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Old 06-10-2021, 10:49 PM   #76
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I'm going to waffle over what truck I eventually buy until I actually buy it. Ridegline? Maverick? Santa Cruz? F150? Lightning? Other? time will tell I suppose; I just put wheels & tires on my IS, so my car modification lust has been slaked for the time being.
If driving dynamics are high on the list there will only be one. If max capability is a higher priority it will be another. It all depends on what you are going to do with it. Then you weigh the pros and cons after driving each. It was a very easy decision for me.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:03 AM   #77
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Even a more off-road version with a torque vectoring rear diff and 2.3L 310 hp engine from the Broncos Sport Badlands. Call it the Maverick Raptor that is essentially a Focus RS in truck clothes. They could offer various adventure versions/themes like the Bronco Sport.
I do not believe the Bronco Sport has the 2.3L in any trim. I'm only seeing 1.5T and 2.0T. Is the 2.3T in a future plan? That sure would be bad ass, I like the way you think.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:37 AM   #78
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They need to come out with a Maverick Lightning.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:50 AM   #79
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Interesting, I honestly thought this thing would weigh more. Hybrid weighs 3,674 lbs, FWD turbo 3,563, and the heaviest is AWD at 3,731 lbs. The 2.5 is made in Mexico while the turbo is made in Ohio or Spain.
Spain, really? Ford said they won't be releasing the Maverick in Europe. If true, wouldn't those be subject to the Chicken Tax, unless they some weird final assembly in the U.S.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:51 AM   #80
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If driving dynamics are high on the list there will only be one. If max capability is a higher priority it will be another. It all depends on what you are going to do with it. Then you weigh the pros and cons after driving each. It was a very easy decision for me.
For some reason when it comes to trucks, driving dynamics don't matter as much to me - I'm more interested in the capacities, but then financials come into play as well of course - the Maverick and Santa Cruz should have lower operating costs, and a more engaging ride (for a truck anyways) but the Rigeline is way more truck for not much more money, it's kinds that sweet middle-spot. I've been saying it since the rumors hit about the electric F150 & Cybertruck, an EV pickup would be great, the Lightning is way more truck than I need though, but the minimal maintenance sounds really really good to me & having more capacity is better than not having enough. EV Ridgeline sized pickup would be perfect, skateboard not full frame, frunk, very functional bed, same capacities as the Ridgeline, should cost less than a lightning and be a more manageable package (Eg. not a behemoth) and possibly be able to have the range to handle 90% of my driving needs.
I'm in no rush to pick up a truck (pun not intended, but I'm leaving it there), my FIL is retired, he just bought a Ridgeline I can have access to whenever I want, and he loves driving my IS (not getting in and out of it though). I'll let the trucks drop and see how the dust settles, maybe buy a toy to tide myself over.
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Old 06-11-2021, 11:58 AM   #81
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I do not believe the Bronco Sport has the 2.3L in any trim. I'm only seeing 1.5T and 2.0T. Is the 2.3T in a future plan? That sure would be bad ass, I like the way you think.
Yep, you're right. I think it was rumored at one point but probably confused with the Bronco base engine. But probably an even better reason for Ford to offer it as a Maverick Raptor.
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Old 06-11-2021, 12:30 PM   #82
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Yep, you're right. I think it was rumored at one point but probably confused with the Bronco base engine. But probably an even better reason for Ford to offer it as a Maverick Raptor.
Focus RS drivetrain in a maverick, 6mt and all, while maintaining 4k towing and payload capacities? I'm in.
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Old 06-11-2021, 02:39 PM   #83
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For some reason when it comes to trucks, driving dynamics don't matter as much to me - I'm more interested in the capacities, but then financials come into play as well of course - the Maverick and Santa Cruz should have lower operating costs, and a more engaging ride (for a truck anyways) but the Rigeline is way more truck for not much more money, it's kinds that sweet middle-spot. I've been saying it since the rumors hit about the electric F150 & Cybertruck, an EV pickup would be great, the Lightning is way more truck than I need though, but the minimal maintenance sounds really really good to me & having more capacity is better than not having enough. EV Ridgeline sized pickup would be perfect, skateboard not full frame, frunk, very functional bed, same capacities as the Ridgeline, should cost less than a lightning and be a more manageable package (Eg. not a behemoth) and possibly be able to have the range to handle 90% of my driving needs.
I'm in no rush to pick up a truck (pun not intended, but I'm leaving it there), my FIL is retired, he just bought a Ridgeline I can have access to whenever I want, and he loves driving my IS (not getting in and out of it though). I'll let the trucks drop and see how the dust settles, maybe buy a toy to tide myself over.
I love my '10 Ridgeline. The biggest problem with the current Ridgeline is a lack of improvement in payload, towing, or fuel economy since 2006. The driving aids are better.. and now the styling is butch again.. so that's cool, I guess.. but there's no way I'd trade my 12 year old, perfectly reliable Ridge in on a new one. Honda really needs to either improve the fuel economy by offering their hybrid drivetrain or go full EV in the very near future. I'd trade mine in on a PHEV Ridgeline with a 7500lb towing capacity without hesitation... otherwise I'll set my sights on a CT or Lightning.
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:36 PM   #84
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I love my '10 Ridgeline. The biggest problem with the current Ridgeline is a lack of improvement in payload, towing, or fuel economy since 2006.
Not to derail the thread, but the fuel economy between first and second gen Ridgeline improved about 16% in real world use. That's significant savings over time.

But, to your point, and back to the Ford trucks, that's not enough to sway a lot of people. For example, I see no reason to get a Ranger instead of my F150, because the size different doesn't correlate well enough to the mpg change. The same goes for why I didn't buy a gen. 2 Ridgeline.

Hopefully the Maverick, the 2.0T can manage 24-25mpg combined, but we will see. If I see one glaring hole in the product, it's that you either get FWD and great MPG, or probably low-20s. A truck this small would be better suited to a drivetrain that obtains 30mpg combined, but that may come later. If they'd only offered the 3cyl., we would all be dismissing it right away, so ballsy move on their part.
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Old 06-11-2021, 03:58 PM   #85
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Not to derail the thread, but the fuel economy between first and second gen Ridgeline improved about 16% in real world use. That's significant savings over time.

But, to your point, and back to the Ford trucks, that's not enough to sway a lot of people. For example, I see no reason to get a Ranger instead of my F150, because the size different doesn't correlate well enough to the mpg change. The same goes for why I didn't buy a gen. 2 Ridgeline.

Hopefully the Maverick, the 2.0T can manage 24-25mpg combined, but we will see. If I see one glaring hole in the product, it's that you either get FWD and great MPG, or probably low-20s. A truck this small would be better suited to a drivetrain that obtains 30mpg combined, but that may come later. If they'd only offered the 3cyl., we would all be dismissing it right away, so ballsy move on their part.
I think if you pay attention to the marketing, the Maverick is going to be targeted at the people who live in dense urban areas, where a modern Ranger can be a pita to park. This is a truck you can take out of the city, but will be more livable in the day to day. Size and parking is one of the reasons I've held back from buying a truck. I don't care about the mpg. Seattle is dense. Parking is very scarce. My buddy has a Titan and lives in the city - his tires were slashed weekly parked on the street. It stopped once he pulled it into his driveway, literally feet away from where he used to park it.
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Old 06-11-2021, 06:52 PM   #86
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I think if you pay attention to the marketing, the Maverick is going to be targeted at the people who live in dense urban areas, where a modern Ranger can be a pita to park. This is a truck you can take out of the city, but will be more livable in the day to day. Size and parking is one of the reasons I've held back from buying a truck. I don't care about the mpg. Seattle is dense. Parking is very scarce.

Oh, for sure, I totally agree.


The numbers tell a good story...the Ranger is 11" longer, with 8" of that being in the bed. The other three inches are probably in the front end, leaving us with a similar size cab between the two.


The four door F-150 is 32" longer than the Maverick, and who knows how much wider.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:15 PM   #87
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Focus RS drivetrain in a maverick, 6mt and all, while maintaining 4k towing and payload capacities? I'm in.
Ford, maybe.

Dodge OTOH would mount a Rampage on a Hellcat engine.
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:51 AM   #88
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Wonder what's the EV only range on the hybrid.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:35 PM   #89
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Not to derail the thread, but the fuel economy between first and second gen Ridgeline improved about 16% in real world use. That's significant savings over time.
Yeah, a better gearbox and cylinder deactivation has helped.. but when larger trucks (F-150/Silverado/Ram) are getting better fuel mileage on the Monroney, it's a tough sell.
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Old 06-13-2021, 02:20 PM   #90
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I love my '10 Ridgeline. The biggest problem with the current Ridgeline is a lack of improvement in payload, towing, or fuel economy since 2006. The driving aids are better.. and now the styling is butch again.. so that's cool, I guess.. but there's no way I'd trade my 12 year old, perfectly reliable Ridge in on a new one. Honda really needs to either improve the fuel economy by offering their hybrid drivetrain or go full EV in the very near future. I'd trade mine in on a PHEV Ridgeline with a 7500lb towing capacity without hesitation... otherwise I'll set my sights on a CT or Lightning.
As Doug said the fuel economy did improve. Payload at 1500 lbs is already excellent for the class. Hell thatís 300 lbs more than a Raptor! Towing, well itís still unibody construction. Some say the current one is underrated and Honda is conservative. But that was never going to be a higher number. They focused on the interior, ride quality, handling, every other part of the vehicle. What other truck torque vectors? Hell Subaru doesnít even make a single AWD vehicle with mechanical torque vectoring. They are all brake based.

They improved the cab significantly as well as the handling and driving dynamics. The current RL has a different drivetrain from yours and makes for an excellent handling vehicle. So much did change, especially how it handles. I owned a Gen 1. The Gen 2 is better in every way. You need 7500 lb towing then buy a full size truck then. When buying a vehicle there is so much more than a stat sheet.
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:00 PM   #91
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Spain, really? Ford said they won't be releasing the Maverick in Europe. If true, wouldn't those be subject to the Chicken Tax, unless they some weird final assembly in the U.S.

Ugh late night typing. the turbo motors are built in Ohio and Spain but assembly for all trucks is Mexico.
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:03 PM   #92
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The current RL has a different drivetrain from yours and makes for an excellent handling vehicle.
It's got an extra gear and an updated version of the same engine. Not much changed.

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So much did change, especially how it handles. I owned a Gen 1.
My '10 (mid-model refresh) RTL (18" wheels) handles just great... but I have no interest in upgrading my Ridgeline for improved handling. It's frankly, the furthest thing from my light truck needs. If I was that concerned about it I'd buy something I could mod. Right now nobody makes better shocks for the Ridgeline of any generation. The OEM KYBs are the best option.

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The Gen 2 is better in every way. You need 7500 lb towing then buy a full size truck then.
I don't exactly want a body-on-frame truck. It's 2021.. why should I have to settle for a giant truck with 1930s suspension technology to tow anything larger than a micro-camper or pop-up?

There is no truth to the claims that unibody trucks are less capable at towing than ladder frames. There is no glut of Ridgelines running around with bent frames. The ladder frames are popular for truck manufacturing because they're a significantly simpler platform on which to build niche utility components onto. Everything from Kei trucks to Semis uses ladder frames because they're easily produced in dozens of length/drivetrain configurations and the commercial market can tack on anything the industries need with nothing more than but some U bolts and L brackets. That's why they're the default for towing.. not because the unibody is somehow inferior. Tesla is advertising the unibody CyberTruck to be good for a 3,500lb payload and 7,500lb-10,000lb towing capacity in a package similar in size to the Ridgeline.

When the Gen 1 launched it not only had the highest payload rating, it also had a higher towing rating than the Tacoma (it's only direct competition at the time). Toyota upgraded the towing package on the Tacoma (which rode like crap, but hey, it could suddenly tow 6,500lbs, although the payload remained to low to make it useful). I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Honda can aim for upping the ante again.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:01 AM   #93
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One thing that I didn't realize until now is the length of the Maverick, 200" long. This is longer than many 7 passenger CUV's. Width is still narrower. Still trying to gauge the size of this in real life. The Ranger doesn't look that much smaller than full size trucks in real life. The Santa Cruz will be shorter at 196". I know this is meant to be a compact truck but really seems closer to a true midsize truck instead of the 3/4 size trucks the Ranger, Colorado, and Taco really are. Width seems to be the more deciding factor now when looking at exterior dimensions. Still think the Maverick is a good size.

But again everything seems to get bigger every couple of years anyways. I don't even know what compact, midsize, fullsize means anymore.
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:02 AM   #94
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As Doug said the fuel economy did improve. Payload at 1500 lbs is already excellent for the class. Hell thatís 300 lbs more than a Raptor! Towing, well itís still unibody construction. Some say the current one is underrated and Honda is conservative. But that was never going to be a higher number. They focused on the interior, ride quality, handling, every other part of the vehicle. What other truck torque vectors? Hell Subaru doesnít even make a single AWD vehicle with mechanical torque vectoring. They are all brake based.

They improved the cab significantly as well as the handling and driving dynamics. The current RL has a different drivetrain from yours and makes for an excellent handling vehicle. So much did change, especially how it handles. I owned a Gen 1. The Gen 2 is better in every way. You need 7500 lb towing then buy a full size truck then. When buying a vehicle there is so much more than a stat sheet.
yup all of this is true.

My Gen 2 Ridgeline got a legitimate 29mpg on the highway with my wife two kids and luggage. No turbo, no cylinder deactivation, nothing. Just a good reliable Honda engine. Honda still builds some of the best NA engines around.

After my Accord, I fear for their electrical systems now... but I would buy a RL again... It would be foolish to not consider the Mav and Sante Fe though
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Old 06-14-2021, 11:36 AM   #95
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One thing that I didn't realize until now is the length of the Maverick, 200" long.
sorta makes sense though - if you chopped the back off of a 7 row CUV, the bed would be pretty tiny.

The maverick is 10" shorter than the old Ford Explorer Sport Trac though, which never really seemed like a midsize pickup truck.

I think the sizing is just right, but I'll wait to see one in person.
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Old 06-14-2021, 04:23 PM   #96
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sorta makes sense though - if you chopped the back off of a 7 row CUV, the bed would be pretty tiny.

The maverick is 10" shorter than the old Ford Explorer Sport Trac though, which never really seemed like a midsize pickup truck.

I think the sizing is just right, but I'll wait to see one in person.
I always considered the Explorer Sport Trac "midsize" because of the smaller trucks that existed at the time (Ranger, Isuzu, Mazda B-Series). I think the Maverick is sized right today maybe because today's "midsize" and fullsize trucks have become so big.
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Old 06-14-2021, 04:24 PM   #97
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yup all of this is true.

My Gen 2 Ridgeline got a legitimate 29mpg on the highway with my wife two kids and luggage. No turbo, no cylinder deactivation, nothing. Just a good reliable Honda engine. Honda still builds some of the best NA engines around.
Were you doing 45mph on the highway?

https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/ridgeline
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:27 PM   #98
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I'm sorry about talking Ridgeline so much, yall.

The Maverick is going to make major waves in the truck industry. It seems like a near perfect package for the affordable driveways of the suburbs. Ford throwing a unibody truck into the North American market will have far more effect than Honda did with 16 years of Ridgelines. It being a hybrid with solid stats is going to appeal to even more folks. Ford is firing on all cylinders here. This year's product debuts has made me nearly forget all about their decision to ditch cars.
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Old 06-14-2021, 05:48 PM   #99
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Were you doing 45mph on the highway?

https://www.fuelly.com/car/honda/ridgeline
about 70 actually.

Now I am using the number calculated on the dash... so that accuracy may not be 100% guaranteed. I know it seems like it is on the high side. However on a road trip, I averaged 28.2 mpg and I backed that up when I filled up. The Ridgeline is a beast on the freeway. That graph was avg mpg combined man. My average tank MPG was 19 mpg with mostly city and just a tad freeway. So that graph is spot on. I said HWY mpg.
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Old 06-14-2021, 06:39 PM   #100
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Waiting for a uni-body Ranger replacement based on the new Explorer AWD w/longitudinal layout.... they could stuff an ecoboost V6 in it for the hot version.
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