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Old 02-19-2014, 03:32 AM   #1451
outfrontmotorsports
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
Oh so these are welded in voiding an air gap altogether? Very interesting, Please do tell more!
who said anything about welding? there is no welding. the notch is kissed so the insert will have a perfect mate with the insert.

maybe we're talking about two different things

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Old 02-19-2014, 04:04 AM   #1452
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who said anything about welding? there is no welding. the notch is kissed so the insert will have a perfect mate with the insert. maybe we're talking about two different things outfront
I was just trying to figure out how you keep an air gap seal without welding? Is it just that tight of a machine fit?
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:40 AM   #1453
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I was just trying to figure out how you keep an air gap seal without welding? Is it just that tight of a machine fit?
the close deck strengthens the cylinder radially and is not intended to seal in the manner that you are thinking, just think of the block before/without the insert. It's all "air" (how does that work?) hope that helped
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:02 AM   #1454
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Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
the close deck strengthens the cylinder radially and is not intended to seal in the manner that you are thinking, just think of the block before/without the insert. It's all "air" (how does that work?) hope that helped
Do you do this to open deck blocks also?
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:47 AM   #1455
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Do you do this to open deck blocks also?
why would they modify an open deck block? or even use one? open deck blocks are either found on NA cars or on an EJ205 both of which are not commonly used when trying to make any sort of power.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:56 AM   #1456
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why would they modify an open deck block? or even use one? open deck blocks are either found on NA cars or on an EJ205 both of which are not commonly used when trying to make any sort of power.
Did you think about perhaps someone does not want to try finding more EJ207 blocks if they close in 205s? You can get 205s for dirt cheap. 207s not so much.

Also 205s have thicker OEM walls so if they were making them they could either mill that away or make one special for the 205. I think it was a great question to be honest.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:43 AM   #1457
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Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
who said anything about welding? there is no welding. the notch is kissed so the insert will have a perfect mate with the insert.

maybe we're talking about two different things

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They are press fitted into the block with loctite kind of like sleeves
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:53 AM   #1458
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why would they modify an open deck block? or even use one? open deck blocks are either found on NA cars or on an EJ205 both of which are not commonly used when trying to make any sort of power.

What about the ej207? Have you closed a deck on one of those yet? I think the ej205 is plenty durable for power with the correct internals and setup.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:58 AM   #1459
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why would they modify an open deck block? or even use one? open deck blocks are either found on NA cars or on an EJ205 both of which are not commonly used when trying to make any sort of power.
Because they were closing decks on the N/A blocks and boosting them long before the 257 was available in the states.

Remember, their background is sandrails not Suby street cars
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:00 PM   #1460
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Did you think about perhaps someone does not want to try finding more EJ207 blocks if they close in 205s? You can get 205s for dirt cheap. 207s not so much.

Also 205s have thicker OEM walls so if they were making them they could either mill that away or make one special for the 205. I think it was a great question to be honest.
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Because they were closing decks on the N/A blocks and boosting them long before the 257 was available in the states.

Remember, their background is sandrails not Suby street cars
I understand this for the closed deck process, but modifying them and NOT closing the deck would be pointness..

I am aware that outfront started by closing the deck on NA blocks, and also that they offer closed deck 2.0's that were previously open deck motors.

the EJ20K and V6 EJ207 can be had pretty cheap.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:04 PM   #1461
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Isnt the difference between the 205 and 207 the semi closed deck on the 207?

At that point wouldnt it be easier/cheaper to close the 205?
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:12 PM   #1462
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Outfront does make a closed deck for the open deck blocks. It's still the original version, but they told me they haven't had any issues with it cracking.

And in talking with crystal about building a 2.0 before I went 2.35. He thought that the power capabilities were as good as the ej255/57 blocks, because of the thicker walls. That's all if I understood him correctly. So layvon is absolutely on the right track with his statement IMO.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:15 PM   #1463
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Isnt the difference between the 205 and 207 the semi closed deck on the 207? At that point wouldnt it be easier/cheaper to close the 205?
As far as differences in the case halves, yes that's the only difference.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:24 PM   #1464
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Outfront does make a closed deck for the open deck blocks. It's still the original version, but they told me they haven't had any issues with it cracking.

And in talking with crystal about building a 2.0 before I went 2.35. He thought that the power capabilities were as good as the ej255/57 blocks, because of the thicker walls. That's all if I understood him correctly. So layvon is absolutely on the right track with his statement IMO.
he for sure is. once you close the deck, open deck or semi closed deck no longer matters from the start. at that point all that matters is cylinder liner thickness.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:11 PM   #1465
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Another nasioc epidemic lol
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:14 PM   #1466
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Isnt the difference between the 205 and 207 the semi closed deck on the 207? At that point wouldnt it be easier/cheaper to close the 205?

Yes but you already have a structurally sound platform going with a semi closed ej207
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:51 PM   #1467
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Outfront does make a closed deck for the open deck blocks. It's still the original version, but they told me they haven't had any issues with it cracking.

And in talking with crystal about building a 2.0 before I went 2.35. He thought that the power capabilities were as good as the ej255/57 blocks, because of the thicker walls. That's all if I understood him correctly. So layvon is absolutely on the right track with his statement IMO.
we mainly do the 257 block, we feel its the strongest platform,

we now also have the late model 25rs block, core casting "Z25" in stock, this was a full open deck block and is a cheaper alternative for a closed deck 25 hybrid as you don't have the center block vent. this block is a rear thrust, phase 2 and we sell the core for $200.

we have some 205 blocks in stock but this was our first design. this design has never had an issue with cracking as the walls are so thick to begin with. we have not done a 207 block to date

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Old 02-19-2014, 04:14 PM   #1468
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Yes but you already have a structurally sound platform going with a semi closed ej207
Yes but if your looking to go closedeck your probably going to go fully forged new rotating assembly. So if your starting from scratch the 205 is a cheaper route and the bottom end will be equally as capable once there closedeck. Stock for stock 207 is 1000000000000000 times better, but built and closedecked no reason to spend the extra cash. Unless you buy one of the 207 blocks with the thicker liners!
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Old 02-19-2014, 05:20 PM   #1469
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Yes but if your looking to go closedeck your probably going to go fully forged new rotating assembly. So if your starting from scratch the 205 is a cheaper route and the bottom end will be equally as capable once there closedeck. Stock for stock 207 is 1000000000000000 times better, but built and closedecked no reason to spend the extra cash. Unless you buy one of the 207 blocks with the thicker liners!

At the end of the day the 207 will always be the best based on obvious factors like oil squirters in the block for piston skirts and for cam lobes. Granted if it's not meticulously maintained these can become clogged causing more harm.
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Old 02-19-2014, 05:23 PM   #1470
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the block has squirters for cam lobes?
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:03 PM   #1471
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the block has squirters for cam lobes?
Also for the muffler bearings.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:05 PM   #1472
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Also for the muffler bearings.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:10 PM   #1473
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Forgot they had squirters for the skirts. And I was basing just off the shortblock. Obviously there is no comparing any other Subaru head to a 207 head, especially the v8 big ports.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:23 PM   #1474
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the block has squirters for cam lobes?
The heads. But the oil is delivered from the block yes.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:26 PM   #1475
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If the 207 block would be better to do, why not just get a ej22t block, sleeve it and be done with it?

The point of these is to make what everyone has in the US (255, or 257) into something much better. Not trying to reinvent the wheel...
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