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08-17-2018, 03:33 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
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Tri-State
Location: Jersey burbs
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DOHC EJ Cylinder 4 Combustion Chamber Cooling kit
Anyone purchased this cooling hose for Cylinder 4 chamber from GetaDomeTune.com ?
Seems to be a very clever idea as it offers a simple solution to a known engine issue due to higher detonation risk in #4 chamber. Install seems straightforward too. I am looking for feedback from early adapters. Are there any negatives of doing this mod? See product description and site link below. Cylinder 4 Chamber Cooling System GR/VA/08+ LGT Fitment http://shop.getadomtune.com/shop.get...8-lgt-fitment/ Cylinder 4 Chamber Cooling System GR/VA/08+ LGT Fitment Description Industry first DOHC EJ Cylinder 4 Combustion Chamber Cooling kit increases coolant flow in the LH head to improve reliability by reducing detonation causing hot spots, reducing EGT delta and improving overall cooling system performance. This is for all 08+ Impreza and Legacy which require a longer hose than pre 08 cars. Each kit contains: 1x Coolant pipe assembled with a stainless steel T, high grade silicon hose, Stainless Pinch clamps, Custom machined and anodized 6061 fitting.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Last edited by redrexmeister; 08-17-2018 at 03:38 PM. |
08-17-2018, 04:19 PM | #2 |
NASIOC Supporter
Member#: 30669
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: USA, North NJ, 07456
Vehicle:1998 Legacy 2.5GT Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT |
Silicon is used for making computer chips, silicone is used for seals and hose (or "titty upgrades" in the past, now, saline)
I think the biggest issue "may" be intake airflow or fueling to that cylinder, likely a coolant hose is a bandaid. I never tried it or saw it, so, who knows? Didn't see where this attaches. Looks like $10 in parts wholesale. How about try it and report back? |
08-17-2018, 05:17 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
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NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:2006 Impreza WRX STI WR Blue |
I always weigh options like this in terms of how much development went into them.
FHI designed the EJ platform some 20+ years back and have refined it using modern CAD and other engineering simulations. This company guessed that a hose would do a better job than Subaru managed to do. I don't really see how this would help from a heat transfer and fluids standpoint. It's a good 4 more spots where a leak could occur, however. |
08-18-2018, 01:53 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 111692
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Jersey burbs
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reverse cooling hose
If you watch video posted at the bottom of the product description page, Dom makes an argument that Cylinder 4 issues are mainly caused by insufficient cooling of the cylinder head area. In another video he shows with IR probe that the reverse cooling hose mod helps to cool that area by 3-4 degrees K, which is actually huge.
Assuming Dom's theory is right, the kit does help to decrease knock by dropping the temp in the cylinder 4 which is the most prone to detonation due to Subaru's poor design decision to keep just one knock sensor on EJ motor (FA DIT series motors have two knock sensors). I'd be curious to hear from the engine builders and tuners regarding this reverse cooling kit. If there are people who already use please do chime in to give your perspective. |
08-18-2018, 02:55 PM | #5 | ||
NASIOC Supporter
Member#: 30669
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: USA, North NJ, 07456
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Hey, I have no issues with being proven wrong. We all learn. |
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08-20-2018, 05:49 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:2011 WRX WRB |
I think this is a solid idea and the proof is in the video that the cylinder head temperature does drop a significant amount just at the surface and at idle. Removing heat at cylinder 4 in the combustion chamber should help with det control.
I would have like to have seen a temp check of the head area on the other cylinders though just for a baseline. Like does cylinder 3's temp increase or cylinder 2? etc etc. |
08-20-2018, 06:58 PM | #7 |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
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I actually just had this installed in my GR STI by a local shop that sells them. Does it work? I'm not sure, but they use them in all their new builds and they back it up 100%. IMO ~$200 (cost of part plus install) is worth the peace of mind.
I'm actually curious to see if anyone else aside from Dom himself has done tests with the part installed. |
08-20-2018, 07:27 PM | #8 |
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Billings, MT
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I've seen successful head cooling mods used in Terminators as well. If it's a measurable drop in temperature it's not going to do anything but help.
For $90 I'll probably end up trying it myself.. |
08-20-2018, 07:36 PM | #9 |
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MWSOC
Vehicle:2004 WRX Wagon Hybrid 6MT Swapped WRB |
been looking into these as well planning on picking one up soon for next time my intercooler comes off
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08-22-2018, 06:29 AM | #10 | |
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Location: Jersey burbs
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08-22-2018, 08:06 AM | #11 | |
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MAIC
Location: Lovettsville, Virginia
Vehicle:2008 Impreza WRX STi Silver |
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I'll try this on my GR since I'll be doing a fairly large overhaul in the next couple weeks before I redyno. Worst case scenario is I have a coolant hose I didn't really need in the first place. No harm, no foul. |
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08-22-2018, 02:01 PM | #12 |
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I'm starting to come around in terms of believing this could be a worthwhile modification - I see the theory in it; basically, it replicates the turbo-side cooling circuit. What I would *like* to see, though, is something better than an IR temperature read of the cylinder 4 temperatures (logging a new sensor, etc.).
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08-22-2018, 03:14 PM | #13 | |
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08-22-2018, 04:54 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Do you guys see any negatives of installing this kit? If there are no negatives (exc. potential leak) I will buy the part and install it myself.
As I learned from social media, one of our popular local Suby shops started to offer this mod, their install price is well over $300... I guess due to product novelty . Dom apparently had the install video, but had to take it down as some people became confused thinking that install requires pulling out the motor. In Dom's install video the motor was out only because he worked on rebuilding someone's engine, and it was easier to shoot the video that way. The instructions on the site clearly indicate that no engine pulling is necessary. If people could post pictures of the mod install process in this thread it would be really helpful. Thanks! |
08-22-2018, 06:30 PM | #15 |
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MAIC
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I will be using this product myself on our next EJ shop car. Dom has been in the Subaru game a long time, and one thing I can say for sure, is that he does his homework and is very data driven. If the product didn't work as advertised, he wouldn't be offering it. Based on what I've seen and heard, it's worth every penny.
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08-22-2018, 06:50 PM | #16 | ||||
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In the following picture you can see the delta is much smaller even after a hard drive. Quote:
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Last edited by MPS-Dom; 08-22-2018 at 07:51 PM. |
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08-22-2018, 06:54 PM | #17 | |
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Think about it: Reverse cooling kept the head cooler and allowed higher compression ratios. Aluminum heads allowed higher compression ratios because they wicked the heat away from the cylinder faster. My mod is proven to cool the head (allowing it to wick more heat from the chamber), as shown by both EGTs and Surface temps, that means it's just providing improved reverse cooling and aluminum head benefits. No other data should be needed. However, many customers have written me about more balanced temps, lower operating temps, near elimination of random knock events etc. I don't know what else to provide to the public. |
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08-22-2018, 06:56 PM | #18 |
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08-22-2018, 07:11 PM | #19 |
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This is the "general" path of coolant from supply to discharge. It enters at the bottom of the block, moves along the lower cylinder cooling jacket and into the head. From the head it goes up around the chambers and out into the upper cylinder cooling jacket and out the top to the crossover pipe. You can clearly see how the coolant starts at the very front, is biased towards cyl2 and has very little driving head forcing it over the back of the head by cylinder 4. It is also a cramped supply flow path when compared to that of the RH head. here you can see the RH head has a very balanced distribution of coolant to both cylinders. You can also see that the feed is not restricted like the LH head. See how much more room there is at this supply port? This is the path I'm adding. The size of the hole in the fitting at the back of the head is much smaller than the available diameter because I don't want to remove flow from other cylinders or make your heater core ineffective by reducing the DP across the heater core dramatically. Testing has shown that this is made at the correct size and is doing everything I wanted it to do and more. Please watch my video on the product release. Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of the intake manifold used. Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of the exhaust manifold used. Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of IAT, Intercooling, tuning etc. Cylinder 4 fails first regardless of EMS or fuel setup. *unless you intentionally add more fuel and remove timing from cylinder 4 of course. You'd have to give it more fuel than other cylinders and less timing. That all proves a huge imbalance. What's the source of the imbalance? Inadequate Cooling. Which I fixed. Last edited by MPS-Dom; 08-22-2018 at 07:42 PM. |
08-22-2018, 07:37 PM | #20 |
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I'm not sure if you can actually see it unless you remove the intercooler. I haven't been able to find an angle where it's visible at least. Next time I have my intercooler off I'll snap a photo. Otherwise, I saw a photo of this installed somewhere online. I'll see if I can find it.
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08-23-2018, 09:27 AM | #21 |
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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08-23-2018, 11:43 AM | #22 |
NASIOC Supporter
Member#: 30669
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: USA, North NJ, 07456
Vehicle:1998 Legacy 2.5GT Silver Sleeper BK, 5MT |
OK, I am not an ME or similar.
Most of your videos, make sense. I have a sorta built 2.5L 98 MAF based NA Legacy using an STi block with higher CR pistons. Mostly for mid range power since pulling 1200+lb trailers. No real tuning available unless change ECU, piggyback or standalone. Son has a 04 RS with full 05 STi swap, mild mods. What kit should we look at? As I said before, does not look like it hurts, may be worth looking at. Son will have engine out next week. I can pull mine anytime. Didn't see install directions, no clue what is involved in installing your mod. Curious, more for my son. |
08-23-2018, 11:59 AM | #23 |
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Any plans to make these kits fit MY's earlier than 08.
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08-23-2018, 12:16 PM | #24 |
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08-23-2018, 12:33 PM | #25 | |
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Dom - If I am reading your graphs correctly, while you kit brings down the cylinder #4 temp, it also causes the temps to rise in cylinders #1, #2, & #3. Looks like your kit is bring all cylinder temps in alignment with each other to reduce "spots" of hot & cold. Is this correct or am I reading your chart wrong? This looks like a worthy mod, especially for the price |
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