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Old 04-14-2019, 09:48 PM   #76
05lgt6969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mreed6360 View Post
So, I've amateur tuned a few things before, but not a Subaru. With my budget constraints i ended up buying a Tactrix OpenPort 2. and tuning with Romraider/ecu flash.

this entailed a ton of research, which I enjoyed.
I ended up finding Roms from were my engine should be from (JDM Legacy) and edited the Baja Ecm to replicate the Rom from the JDM Legacy in some areas but not all.

Then I did a ton of data logging, and editing of the "working" rom that i was using. I ocused on "fixing" one part of the tune before moving on to the next.

I had a few areas where i needed to adjust timing, and the MAF scaling needed adjusted for closed and open loop. and I fee l like there s still more to it. But i feel like I have learned a lot along the way.

if you have the budget I highly recommend using a good tuner/dyno time to get your setup dialed in. I was only able to do it on my own because I added a wideband o2 and did a decent amount of data logging and interpretation, and read a bunch of books about engiens and turbo engine operation. It's not for everybody. And while i believe my tune is safe and makes decent power, i think a professional tuner could give more power/ better fueling.

TLDR, I have a day Job, and making fast Subaru's isn't exactly it.
Im hopeful that my ecu is safe to drive this around for a while till i get the money to get it tuned since our motors ar the same but stock hp is different i wont beat on it but i am worried and what injectors did you go with the yellow or the blue?
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:35 PM   #77
Mreed6360
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You should be ok, I would just stay out of high load/ high boost as much as possible until you get tuned.

I can't remember how lean mine was with the stock Baja ecu and with this motor, I started messing with it pretty much as soon as I had it running.

I went with the blue ones that came with the ej20x.

Mostly because I wasn't shooting for more power than stock, and so the larger yellow injectors from the ej255 we're not needed.

Also with my budget/time frame just leaving the JDM injectors in place made sense. I didn't want to have to buy seals, or take any more apart than was absolutely necessary.

If you already have it apart, by all means go with the bigger yellow injectors, it will make your fueling richer which is good.

I kept everything from my ej255, so that if I feel like it later I can add the bigger injectors. But with mine being an automatic I'm not sure if I'll bother with that. I really really like manuals. But didn't have the budget to swap that too.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:02 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadok View Post
Here you go.
EJ20X/Y downpipe cast outlet short ram pipe. Fits: TD04HLA, VF38, VF40?, VF44, VF45?, VF46?, VF47. They also have the lower downpipes for it also. I'm not sure if it works for LHD cars.
https://avoturbo.com/exhaust-turbo-o...s1303g3la001t/
I ended up using the vf46 it came with. Really laggy on bottom end. Tuned with ecu flash and tactrix. Runs quite well now. Weird thing is i didnt have to swap any sensors and never had mil. Anyone want the headers/ up pipes turbo and intake let me know. Vf 44 turbo.

Last edited by Cdjkworkman; 04-27-2019 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Adding material
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:42 AM   #79
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I wish I had the luck or skill you guys do, bc mine won't run. What that means is that it will not idle under its own power, I have to keep the throttle depressed pretty far to get it to run. then it starts screaming to 5 grand. if you gave it about 30% throttle it barely runs coughing and trying to die.
I've traced everything back, all the sensors fit except the Map sensor which I just have hanging there for now, plugged in and connected.
The 20Y didn't have a fuel pressure reg with it, so I threw on the one from the baja. With the regulator installed, if you give it throttle, it will run as stated above, but no throttle and it immediately dies. I tested the entire fuel system 3 times and it all accurate and works, so I don't think fuel is the problem.
I have no codes at all.
I'm starting to think it feels like a severe vacuum leak, but I don't see how. I triple checked that system also. There is a dent in the intercooler that came with the engine, maybe its leaking. although I did put some jb weld on it to be sure for now. I don't have my vacuum tester with me.
One more thing I should mention is that I haven't built the downpipe yet so its running open off the chopped flanged piece they gave me, but I'm not sure how that would cause such a dramatic result?
I retarded the exhaust cams 1 tooth CCW as recommended, and triple checked that also. however the cams on cylinders 2 & 4 slipped on me and spun to a zero lift position. I retimed it, according to the book, but is it possible they are 180 degrees out? Wouldn't large amounts of code show up if that happened and I smashed the valves. I'm 99 percent sure the timing is right. I made sure I rotated the intake and exhaust cam in the corresponding direction to properly time.
I'm sure its something stupid but any input would be greatly helpful.
thanks

Last edited by Zadok; 04-29-2019 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:38 PM   #80
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You won't get codes without it running.

Did you swap all of your wiring over to the new engine?
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:46 PM   #81
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I used the Baja fuel pressure regulator, no problem there. The exhaust shouldn't be an issue. At least for it to start and idle.

Maybe try hooking up the tactrix and data logging a bunch of things to see if there is anything obviously waaaayyyy off? Indicating a bad sensor, or bad connection to a sensor?
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:53 PM   #82
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I'm personally wondering about the syncing of cam and crank sensors. I know crank triggers can be fickle with air gap. Did you check it?
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:03 AM   #83
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just a quick note for you guys . I have a 2004 swapped BH Outback ( swapped in my old Baja turbo harness and all after I wrecked it ).Point is I have the EJ20x and I used the EJ255 Lower Exhaust cams , cam seals and cam gears and everything ran great on the first start up , no check engine lights . so for those curious its all plug and play if you got the necessary parts from your old engine . and I didn't deal with the CPS situation

hope this helps anyone whos curious about doing the lower cams to have spot on timing
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:29 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadok View Post
I wish I had the luck or skill you guys do, bc mine won't run. What that means is that it will not idle under its own power, I have to keep the throttle depressed pretty far to get it to run. then it starts screaming to 5 grand. if you gave it about 30% throttle it barely runs coughing and trying to die.
I've traced everything back, all the sensors fit except the Map sensor which I just have hanging there for now, plugged in and connected.
The 20Y didn't have a fuel pressure reg with it, so I threw on the one from the baja. With the regulator installed, if you give it throttle, it will run as stated above, but no throttle and it immediately dies. I tested the entire fuel system 3 times and it all accurate and works, so I don't think fuel is the problem.
I have no codes at all.
I'm starting to think it feels like a severe vacuum leak, but I don't see how. I triple checked that system also. There is a dent in the intercooler that came with the engine, maybe its leaking. although I did put some jb weld on it to be sure for now. I don't have my vacuum tester with me.
One more thing I should mention is that I haven't built the downpipe yet so its running open off the chopped flanged piece they gave me, but I'm not sure how that would cause such a dramatic result?
I retarded the exhaust cams 1 tooth CCW as recommended, and triple checked that also. however the cams on cylinders 2 & 4 slipped on me and spun to a zero lift position. I retimed it, according to the book, but is it possible they are 180 degrees out? Wouldn't large amounts of code show up if that happened and I smashed the valves. I'm 99 percent sure the timing is right. I made sure I rotated the intake and exhaust cam in the corresponding direction to properly time.
I'm sure its something stupid but any input would be greatly helpful.
thanks
I didn't touch the timing as far as moving the cams. Just with tactrix. It sounds like mass air flow.
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:48 PM   #85
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Default New swap

Hello, I'm working on the same swap (for a 2005 Baja Turbo w/spun rod bearing) and I have some questions I'd appreciate some help with.

First, the purpose of the swap is to get the car back on the road and be reliable with hopefully limited tuning, I'm not that experienced with it.
I'm assuming it will require some tuning, and am looking at getting an openport 2 for this.

We're going the long block route, transplanting most of the old engine onto it (intake manifold w/wiring, turbo, intercooler, intake and exhaust).

Should I use the Blue EJ20X or my original Yellow 255 injectors?

Should I turn the Exhaust cams ccw one tooth for closer to stock timing? There are some mixed comments in the thread.

Should I swap all the sensors from my old engine to the EJ20X block, even the ones that look the same and plug in the same? I read about a 16 to 32 bit difference in one of these threads, but I'm not sure if it was for this engine.

Also, are these egr valves? They look like it, there are two of them.
https://imgur.com/I2nalzS

And, if they are, and I remove them (use the one on my Baja intake), should I just block off the ports on the head they came off of?
https://imgur.com/nQ53LtL
Here's the ports, from both heads.
Also, to the right of the one port, the hose coming out, it isn't there on my 255 engines head, it's plugged up. Can I do the same on this?

Thank You.
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:58 PM   #86
Mreed6360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpwar View Post
Hello, I'm working on the same swap (for a 2005 Baja Turbo w/spun rod bearing) and I have some questions I'd appreciate some help with.



First, the purpose of the swap is to get the car back on the road and be reliable with hopefully limited tuning, I'm not that experienced with it.

I'm assuming it will require some tuning, and am looking at getting an openport 2 for this.



We're going the long block route, transplanting most of the old engine onto it (intake manifold w/wiring, turbo, intercooler, intake and exhaust).



Should I use the Blue EJ20X or my original Yellow 255 injectors?



Should I turn the Exhaust cams ccw one tooth for closer to stock timing? There are some mixed comments in the thread.



Should I swap all the sensors from my old engine to the EJ20X block, even the ones that look the same and plug in the same? I read about a 16 to 32 bit difference in one of these threads, but I'm not sure if it was for this engine.



Also, are these egr valves? They look like it, there are two of them.

https://imgur.com/I2nalzS



And, if they are, and I remove them (use the one on my Baja intake), should I just block off the ports on the head they came off of?

https://imgur.com/nQ53LtL

Here's the ports, from both heads.

Also, to the right of the one port, the hose coming out, it isn't there on my 255 engines head, it's plugged up. Can I do the same on this?



Thank You.
From my experience I would say:

Either injector is fine for stock ish power levels. The yellow ones are slightly larger. Since the yellows are already in the intake manifold you plan to use, might as well use them.

From what I gather either way works "ok" on the exhaust cam timing. I had a conversation with a tuner at a local tuning shop (http://www.pure-tuning.com) his advice was to use the ej255 exhaust cams in the ej20x head. His concern was excessive cylinder pressures under some circumstances due to the advanced resting state of the ej20x cams. I think he knows better than I do about Subaru tuning. But my cams were hosed, and budget constraints led me to try to follow the spirit of his advice if not the letter. I really kinda want to try it both ways back to back to see how it behaves, but I also don't want to find out bad enough to retime my motor twice in one weekend.

On the sensors, if they plug the same, they are the same. I know the coolant temp sensor was different on my old/new motor. Both motors are 32 bit, and both should have drive by wire throttles.

The things in the pictures look like parts of the positive crankcase ventilation system. I'm not sure how that will go together with the ej20x heads and the ej255 intake manifold. I would say try to hook it up/make it connect. I know some people block it off or run it to a catch can, but you'll need advice beyond mine in that one.

And on my setup I did have one coolant line connector coming off of the ej20x that was not needed in the Baja. I removed a plug from the ej255 and used it to seal the unused one off. I can't remember exactly where that was, but it sounds right.

The openport 2 will help you make adjustments, a wideband 02 sensor really helps, especially with peace of mind I did have a stock 02 sensor failure about a month after the swap, having the wideband to get a second opinion was nice.
The stock first 02 sensor is pretty accurate up to a point. And for stock ish power levels is probably fine. It can't read as rich as the aftermarket sensors. So once you get out of it's range you don't know how rich you are really going. My stock sensor and wideband read dead on until like low 11 AFR I think. So it's not terrible.

And that's my 2 cents. Someone with better cam timing experience could probably give more info there too. But so far it works ok for me.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask and I'll do what I can.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:49 AM   #87
warpwar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mreed6360 View Post
From my experience I would say:

Either injector is fine for stock ish power levels. The yellow ones are slightly larger. Since the yellows are already in the intake manifold you plan to use, might as well use them.

From what I gather either way works "ok" on the exhaust cam timing. I had a conversation with a tuner at a local tuning shop (http://www.pure-tuning.com) his advice was to use the ej255 exhaust cams in the ej20x head. His concern was excessive cylinder pressures under some circumstances due to the advanced resting state of the ej20x cams. I think he knows better than I do about Subaru tuning. But my cams were hosed, and budget constraints led me to try to follow the spirit of his advice if not the letter. I really kinda want to try it both ways back to back to see how it behaves, but I also don't want to find out bad enough to retime my motor twice in one weekend.

On the sensors, if they plug the same, they are the same. I know the coolant temp sensor was different on my old/new motor. Both motors are 32 bit, and both should have drive by wire throttles.

The things in the pictures look like parts of the positive crankcase ventilation system. I'm not sure how that will go together with the ej20x heads and the ej255 intake manifold. I would say try to hook it up/make it connect. I know some people block it off or run it to a catch can, but you'll need advice beyond mine in that one.

And on my setup I did have one coolant line connector coming off of the ej20x that was not needed in the Baja. I removed a plug from the ej255 and used it to seal the unused one off. I can't remember exactly where that was, but it sounds right.

The openport 2 will help you make adjustments, a wideband 02 sensor really helps, especially with peace of mind I did have a stock 02 sensor failure about a month after the swap, having the wideband to get a second opinion was nice.
The stock first 02 sensor is pretty accurate up to a point. And for stock ish power levels is probably fine. It can't read as rich as the aftermarket sensors. So once you get out of it's range you don't know how rich you are really going. My stock sensor and wideband read dead on until like low 11 AFR I think. So it's not terrible.

And that's my 2 cents. Someone with better cam timing experience could probably give more info there too. But so far it works ok for me.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask and I'll do what I can.
Thanks for the help so far.

I can't use my 255 cams either, the rod bearing failure sent metal shavings through the whole system, scored up the bearing surfaces.

I did some searching, the mystery devices are apparently “Air Suction Valves” - Emissions related.
https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru__/...4845AA260.html

Diagram with them – this site is pretty helpful with it's diagrams.
https://parts.subaru.com/images/part...3_05001683.png

This thread talks about removing them.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2214997

“Having the wideband AFR gauge and logging it through the tactrix openport 2 made getting the fuelling right much easier. “

Which one do you have?

Thanks.

Last edited by warpwar; 05-01-2019 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:46 PM   #88
Mreed6360
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I went with AEM, 30-4110. I bought an open box one off of Amazon, saved about $50.

It has a 5v signal wire that I ran to an unused pin on my obd2 port. The tactrix can read it while doing standalone logging, but not while logging on a laptop as far as I know.

There are pics of my install earlier in this thread. I rearranged where my climate control lived and put the gauges up top.
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:05 PM   #89
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So. Iím pretty sure itís just a bad engine. I did check spark and fuel. Both are good. And no real apparent vacuum leaks. Iím going to retime it to the stock settings and run it again. But it literally sounds and acts like the valves are bent / or itís running on 2 cylinders. When you give it throttle itís shakes and misses terrible. But I have spark on all the cylinders.
Anyways, if itís a bad engine the company is going to replace it. Weíll see after I retime it.
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:12 PM   #90
Mreed6360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadok View Post
So. Iím pretty sure itís just a bad engine. I did check spark and fuel. Both are good. And no real apparent vacuum leaks. Iím going to retime it to the stock settings and run it again. But it literally sounds and acts like the valves are bent / or itís running on 2 cylinders. When you give it throttle itís shakes and misses terrible. But I have spark on all the cylinders.
Anyways, if itís a bad engine the company is going to replace it. Weíll see after I retime it.
Oof, that's no fun to have you swap it a second time. did you get a chance to do a compression test?

I was hoping it was something goofy like a bad ground, or an unplugged sensor.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:29 PM   #91
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How necessary/good is the oil cooler the Baja engine has, the one between the block and filter?

The ej20x block doesn't have one, so I assume it doesn't need it too bad.

I'd swap it over, but it's filled with metal shavings now.
It's at least $200 online for a new one.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:43 PM   #92
Mreed6360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpwar View Post
How necessary/good is the oil cooler the Baja engine has, the one between the block and filter?



The ej20x block doesn't have one, so I assume it doesn't need it too bad.



I'd swap it over, but it's filled with metal shavings now.

It's at least $200 online for a new one.
I omitted mine, so far so good. I'm not sure if it was a region specific thing, but some models use it and some don't.
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:23 PM   #93
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I omitted mine, so far so good. I'm not sure if it was a region specific thing, but some models use it and some don't.
Ok thanks again, we'll run without it.

It's probably a "nice to have" thing, but $250 is about a third of the cost of this jdm engine!
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:40 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by warpwar View Post
Ok thanks again, we'll run without it.



It's probably a "nice to have" thing, but $250 is about a third of the cost of this jdm engine!
No problem, I feel ya on the price. I think it's more a heat exchanger between the oil and the coolant.

When the car is cold the relatively quickly heating oil will help bring the coolant up to temp. Once the car is hot the cooler coolant would help cool the oil. But, it's only on some models.

I would like to see graphs of temps over time with both setups, just my curiosity. But the money/time investment is a bit much
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:32 AM   #95
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The engine is in and running OK, no check engine lights.

We took it on a couple of gentle trips (no running it wot) even a literal trip to grandma's house.

I'm a beginner at tuning and logging, what I was able to make out so far seems OK, like one of the parameters, A/F Learning #1 didn't go above 4.5%.
It was reading knock from the knock sum parameter, but reading about it looks like that at low load and rpm it's more likely phantom stuff.

Something that is confusing is what ecu, logger, and cars files to use. the prominent ones are out of date. The newer ones I found though didn't seem to work well with romraider, gives some error messages.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:46 PM   #96
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Default EJ20X into a 2004 Baja Turbo

Well, I finally got back to it and retimed the engine to stock. There is no engine noise when turning over by hand so I donít think it has bent valves. I did a compression test and itís 125psi on both the right side cylinders and 145psi on both the left side cylinders. Which the spec is 160-189 with a 7psi variance. Not great but it should still run normally.
It doesnít, however. If you hold down the throttle it runs like itís misfiring on all cylinders.
I also checked fuel pressure. I installed an aftermarket adjustable reg and set it to 50psi. No change.
I replaced all the injectors with my stock yellows, that I know are fine. No change.
No codes until you plug in the green diag connectors, then I get a
P0502
P0503
P0851
P1152
P1153
P1518
Which I hear is normal.
So Iím at a total loss. I donít know what else to check.
I guess Iím taking it back to exchange it. I donít know what else to do.

Last edited by Zadok; 05-21-2019 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:54 PM   #97
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Where did you guys put the grounds?
Maybe itís a ground issue?
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:05 PM   #98
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It sounds weird, my Baja is out getting some paint, I can check the grounds in the next day or so, but not today.

My memory on the grounds was that I had at least one to the block, and one to the top of each head. But I don't know more beyond that.

The compression doesn't sound great, but I'm not sure what these motors really need to run.

I've had old Suzuki bikes that ran ok/crappy with mid 80 psi readings, but these motors aren't there same I'm guessing.

I'll have to reread your earlier posts tonight, did this motor have an issue with one of the cam gears when you picked it up?
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:20 AM   #99
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Nope, but it did have an issue with me the idiot. I took the intake Manifold off to paint it and screwed it up so badly that I had to try to strip it and start over, not an easy task on a plastic one. So I got flustered and was under pressure to have it together and running before we went on vacation 2 weeks ago, due to the 30 day startup warranty running out. Long story short, I pinched the right side head ground under the intake manifold and there was a big leak. Thatís why it didnít run. Again, idiot. .
I figured it out the other day when fuel vapors & smoke weíre coming out of the top of the engine while I was forcing it to run.
Thanks for all your help guys.
Now I just have to retest the compression to make sure itís ok. FSM says stock pressure should be 165-190. If I have 155 or higher, Iím calling it good enough.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:05 AM   #100
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Glad to hear it was a small thing! We've all done dumb little mistakes. At least I know I have!

Good luck with the compression test, Hope the rest goes smooth.
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