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Old 08-06-2015, 01:37 PM   #1
Subie Nic
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Default Beatrush subframe

So I bought this subframe from RSD recently. Got it all bolted up hand tight then started torquing it from the rear up. I am using Subaru's OEM torque specs. Has anyone else installed this subframe and know if the specs are the same as with the stock frame?

It seems at around 30ft lbs or so they aren't getting any tighter and are just spinning. The rear washers are starting to crease at the center where the bolt holes are. With my experience, it just feels like too much torque. I would really hate to snap a head off of one of these supplied bolts. I use a Craftsman 1/2 drive torque wrench and it has always done the job well.

Here's a photo of the frame just for reference.

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Old 08-06-2015, 02:51 PM   #2
mrsaturn7085
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The bolt threads are the same, therefore the torque is the same. Beatrush products typically come with EXCELLENT (though, Japanese) instructions. Scan and post if you me to translate.

If you are creasing washers at 30 ft-lbs you should rebuild/recalibrate your torque wrench.

It never hurts to chase the threads on the car with a tap, or at a minimum, a pick and some oil or cleaner. Especially considering the corrosion I spy on that crossmember...
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:08 PM   #3
Subie Nic
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Threads have already been cleaned up. I'll trouble shoot with another wrench for now and compare the torque with my primary to check for accuracy. The instructions are pretty straight forward, no translation needed. And yes, rust and corrosion is difficult to avoid up in NY. No more winter for this car! Thanks for the input, just needed some peace of mind.
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Old 08-06-2015, 08:44 PM   #4
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UPDATE: Well it looks like I was right all along. To save anyone else the hassle of defaulting to OEM specs with an aftermarket subframe, DON'T do it for ALL OF THEM! The two sets of bolts furthest to the rear, felt right more at around 30ft lbs before things started to bend. At around 35ft lbs.......sure enough it snapped!! And this was with an alternate torque wrench.

If I could read Japanese, maybe I could confirm the above. But 52ft lbs is WAYYY too much. Maybe someone else that can read Japanese can chime in but the specs, if different, should have been one of the few things written in English!! Anyways, two lessons learned:

1) If it doesn't feel right, It probably isn't.
2) Don't take advice unless you are 100% it is credible.





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Old 08-06-2015, 09:32 PM   #5
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It would seem the bolt bottomed-out... unless the hardware provided is garbage, there is no reason the bolt should yield... it's the same as the stock one.

Are you sure you used the correct length? The rearward bolts are significantly shorter. That one should be an M10x25.

Also, why is the subframe showing damage? You should have a washer and lock washer stacked on the bolt in that location. The washer should be preventing rotation (and damage to the anodizing).
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Old 08-06-2015, 10:35 PM   #6
Subie Nic
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I used the bolts that came with the subframe. M10X25 is correct with a washer+lock washer. Frame damage was due to excessive torque and continual rotation of the bolt before it finally gave way. Bummer.
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Old 08-06-2015, 10:38 PM   #7
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I have this subframe and I used the factory specifications when it was on my 2006 WRX, and used the same specifications when it went onto my friend's 2002 WRX, without issue.

Is it possible that the threaded hole was not clean causing it to bind, or that the bolt was bad, or both?

The FSM torque-specifications are from front to rear:

25 lb/ft for the two front-center bolts (two total)
41 lb/ft for the next three side bolts (six total L&R combined)
52 lb/ft for the next three side bolts (four total L&R combined)
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Old 08-07-2015, 11:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie Nic View Post
I used the bolts that came with the subframe. M10X25 is correct with a washer+lock washer. Frame damage was due to excessive torque and continual rotation of the bolt before it finally gave way. Bummer.
Continual rotation of the bolt should be in contact with a lock waster and washer, not the subframe. The bolt should not even be touching the subframe itself, with the exception of a couple threads lightly grazing the ID of the hole.

As Big-E stated... something caused the bolt to bind. That's really the only possible explanation.
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:15 PM   #9
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We measure torque as it is applied to the head of the bolt. Whether the bolt is bound or stuck at its threads makes no difference in this bolt failure.

However it does appear that excessive torque was applied. If you are worried about the bolts loosening over time then thread locker should be used.
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Old 08-08-2015, 05:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzcrank View Post
We measure torque as it is applied to the head of the bolt. Whether the bolt is bound or stuck at its threads makes no difference in this bolt failure.

However it does appear that excessive torque was applied. If you are worried about the bolts loosening over time then thread locker should be used.
I was making the assumption that a click-type torque wrench was used. Is there a chance the click was missed? Once the head starts to yield, you're not gonna get a click once the head starts turning.

Either way, this is bizarre. I really would have liked to see this actually taking place to get a better idea of what was going on. The fact that the washer rotated and wore through the anodizing is quite odd... it's purpose is both to spread the load and to take the rotational wear from the bolt, rather than letting the assembly take the damage.

My best guess at this point - you were given bad lot of hardware. I've had it happen before, though usually on much smaller hardware. As I said above, once the head starts to twist, you'll never actually see the torque rating on a torque wrench, as the peak torque was the point where the bolt decided to fail. Easy fix though - head over to ACE/Lowe's/Home Depot and get some new metric bolts. If you manage to break two (different source) sets of hardware back-to-back using factory torque specs, I owe you a beer.
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:43 PM   #11
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^ Yes sir, I used two different Craftsman clicking torque wrenches. I could feel by the yield that the torque was about correct anyways before the washers started to cave and spin on the subframe. I am guessing bad hardware and washers at this point. Purchased better hardware from a local Ace that seemed to work better. They may be under torqued a little but I don't see them backing out. Just can't chance another head snapping.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:57 AM   #12
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Ummmm... Has anyone mentioned that your anti roll bar is in upside down?
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Old 08-15-2015, 06:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Ummmm... Has anyone mentioned that your anti roll bar is in upside down?
Or perhaps just flipped up out of the way.
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:23 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
Or perhaps just flipped up out of the way.
Not unless he detached the end links, FLIPPED the bar and then reattached them........ (In other words look closer at the pic and you can see the end links are bolted in and yet the bar is in upside down) ...which I hope he did not leave that way.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:01 AM   #15
06wrbsti91
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jeez looking under my car my u brace is also rusted bad, and looking at the bolts it looks as if they welded into the frame from all the rust. smh
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Old 08-16-2015, 06:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by othon View Post
Not unless he detached the end links, FLIPPED the bar and then reattached them........ (In other words look closer at the pic and you can see the end links are bolted in and yet the bar is in upside down) ...which I hope he did not leave that way.
Yes, you're correct.
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Old 10-23-2015, 02:49 AM   #17
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So what are the right torque specs? Have one coming in amd would like to know
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:01 PM   #18
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Old thread revival sorry.
Wanted to add my 2 cents.
I had the very same problems with my brace.
The bolt was not bottomed out.
I deformed the brace like he OP did.
Added a larger washer and it started to bend the washer! I used oem bolts and tightened to 30ftlb.
Also decided against the front most bolts and used oem.
Did not go for the 77ftlb thatís stated for the inner most bolts on the Subaru workshop document I have. Going for 40ft.
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