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Old 09-06-2019, 07:42 PM   #851
Brahmzy
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LOL @ practicality debate between an S209 and an M2C. That S209 is absolutely worthless in the snow, just like an M2C without dedicated snows on it, just like the M2C. My ‘05 STI was a garage queen in the CO winters with its RE070s. Absolutely worthless, and dangerous, in the snow.
As far as light years, go drive a new STI, take it all in, interior, features, performance, feel. Then go drive an M2C and do the same. Not even in the same ballpark. M2C is as close as you’re going to get to a track/drivers car these days in its $60K class. It does feel light years ahead. But, I’m willing to bet Justy hasn’t driven any 1 or 2 series anything, ever.
The STI is SO long in the tooth and virtually unchanged since 2004 it’s ridiculous. Fact.
I driven the new ones many times and I honestly think they’re a step back from my ‘05. I love the steering, that’s it. They aren’t even comparable to an M2C, and, well they shouldn’t be at $25K difference. Which is why a basically unavailable $70K+ S209 isn’t even worth discussing as nobody will get one. Why spend so much time talking about such a limited vehicle anyway?
You’re not getting double car with an S209. It’s the sheer name and limited availability Subaru knows it can get away with. And again, if that’s your thing, more power to ya, but it truly is way outclassed in that range.
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Old 09-06-2019, 09:41 PM   #852
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BMW's are such maintenance queens to the point people only lease them and dump them when the term is up. Look up Savagegeese on Youtube and his experience with his BMW.
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:25 PM   #853
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I really enjoy Savageese's reviews. His review of the Type RA was great.. especially the intro. But he did a good job at explaining the charm of the STI compared to its rivals. I hope he'll get to review a S209.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:58 AM   #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cata View Post
There are no comparison between 22b and S209. The reason they exist are different. S-line are always the Top spec version of Impreza WRX Sti (produced from Sti) that's all. 22b exist for a totally difference. Subaru has to put impreza in Group A class of the World Rally Championship with wider fender. And In order to be homologated, manufacturers were required to produce 2,500 units worldwide before they can use that chassis for the race back then. That how 22b was designed and made into a limited edition to 500ish car for sale.
This is not quite right.

The 22b, like the US Type-RA, was a celebration car. Subaru had won a 3rd Constructor's Title and made the 22b for that reason. The 3rd win was also the first win for the WRC chassis based on the 2-door Type-R. Subaru never homologated through the 22b - the engine could not be spec'd for Group A or Group N (too large). That job was left for the WRX-RA/STi-RA and WRX/STi Type-R for FIA WRC/Group A and Group N (as both cars had spec 1994cc engines).
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:09 PM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wannabe WRX View Post
This is not quite right.

The 22b, like the US Type-RA, was a celebration car. Subaru had won a 3rd Constructor's Title and made the 22b for that reason. The 3rd win was also the first win for the WRC chassis based on the 2-door Type-R. Subaru never homologated through the 22b - the engine could not be spec'd for Group A or Group N (too large). That job was left for the WRX-RA/STi-RA and WRX/STi Type-R for FIA WRC/Group A and Group N (as both cars had spec 1994cc engines).
Cool, thanks for clearing up...
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:14 AM   #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post
BMW's are such maintenance queens to the point people only lease them and dump them when the term is up. Look up Savagegeese on Youtube and his experience with his BMW.
Oh please. One guy. Take a look at his Honda nightmares;


Are Honda's maintenance queens because he's had issues with them in the past? I have had zero issues with my M2. The car feels substantial and solid like no other Subaru will ever and we've owned a few different Subarus.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:13 AM   #857
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It's funny how varied personal experiences are. I know people on both sides who either think BMWs are unreliable or Subarus are unreliable.

Popular public opinion is the opposite, though. BMWs are seen as highly unreliable past warranty, much the same with VW. While Subarus are generally thought of as highly reliable just short of the turbo models.

My personal experience with VW and Subaru has me siding with popular opinion. I'm not into BMWs, so nothing to say there.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:35 AM   #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
It's funny how varied personal experiences are. I know people on both sides who either think BMWs are unreliable or Subarus are unreliable.

Popular public opinion is the opposite, though. BMWs are seen as highly unreliable past warranty, much the same with VW. While Subarus are generally thought of as highly reliable just short of the turbo models.

My personal experience with VW and Subaru has me siding with popular opinion. I'm not into BMWs, so nothing to say there.
I would never own a BMW or VW out of warranty. I owned too many of them to know better. They are made to lease. So far my WRX has been bulletproof but time will tell.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:06 PM   #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
It's funny how varied personal experiences are. I know people on both sides who either think BMWs are unreliable or Subarus are unreliable.

Popular public opinion is the opposite, though. BMWs are seen as highly unreliable past warranty, much the same with VW. While Subarus are generally thought of as highly reliable just short of the turbo models.

My personal experience with VW and Subaru has me siding with popular opinion. I'm not into BMWs, so nothing to say there.
There are lots and lots of stories all around about reliability, but there are two major reliabilty FACTS about Japanese makes and German makes...

Japanese brands have little to no electrical issues.
Japanese brands are much easier to work on.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:57 PM   #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Oh please. One guy. Take a look at his Honda nightmares;

https://youtu.be/5v_j9Ct2jrQ

Are Honda's maintenance queens because he's had issues with them in the past? I have had zero issues with my M2. The car feels substantial and solid like no other Subaru will ever and we've owned a few different Subarus.
That's why it's best to not buy the first model year of any vehicle. Let others be the beta testers
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:33 PM   #861
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Looks like the embargo for driving reviews of the s209 ends Thursday.
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Old 09-23-2019, 04:55 PM   #862
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Looks like the embargo for driving reviews of the s209 ends Thursday.
Did you sell your RA man?
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:19 AM   #863
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Old 09-25-2019, 05:44 PM   #864
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^meh on the acceleration.
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Old 09-25-2019, 06:54 PM   #865
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How quick does a storage queen need to be?
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:40 PM   #866
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Whoa, filmed at my home track, Palmer Motorsports Park. Interesting they only topped out at 113 mph on the front straight on the clockwise configuration. Doesn’t seem like they’re pushing it that hard but my BRZ (Bolt-ons and tune) usually tops out at 105 mph on that same straight on DE days and a smidge faster during TT. I’d love to know what they ran for a laptime there.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:42 PM   #867
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
How quick does a storage queen need to be?
I'd drive the piss out of it if it was mine. Life is too short for a garage queen subaru.
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Old 09-26-2019, 12:01 AM   #868
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Looks like the embargo for driving reviews of the s209 ends Thursday.
It’s Thursday. Let’s see those reviews people.
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:16 AM   #869
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No more forged internals, that seemed like biggest selling point.
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:36 AM   #870
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:59 AM   #871
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News Subaru Tecnica International Unleashes Most Powerful Model Ever With Limited-Edition

  • Limited production run of 209 vehicles
  • Available exclusively in the U.S.
  • 341-horsepower 2.5-liter SUBARU BOXER engine
  • Aggressive new look with wide fenders, front canards and rear wing
  • Performance-focused chassis with flexible strut tower bar and draw stiffeners
  • Exclusive 19 x 9-inch forged BBS® wheels with bespoke Dunlop® SP Sport Maxx® GT600A tires
  • Brembo® brakes with new high-friction pads
  • Available in two exterior colors: World Rally Blue Pearl and Crystal White Pearl




Subaru Tecnica International (STI), a wholly owned subsidiary of Subaru Corporation, introduced the limited-edition STI S209, the first-ever S-line STI product produced exclusively for the U.S. market. As an S-line product, the STI S209 encompasses upgrades in power, handling, aerodynamics and driver engagement, and undergoes final assembly in Kiryu, Japan, where it receives engine modifications and bodywork alterations that in total require it to be homologated for the U.S. by STI; thus, the S209 is considered the first “STI-built” Subaru sold in the U.S. The S209 carries on a high-performance tradition that dates to STI-built models that were exclusive to the Japanese domestic market – the 2000 S201 through the 2018 S208.

Designed with a focus on high-performance driving, the S209 draws inspiration and tech transfer from STI’s most formidable track machine: the WRX STI Nürburgring Challenge racecar, which won the SP3T class at the 2019 24 Hours of Nürburgring, marking the sixth time STI dominated the SP3T class at the grueling endurance race. The S209, like the Nürburgring Challenge racecar, wears an expanded wide-body exterior treatment, which extends the vehicle’s overall width to 72.4 inches, or 1.7 inches wider than a standard WRX STI. The bulging fenders accommodate wider front/rear tracks (+ 0.6 in front/rear) and 265/35 Dunlop® SP Sport Maxx® GT600A summer-only tires wrapped around lightweight 19 x 9-inch forged BBS alloy wheels. The all-new tires, developed exclusively for the S209 by Dunlop, are a significant contributor to the car’s tenacious maximum lateral grip of over 1.0 g. Vents on the front fenders provide additional engine cooling, while vents on the rear fenders rectify air turbulence to reduce drag and increase downforce. Brembo brakes, with cross-drilled steel rotors and 6-piston monoblock front calipers and 2-piston monoblock rear calipers, provide stout stopping force, thanks in part to upgraded high-friction pads that deliver improved fade-resistance.

Underneath the S209’s broader body are specially developed Bilstein® dampers, stiffened coil springs, a 20mm rear stabilizer bar and pillow-type bushings for the front/rear lateral links. The S209 incorporates reinforcements to the front crossmember and rear subframes and, a la the Nürburgring racecar, a flexible front-strut tower bar and flexible front/rear draw stiffeners. The flexible tower bar, unlike a conventional rigid bar, is split and joined with a pillow ball joint in the center to be longitudinally mobile while helping laterally stiffen the body of the car. The result is optimum tire grip during lateral moments combined with compliant ride during longitudinal moments. Meanwhile, the draw stiffeners apply tension between the body and cross member to optimize chassis flex, improving stability when cornering and delivering better ride, handling and steering response. Other Nürburgring racecar tech that trickles down to the S209: front, rear and side under spoilers; front bumper canards; and carbon-fiber roof panel and rear wing.

A reworked version of the legendary EJ25 2.5-liter turbocharged BOXER engine propels the S209. Featuring an STI turbocharger manufactured by HKS®, the EJ25 serves up 341 horsepower at 6,400 rpm, thanks in part to a larger turbine and compressor (up 6 and 8 percent, respectively, compared to WRX STI) as well as maximum boost pressure that has been increased to 18.9 psi (16.2 psi for WRX STI). Proudly displaying an S209 serial number plate, the enhanced BOXER engine also receives a notable bump in midrange torque, 330 lb.-ft. at 3,600 rpm, delivering higher corner exit speeds when driving on track.

For ultimate driver engagement, the S209 comes exclusively with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission that routes power to a full-time Subaru Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive system with front/rear limited-slip differentials, a Driver Controlled Center Differential (DCCD), Active Torque Vectoring and Multi-Mode Vehicle Dynamics Control. A recalibrated SI-Drive system offers three modes: Intelligent (I) for better fuel economy and smoother power control; Sport (S) for optimized power balance between response and control; and Sport Sharp (S#) for achieving the best acceleration times. STI engineers recommend Sport over Sport Sharp for circuit driving, as the less aggressive throttle map allows for greater driver control.

To feed more air to the EJ25, the S209 uses a high-flow intake system featuring a new intake duct, induction box with conical air filter, silicone turbo inlet duct and, a nod from the 2004-07 WRX STI, an intercooler water spray system that lowers intercooler temperature via manually operated steering-wheel paddles. More air demands more fuel, so the S209 receives a new high-flow fuel pump, larger fuel injectors and an STI-tuned engine control module. High-performance mufflers deliver 17-percent less airflow resistance while larger hand-polished stainless-steel exhaust tips – 101mm in diameter – deliver aggressive appearance and acoustics.

The S209 receives multiple tweaks to elevate it from other STI sedans. An STI badge replaces the traditional Subaru star cluster on the center of the D-shape steering wheel, which is wrapped in Ultrasuede® with silver stitching, a treatment that carries over to the lid of the center console storage box. An S209 serial number badge resides on the center console, and S209 badges adorn the passenger-side dash and the headrests of the Recaro® front bucket seats, which feature new silver-hued inserts. Outside, special S209 badges are affixed to the front grille and fenders as well as the rear decklid.

Only 209 units of the STI S209 will be built, earmarked exclusively for the U.S. Available exterior color/BBS wheel combinations will be WR Blue Pearl/gray wheels and Crystal White Pearl/gold wheels. Pricing will be announced closer to the on-sale date in late 2019.

About Subaru Tecnica International, Inc.
Subaru Tecnica International Inc. (STI), a wholly owned subsidiary of Subaru Corporation of Japan, was established to undertake the motorsports activities of Subaru. Today STI's core businesses are supplying motorsports base vehicles and competition parts; planning, tuning and developing Subaru Limited Edition models; planning and selling accessories; and tuning parts for auto enthusiasts worldwide. Through these operations, STI aims to provide special satisfaction to its many Subaru fans.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:39 AM   #872
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:47 AM   #873
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Quote:
Subaru had to quash its ambitious plans for forged pistons and connecting rods, due to potential durability concerns that the company now suspects was a non-issue. Nevertheless, Subaru ultimately decided to take no chances with this special, high-profile car, and went with cast components instead, with no resulting loss in horsepower.
I hope the MSRP reflects this.. I wonder if this means that it's the same internals as the RA/19+ STI?

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-26-2019 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:53 AM   #874
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New upper "rear draw stiffener" with a cherry blossom cover?



Quote:
The top handling priority was to reduce the WRX’s “hysteresis,” a fancy engineering term for the time lag between turning the steering wheel and the car’s attendant reaction. Subaru says the S209’s steering yaw response is 15% better than even the Type RA, itself a veritable waterbug of a sedan. So-called “draw stiffeners,” developed on the brand’s Nürburgring racers, connect the lower front suspension arms to the body crossmember. A sophisticated, flexible front tower bar improves cornering and straight-line stability. Another damped draw stiffener again preloads the rear suspension for faster steering response and improved cornering force. There’s a new rear subframe brace, and spherical suspension joints that increase the tire contact patch by as much as 20 percent under duress. Bilstein dampers, stiffer in compression but softer in rebound vs. the Type RA, mate with 10-mm lowering springs.
Lots of bracing. Hopefully some of these "JDM" parts will be cheaper now that we have a car with them in the US.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-26-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:12 AM   #875
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Looks to be genuine contender
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/review...78755129539285
Palmer Motorsports Park is not for the faint of heart. Over its 2.3 miles, this 14-turn track features 190 feet of elevation change and, if you're running it in the clockwise configuration, tricky late apexes that take forever to show up. It can make mincemeat out of a car that isn't prepared to fight for every mote of grip.

Thankfully, I have just the machine: The 2019 Subaru WRX STI S209.
Ninth time's a charm

STI's "S" cars live atop the hierarchy, a tier above the traditional STI we're used to in the United States. The first of these cars, the S201, arrived in Japan in 2000. The seven cars that followed it have all been Japan-only specials, too, because of the way they're constructed. The "donor" cars are still built at Subaru's usual facility, but then they are plucked from the line and sent to STI's own in-house experts for additional modifications above and beyond the mass-market vehicles.

It's that modification process that has typically relegated these cars to Japan alone. In the process of changing parts here and there, the vehicles are no longer eligible for US import under our country's homologation rules, which are among the strictest. Given the groundswell of enthusiast support here, though, Subaru finally saw fit to make the effort to get its latest "S" car to the US.


It doesn't take much to discover that STI heavily modifies its "S" vehicles, even in comparison to some of its hotter variants like the WRX STI Type RA.

"S" cars promise the strongest connection between the driver and the road, and many of the modifications on the S209 are in pursuit of that goal. The body wears wider fenders, one of the easiest mods to note at a quick glance, which allows the S209 to fit fatter wheels and tires, increasing the contact patch and, by proxy, mechanical grip. Canards on the front bumper and the adjustable wing out back help push the body toward terra firma, while a nearly obscene number of vents and inlets seek to channel air more efficiently, aiding cooling.

Many of the S209's most important parts can't be seen without digging a little deeper. Up front, there's this special bit called a flexible draw stiffener, which uses a bar and spring combination to laterally firm up the chassis, reducing the time between turning the wheel and turning the car itself -- this clever little piece of chassis tech is borrowed from STI's Nurburgring 24 Hours race car. There's a second flexible draw stiffener in the trunk, too, protected by a pink bar so that owners don't accidentally smack the thing when loading up the trunk.
2019 Subaru WRX STI S209
Enlarge Image

The pink bar itself doesn't do anything other than protect the actual draw stiffener behind it. Better safe than sorry.
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That's just the start. Out back, STI replaced some of the suspension's rubber bushings with hard links containing spherical joints, which the company says will reduce friction and improve the contact between the rear tires and the asphalt. Moving back to the front, STI took its front stabilizer bushings and removed the slit that makes them much easier to install, reducing deformation under load at the cost of install complexity. The carbon fiber roof sheds 8 pounds of weight and ever so slightly lowers the center of gravity while, again, stiffening up the body. Combined with sticky Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT600A summer tires, the S209 promises a maximum lateral G of 1.08, which is mighty grippy.

And I haven't even talked about the powertrain yet! The S209 uses Subaru's 2.5-liter EJ25 flat-four engine, chosen over the usual 2.0-liter found in newer "S" cars because the EJ's low-end torque is better suited for American roads. Like everything else on the car, the engine has been gifted with a whole bunch of new kit, including many parts from the S208 like the exhaust valve springs, flywheel and clutch assembly. A new intake improves the sound and reduces pressure loss. A larger HKS turbo is tucked away in there, too, raising maximum boost to about 19 psi, and larger injectors and a beefier fuel pump ensure there's plenty of fuel to go with that air. While Subaru promised forged pistons when the car made its auto show debut, it decided to stick with cast pistons, which vastly improve durability according to internal tests.

The result is an output of 341 horsepower and 330 pound-feet of torque. The dyno curves are quite different, with the S209's torque coming online later in the revs due to the turbo's larger size. STI was thorough.
On the road

My first experience with the S209 comes on the drive from our hotel in the Berkshires to Palmer Motorsports Park. From the first time I turn the steering wheel, it's obvious that STI's serious chassis mods have dramatically improved the steering, eliminating nearly every millimeter of the wheel's "dead zone." Even the most gossamer of touches on the steering wheel result in lateral movement. Combined with the hydraulic steering's honest-to-goodness feedback, it's one of the best steering systems I've ever experienced.

Naturally, the super-stiff body does mean that the S209 is a little harsh over certain kinds of pavement, and the big ol' tire contact patches transfer a healthy amount of road noise into the cabin on rougher streets. Yet, everything settles down nicely when the S209 reaches smooth pavement, acting not much different than a standard STI.
2019 Subaru WRX STI S209
Enlarge Image

The S209's seats have decent side bolstering, but the thigh support doesn't exist for skinnier folks, leading to some sliding around during sprightly maneuvers.
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The interior is, in traditional Subaru fashion, mostly fine. There's plenty of visibility on all sides, and the honkin' wing out back doesn't obscure entire vehicles, which is a nice touch. Plastics abound, but STI threw in some leather-wrapped parts on the dashboard and center console for a slightly more premium touch, reflecting the leather-trimmed seats. The seats are probably the weakest point of the whole car, lacking the lower bolstering needed for high-speed antics -- Subaru told me that Japan-spec "S" cars have far tighter seats, but since the S209 was built for America, the automaker had to sacrifice some of that bolstering to accommodate Yankee badonkadonks. The seats are also mounted surprisingly high, and they're unable to get as low to the floor as I'd like.

STI's powertrain prowess is on display in the S209. The adjustments are immediately felt, with the power coming on strong, accompanied by a meaner exhaust note thanks to a revised exhaust system. The sedan hustles with confidence through traffic and around curves, and its six-speed manual gearbox has 10% shorter throws that add a nice feeling to the stick. The clutch pedal's bite point is rather high, which takes some getting used to, but it's nothing that time and experience can't smooth out. I recommend the softest vehicle mode, Intelligent, when driving around town, because the throttle is far too touchy for smooth driving in the default Sport or hardcore Sport Sharp modes.
On the track

Palmer Motorsports Park is an excellent place to test out the S209, especially in its clockwise configuration. Complicated double-apex turns and a whole lot of uphill driving means the car's all-wheel-drive system is earning its keep, clawing at the ground through the tires to pull the car out of some tricky situations.

Before I set out, one of STI's Japanese engineers gives me a recommendation for how to set the car up. Sport Sharp mode is mostly acceleration-oriented, so it's best left in the default Sport mode, where the throttle is touchy but not an on-off switch like it is in Sport Sharp. He also recommends changing the locking center differential's automatic mode to provide extra rear bias, reducing some of the car's understeer in favor of a higher proclivity for rotation. It's definitely a good recommendation, as it allows me and my co-driver to tilt the S209's nose toward an apex with a slight lift off the throttle.
2019 Subaru WRX STI S209
Enlarge Image

Grip everywhere.
Subaru

All those aerodynamic upgrades might give the S209 a bit of a Fast & Furious look, but hot damn, are they useful on the track. The canards and the wider rubber make for a prodigious amount of grip -- every time I think I'm reaching the limit of adhesion, I'll give it a little more throttle and find the tires are nowhere near maxed out. Chris Atkinson, an Australian rally driver who Subaru brought to the event, backs up my assertions with his own praise for just how planted the S209 feels when it's hustling. The immediacy of the steering combines with this grip to make the car feel damn near invincible in a way that the regular STI and even the Type RA do not.

When it comes time to stop, physics once again takes a backseat to STI's engineering competence. While the S209 uses the same Brembo brake system as the base STI and Type RA, it features heavier-duty pads that aim to reduce fade. There are tradeoffs, naturally, coming in the form of additional dust and noise, but them's the breaks. Every stop begs me to wait a little longer and push a little harder. In conjunction with the tires, it's some of the sharpest, most confident braking I've experienced in a passenger car. After 12 seriously quick laps between me and my co-driver, the S209's brake pedal feels only marginally different than when we started the day. Backup pads are always a good idea to bring to a track day, just in case, but the Subaru's stoppers are more than ready to handle a couple hours of abuse with room to spare.
Down to brass tacks

Subaru is bringing just 209 examples of the S209 to the US, its sole market. Deliveries are expected to begin around November, but the automaker is still sussing out the details of which dealers will receive them. Pricing is also TBD, but it should arrive within the next couple of weeks, and given the fact the Type RA costs around $50,000, I'm not expecting the S209 to be cheap. While Subaru said it discourages dealer markups, dealerships are independent businesses that have plenty of leeway to tack on a "market adjustment" or two, so those 209 lucky buyers might end up paying far more than what Subaru puts on the window sticker.

The 2019 Subaru WRX STI S209 is not here to half-ass anything. It's a dedicated performance car that shows off every inch of what STI's engineers can do. If you never go to the track, you'd be doing this car a disservice by owning it.

Editors' note: Travel costs related to this feature were covered by the manufacturer. This is common in the auto industry, as it's far more economical to ship journalists to cars than to ship cars to journalists. While Roadshow accepts multiday vehicle loans from manufacturers in order to provide scored editorial reviews, all scored vehicle reviews are completed on our turf and on our terms.



Last edited by Masterauto; 09-26-2019 at 11:18 AM.
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