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Old 10-04-2004, 08:19 PM   #76
Arnie
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Wojtek, I'll do some tests this week and get back to you here. I'll tie a zip tie on the piston and see what kind of travel/motion I'm getting at the strut, as well as some spring tests to see if I'm suffering from coil bind as duncan suggests. I'll also post exact ride height figures. Wojtek, are binding marks another term for wear marks such as paint being worn off where the coils contact each other?

Thanks Wojtek!
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Old 10-04-2004, 09:39 PM   #77
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duncangrant,

Do you have damping rates for any other coilovers to compare?
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Old 10-05-2004, 04:15 AM   #78
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Ohlins Road&Track if my memory serves me right is about 230/173 but this setup is WRX specifically, new STI setup on the way shortly.
JIM
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Old 10-05-2004, 08:08 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBiggly
duncangrant,
Do you have damping rates for any other coilovers to compare?
Here's what I have so far:


Damping rates are expressed as [email protected]/sec, rebound/bump unless otherwise noted.
Damping rates at one piston speed is only a small part of the picture of course.

------------
-Impreza GD-
------------

STi coilovers for model GD (STi News 2004-1)
Springs: F=60N/mm x 228 x 65, no tender; R=50Nx203x65 + 17.8Nx64x65 tender
Front 1370/770 1580/840 1690/880 1890/960
Rear 1060/570 1150/620 1240/650 1350/680

STi Coilovers GD E-type (STi News 2004-22)
Springs: F=60N/mm x 228 x 65, no tender; R=50Nx203x65 + 17.8Nx64x65 tender
Front 1500/880 1680/900 1700/950 1800/1000
Rear 1100/600 1240/650 1250/680 1300/700

STi V8 GD - not Spec-C conventional springs
Springs: 60N/50N
Front 1400/780 1580/780 1710/880 1920/940
Rear 1050/580 1150/610 1230/640 1350/680

STi GD big coil four way adj pink struts (STi News 2001-8)
F- 2320/790 2450/830 2650/870 2940/950 35N/mm spring
R- 1470/610 1530/640 1650/660 1830/700 32.4N/mm

WRX V7: Aussie oem
F 1970/516
R 1323/516

STi-V7 Aussie oem
F- 2552/807
R- 1641/612

STi-V7 USDM? oem
F- 2396/791
R- 1668/690

STi V7 RA Spec-C:
F- 1879/791 33N/mm
R- 1574/732 30N/mm

PowerStation-AST GC+GD @ pos 6 (mid setting):
Front 1027/515
Rear 1275/577

Whiteline Group-4 GC+GD min-max
Front 1100-1300/500-550
Rear 900-1070/600-650


------------
-Impreza GC-
------------

STi GC 4 way pinks (STi News 2001-8)
F- 2020/620 2170/660 2350/690 2630/750
R- 1270/580 1330/600 1450/630 1590/690

STi (S201) for GC height adj. fixed rate, large dia springs (STi News 2000-31)
F- 2746/834, 36.3N/mm spring
R- 1618/686, 32.4N/mm spring

STi Bilstein (Prodrive-WR?) soft setup for GC8 (from JapanParts.com):
F: 1860/590 34kg/cm springs
R: 1370/440 29k springs

STi 4 way adjustable (Kayaba?) for GC8 (from JapanParts.com)
F: 2460-2850/860-910 34kg/cm springs
R: 1130-1480/580-610 30k springs

STi Kayaba Rally for GC8 (from JapanParts.com)
F: 3040/1470 35kg/cm springs
R: 2040/1030 30k springs

STi Kayaba Rally for GC8 (from JapanParts.com)
F: 2250/1670 35kg/cm springs
R: 1810/1180 30k springs

STi Kayaba Track for GC8 (from JapanParts.com)
F: 4020/1200 50k springs
R: 2710/1520 48k springs

PowerStation-AST GC+GD @ pos 6 (mid setting) (from Powerstation):
F- 1027/515
R- 1275/577

Whiteline Group-4 GC+GD min-max (from Whiteline)
F- 1100-1300/500-550
R- 900-1070/600-650

Bilstein PSS9 (from Bilstein):
Front at 0,52 m/s open N 1470/1075 - closed N 2415/2215
-rescaled for 0.3 m/s open- 848/620, closed- 1393/1278 but damping is digressive so it will be greater than this @0.3m/s
-the above doesn't really make sense, maybe it should be -
-Front at 0,52 m/s open N 2215/1075 - closed N 2415/1470
-rescaled for 0.3 m/s open- 1278/620, closed- 1393/848

Duncan
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Old 10-05-2004, 12:10 PM   #80
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Cool! Thanks Duncan!
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:43 AM   #81
avs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnie
Just another general review of these coilovers.
...
Basic alignment spec:
Front camber -1.5 degrees, Toe Zero
Rear camber - 1.2 degrees, Toe Zero
Arnie, your car is an 02 wagon? did you need anything more than camber bolts to install the coilovers?
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Old 10-06-2004, 11:57 AM   #82
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Strut tops are STi Group N, front camber bolt is stock and I installed a rear camber bolt. That's it. If one wants extreme camber up front some camber plates would probably be necessary. Other than that, no other special parts needed.
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:19 AM   #83
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I want these, somebody do a group buy under 2K.
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:39 AM   #84
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Default 3 rambles:

A shop I go to is considering carrying the G4s, and was wondering how I liked them - so I threw the owner the keys. He came back astonished that the ride didn't bounce like his JICs. Anyone else in the Bay Area who wants a ride (in the passenger seat!) let me know.

I visited a good car friend (who was just in a "One-Lap" prepped STI with HKS COs) and after driving the piss out of the car on some farm roads, and playing with the adjusters for an afternoon, he said they felt like "the perfect compromise for the STI". He was really quite blown away by the overall handling and comfort. We went 110mph by some cows, with me and his dad in the back seat. Not fun.

This afternoon I was playing with a Tein EDFC demo - you get to electronically adjust the dampening and push down on a shock. I was really amazed with how little difference there was between very hardest and very softest. On the G4s one click makes a huge difference. You can tell the Flex system was designed for 2400lb cars, and "adapted" to "other" vehicles.
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Old 11-09-2004, 02:24 PM   #85
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bump.

Jim at whiteline said they were hoping to have stock in 45 days on 9/15... So.... Any news?

-Mike
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:38 PM   #86
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Hi Everyone,
We are putting all our efforts into this, and are making solid progress. However, it must be done properly, correct the first time, and can't be rushed. We are finalising drawings and design, next stage is manufacturing, testing and tuning prototypes and making any necessary changes before releasing. Would like to have more news next month.

Wojtek.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:04 PM   #87
Killian Maynard
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you a delicious bass

Question Preload Question

How low can these go before there is too much preload on the springs? I'm considering these and the Zeal B6 (very different I know). I like the fact that the ride height is adjustable separate from the spring preload/corner wieight. Could you essentially level out the ride height and drop it .5-1" or so with the group 4s without preloading the springs to a level that starts to take away the performance?

I'm seriously considering these and this has been the only snag I have caught so far. Thanks for the writeup!
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Old 11-16-2004, 08:42 PM   #88
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Default no yearly maint?

i just noticed a pdf file on whiteline's site that mentioned that the G4's don't require yearly maint.?

of less importance, are these coilovers or shocks/springs? the site talks about shocks and lists the G4's, is coilover a US term or something?

of slightly more importance, one of the reasons i was considering KW's is the stainless. are G4's somewhat resistent?


thanks
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Old 03-18-2007, 11:17 PM   #89
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...9&postcount=50

Jim how are you measuring bump travel? Droop is easy

TIA

Mike
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:45 PM   #90
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Mike,

One relatively simple, but requiring strut removal, way is:
1. measure normal ride height [RH]
2. raise car, measure full droop [FD] (and subtract any top mount compression [TMC])
3. remove strut, measure shock stroke [SS]

Bump travel = SS - [(FD - TMC - RH) * MR]
where MR is motion ratio

Hope that this helps.
Wojtek.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:14 PM   #91
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Wojtek- thanks- a couple of questions

I've got RH and FD, what exactly are they looking for w/ TMC-any deflection of the strut top? Or something else?

How are you measuring SS- the amount of piston travel?

I think the Impreza is very, very close to 1 in regards to MR

Thanks
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:12 PM   #92
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Mike,
TCM is the amount of compression or flex of the bearing relative to the mounting outer section from unloaded to loaded. As an example, we have measured the OE WRX top mount to have about 5-6mm of compression @ ~420kg (normal load per wheel). A rubberless solid top mount, such as our MaxC, has zero compression/flex

SS is simply the shaft travel, which is the difference between open and closed lengths.

Yes, most MacPherson strut cars have close to 1 MR.
MR = (d1/d2)^2
where:
d1 is the distance from spring centreline to control arm inner pivot
d2 is the distance from outer ball-joint to control arm inner pivot

Wojtek.
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:22 PM   #93
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Danke- I'm running metal tops currently so that one is easy

I'm thinking about running a slightly shorter jounce stop- so I may have an excuse to have the strut out soon - I'll measure the stroke.

Mike
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:55 PM   #94
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du bist willkommen

Be carefull of what jounce/bump stop you choose, remmembering that on most contemporary cars, this is an integral part of the suspension design. In other words, it is no longer just a 'door stop', but rather a sophisticated secondary spring with its own specific progressive rate characteristics. Go too short, and you may loose the extra support/resistance.

Just some food for thought.

Cheers,
Wojtek.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:34 AM   #95
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Motion Ratio -
Quote:
Originally Posted by WL Flatout View Post
MR = (d1/d2)^2
where:
d1 is the distance from spring centreline to control arm inner pivot
d2 is the distance from outer ball-joint to control arm inner pivot

Wojtek.

No it isn't


for a strut MR= cos(strut inclination angle) * (d1/d2)
where
d2 is the distance from the Front View Instant Centre (FVIC) to the outer ball-joint
d1 is the distance from the FVIC to the strut centre-line extended to the d2 line

d1/d2 is probably very close to 1

Its best to simply measure MR directly then you wont get misleading results by applying the wrong theory!

MR is not the square of anything, but to convert spring rate to wheel rate you multiply by MR squared.
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Old 03-20-2007, 09:31 AM   #96
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I'm ordering two different "stops" both are 52mm (~8mm shorter than oe) one is a "soft", the other a "firm"- both progressive. I'll compare them carefully to the oe ones
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:08 AM   #97
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just fiddled w/ the stock setup (have a oe strut unassembled) and came up w/ the just about identical #'s you did - this is for the front oe WRX sedan

SS= 165mm - (FD 494 - 5mm (oe TMC) - RH- 396mm); 165-93 - 72mm including 60mm of oe bump stop

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Old 03-20-2007, 05:19 PM   #98
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Hi,

duncan, you are absolutely correct!

My bad. I was indeed thinking about (actually working on) spring rates, so I had spring rates in mind. Thank you for picking this up.

Mike, sorry to have led you astray.
Good to see our numbers match.

Cheers,
Wojtek.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:57 AM   #99
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I love when vendors participate with us in our projects. This is one wonderful thing from this comunity that I like a lot.
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:19 AM   #100
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Another way to test travel is to remove the strut, remove the spring and bumpstop, put the top hat back on, put it back in the car, and then measure how much it can move from full droop to full compression.

-Mike
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