their own setup. It is the assertions and comparisons that fail miserably.

For example, look at my suggestion above when I state Liqui Moly 2332 Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 is my preference over T6. My statement is horridly biased and completely useless to most folks because they don't know my engine, climate or diving habits. Oil analysis comparisons are also useless for the same reasons above. So what does this mean? It means oil recommendations will always be a case by case evaluation. Everyone's situation is slightly different.

Now back to your question. I can only answer your question with respect to an EJ257 generates 436whp that was both tuned and built by me. If are interested in that opinion, and through some rather large coincidence your specs, location and driving habits match mine. I suggest running
Liqui Moly 2332 Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40.

[carlos.danger]

Well goddammit, fair nuff sir.

[EngineHacker]

Originally Posted by carlos.danger

Well goddammit, fair nuff sir.

Read the first page of this thread, that pretty much says all that needs to be said on the subject. Another way to make a decision is to imagine this scenario: You car has a trunk full of bricks, you can only stay in 3rd gear for some reason, you have to drive up a 15% incline for the next 10 miles, there is an F5 tornado behind you. Choose the oil that will get you home safely

[beasti2017]

Originally Posted by EngineHacker

Liqui Moly 2332 Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40

• Cheaper (per quart) than RT6
• Formulation better than RT6 (It's a Group IV PAO)
  
• Comes in 5L bottles (enough left over for 2000mile top off)
• Less consumption than RT6
• Easily found on Amazon
• Bottles come with an extendable pour spout.
• Pairs very well with Liqui Moly MoS2 or Liqui Moly Ceratec (engine revs much smoother with either product)
• Can last 5k+ if you are that type of person.
• No oil in its price bracket is superior in any measurable way.
• Comparable with PAO oils 2-3x more expensive

This is also okay to use in a completely stock 17 STi as well right?

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by beasti2017

This is also okay to use in a completely stock 17 STi as well right?

Yes, it's a good choice if you're looking for a 5W40.

APPROVALS & RECOMMENDATIONS
APPROVALS:
ACEA A3
ACEA B4
API SM
API CF
LIQUI MOLY RECOMMENDS THIS PRODUCT FOR VEHICLES THAT NEEDS TO COMPLY THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATIONS:
BMW Longlife-98
MB 229.3
Porsche A40
VW 502 00
VW 505 00

There are also other oils more readily available that meet the above specs and builder approvals.

[beasti2017]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

Yes, it's a good choice if you're looking for a 5W40.

APPROVALS & RECOMMENDATIONS
APPROVALS:
ACEA A3
ACEA B4
API SM
API CF
LIQUI MOLY RECOMMENDS THIS PRODUCT FOR VEHICLES THAT NEEDS TO COMPLY THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATIONS:
BMW Longlife-98
MB 229.3
Porsche A40
VW 502 00
VW 505 00

There are also other oils more readily available that meet the above specs and builder approvals.

Sounds good to me! TY!

[hondaeater69]

i can't help but think... all else equal, wouldn't a 0-40 be superior to 5-30? for a high performance turbo charged engine, frankly i don't care about gas mileage, i care about my bearings and engine health. in my thinking, the 0-40 has better cold start, faster warming, and better at temp viscosity. is my thinking correct or am i missing something here?

[fredrik94087]

I am using mobil1 15w50.

Better in what way?

I have called the tech at redline about three times bugging him about their oil weights and protection. He kept telling me their 5w30 provides plenty of protection, but I just kept on using their 10w40.

Everyone cares about their bearings and engine protection...just as you

At the end of the day, unless we are talking about track duty, the oil you use may have more to do with comfort level than anything else. To that end, my 15w50 and 2500 mile OCI may seem a bit OCD, but that is my comfort level.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by fredrik94087

I am using mobil1 15w50.

Better in what way?

I have called the tech at redline about three times bugging him about their oil weights and protection. He kept telling me their 5w30 provides plenty of protection, but I just kept on using their 10w40.

Everyone cares about their bearings and engine protection...just as you

At the end of the day, unless we are talking about track duty, the oil you use may have more to do with comfort level than anything else. To that end, my 15w50 and 2500 mile OCI may seem a bit OCD, but that is my comfort level.

Red Line recommends 5W30 because the HTHS is on par with 40 grades. The HTHS of their 5W40 is similar to 50 grades. Look up the product data sheet of each oil and compare them. I provided details in a recent post in the 2015+ uoa thread.

[fredrik94087]

^^^ Thanks...I did and still went with their 10w40. using the Mobil1 15w50 because it is cheaper per fill and easier...1 jug and one quart versus one jug and 2 quarts of RL. The RL jug is 4 quarts and $47+. The mobil1 jug is 5 quarts and $27+.

Also spent some time on BITOG (lots of information...maybe too much for me to digest). I might have read 2% of everything there...maybe less.

[EngineHacker]

Originally Posted by beasti2017

This is also okay to use in a completely stock 17 STi as well right?

Yes, but if you can find something cheaper then go that route. No need to get anal retentive about oil in a stock car.

[EngineHacker]

Originally Posted by hondaeater69

i can't help but think... all else equal, wouldn't a 0-40 be superior to 5-30? for a high performance turbo charged engine, frankly i don't care about gas mileage, i care about my bearings and engine health. in my thinking, the 0-40 has better cold start, faster warming, and better at temp viscosity. is my thinking correct or am i missing something here?

A 0w-40 is not necessarily superior to a 5w-30. As a matter of fact, a 5w-40 isn't necessarily superior either. What matters is how the formulation accomplishes the viscosity transition. Expensive formulations use better polymers that have higher shear resistance. If you are worried about cold start oil flow, get an oil that has a good amount of MoS2 or ZDDP and call it a day. You wont be spinning bearing s just because oil takes too long to flow. It takes a while for boundary lubrication to burn off. I once started a freshly rebuilt engine ej257 with only assembly lube with the oil lines reversed. It idled for 5 minutes before I realized something was wrong. Oil pressure light wouldn't turn off and the engine sounded rough and bad (I am pretty sure i have it on video). I thought the bearings were shot for sure. After taking it apart, the bearings were perfect.

[hondaeater69]

Originally Posted by EngineHacker

A 0w-40 is not necessarily superior to a 5w-30. As a matter of fact, a 5w-40 isn't necessarily superior either. What matters is how the formulation accomplishes the viscosity transition. Expensive formulations use better polymers that have higher shear resistance. If you are worried about cold start oil flow, get an oil that has a good amount of MoS2 or ZDDP and call it a day. You wont be spinning bearing s just because oil takes too long to flow. It takes a while for boundary lubrication to burn off. I once started a freshly rebuilt engine ej257 with only assembly lube with the oil lines reversed. It idled for 5 minutes before I realized something was wrong. Oil pressure light wouldn't turn off and the engine sounded rough and bad (I am pretty sure i have it on video). I thought the bearings were shot for sure. After taking it apart, the bearings were perfect.

that makes sense, thanks for responding. i have an outstanding 0-40 out for uoa, i'm curious about how it held up in FL heat. reason why i asked was that i recently moved to a higher temp climate, and was considering moving to another oil (20-50 or something in that range), but then i found myself thinking about startup...

so if the 40 part of a 0-40 doesn't shear out, all else equal, wouldn't you want to run a 0-40 over a 5-40? I always hear "most engine wear occurs at startup", unless this is a misnomer....