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Old 02-10-2010, 11:59 PM   #1
shikataganai
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At the Track Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid

Source: Autoblog.com's Geneva Preview

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Originally Posted by Autoblog
In an interesting about-face, Porsche has revealed the first images and details on its new racer, the 911 GT3 R Hybrid.

Based on the rear-drive 911 GT3 R that's set to take to the track in privateer hands later this year, the GT3 R Hybrid utilizes a rear-mounted, 480-hp 4.0-liter flat-six in conjunction with two electric motors that drive the front wheels. Residing in the space normally reserved for the passenger seat sits a flywheel, which harnesses kinetic energy under braking and can spin upwards of 40,000 rpm. Once enough energy is stored, the system lets loose up to 120 kilowatts – approximately 160 horsepower – to the front wheels in six to eight second bursts that are controlled by a steering wheel-mounted button.

Porsche apparently hasn't released official performance specs, but the GT3 R Hybrid's world debut will take place at the Geneva Motor Show before it hits the track for its motorsports debut at the Nürburgring 24 Hours on May 15. Devised as a rolling "racing laboratory," after the Hybrid takes to the Green Hell this year, Porsche plans to assault the 24 Hours of LeMans in a refined version in 2012, just as the sanctioning body begins to favor hybrids. Now about that "no hybrids" thing...
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:26 AM   #2
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Now that's a hybrid I can get behind.
I wonder how much it weighs or if it has a gyroscopic effect for the handling.

Also, that can't be good in a crash to have several hundred pounds of metal spinning at 40,000rpm sitting next to you.
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:57 AM   #3
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Wow, scared me for a second - KERS is awesome! That ain't no Prius!
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywatcher View Post
Now that's a hybrid I can get behind.
I wonder how much it weighs or if it has a gyroscopic effect for the handling.

Also, that can't be good in a crash to have several hundred pounds of metal spinning at 40,000rpm sitting next to you.
You have a link on the extra weight?
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:26 AM   #5
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A porsche that winds itself like a watch...interesting but unnecessary
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bemani View Post
You have a link on the extra weight?
he was probably just exaggerating about the weight. ANYTHING spinning at 40K RPMs that close to you isnt safe. But then again, racing is generally not the safest sport :P
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:19 AM   #7
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If cost is not a huge concern (and it wouldn't be for a one-off research project), there are plenty of ways to make a high rpm flywheel safe. You can use copious amounts of Kevlar to contain any debris, or you can use steel or composite wire wound around a small solid core instead of a solid metal disc.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:12 AM   #8
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Pretty pictures and all, but not very elegantly designed. Granted I'm sure it helps with weight distribution plopping it in the passenger seat, but still, seems cludgey [sic?].
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:29 AM   #9
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I imagine the relative weight of the disk to the car will eliminate most gyroscope concerns. Also on that axis it won't affect handling going left/right.

I'm curious about the bearings they're using to spin the disk to 40k rpm. I've heard ppl talking about doing this in F1 cars for awhile now; just enough to give it a quick boost in the low end after hard braking. Here, they are describing it as a boost button or something. One more thing for the driver to worry about.

I'd like to see some data on the weight of that thing, but 160kW is very impressive for such a small package. It can be charged much faster than batteries - almost like ultra capacitors. Glad to see hybrids are making their way to motorsports.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:04 AM   #10
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I'm willing to bet that the system uses a pair of counter-rotating flywheels, which negates the gyroscopic effects, since the angular momenta cancel each other out. The flywheel based KERS systems people were proposing for F1 a few years back were the same way.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:20 AM   #11
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So in mullet terms we're talking about a 160 shot for your porsche?
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:32 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
So in mullet terms we're talking about a 160 shot for your porsche?


Exactly what I was thinking.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:37 AM   #13
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That's cool. It's like the "turbo" button in video games.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:08 AM   #14
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so is there a 'turbo power' button?

I like to see the performance applications of the hybrid technology.

Nick
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:43 AM   #15
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640hp electro-nitrous AWD Porsche ain't bad in my book.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
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640hp electro-nitrous AWD Porsche ain't bad in my book.
+12345!!!!
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:17 PM   #17
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I'll wait for Top Gear's impressions on this one.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:20 PM   #18
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Autoblog: Videos: Porsche 911 GT3 R Hybrid uses Williams F1 flywheel KERS



Quote:
The hybrid drive system being used by Porsche in its new 911 GT3 R isn't what you find in your average Prius or Fusion. Instead of a battery for energy storage, the 911 will use an electro-mechanical flywheel. The system being used was actually developed by the Williams formula one team and its Williams Hybrid Power subsidiary.

The system is comprised of an electrically driven flywheel and a motor/generator on the gearbox. During braking the gearbox mounted generator drives the flywheel to spin it up to 40,000 rpm. When needed for extra acceleration, the flywheel drives its integrated motor/generator to spin provide power back to the unit on the gearbox.

In the case of the 911, a pair motor generators are actually on the front wheels instead of the single unit on the gearbox as it was on the Williams F1 car last year. This provides more regenerative braking capability as well as all wheel drive.

The flywheel itself is made of a composite material that is infused with magnetic particles when it is being molded. This actually acts as the permanent magnet for the motor, helping to keep the overall weight down. The result is a very efficient system with less mass than a battery system and the ability to absorb energy more rapidly than a battery similar to an ultracapaitor. Like ultracapacitors the downside for automotive applications is limited energy storage capacity.

As a result, electric driving is limited meaning that this really behaves more like a mild hybrid system than a strong hybrid. However, the power output is closer to what is available from most strong hybrids. Williams Hybrid Power is working with a number of automakers on implementing its flywheel system although only Porsche has been publicly identified. Porsche's has setup a microsite for its new Hybrid racecar, and for more details, make the jump for the release and a video explaining the system, along with two promo videos.
Hotness. Again, video at the link: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/11/v...flywheel-kers/ . Also note the Porsche microsite for the car: http://www.porsche.com/microsite/int...rnational.aspx
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skywatcher View Post
Now that's a hybrid I can get behind.
I wonder how much it weighs or if it has a gyroscopic effect for the handling.

Also, that can't be good in a crash to have several hundred pounds of metal spinning at 40,000rpm sitting next to you.
I assure you that several hundred pounds are not spinning at 40000 rpm. Probably less than 20. You do know your turbo in your subie is about 1.5 feet from your right leg, and it spins over 70000 rpm.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I assure you that several hundred pounds are not spinning at 40000 rpm. Probably less than 20. You do know your turbo in your subie is about 1.5 feet from your right leg, and it spins over 70000 rpm.
Up that number a bit. Turbos spin stoopid fast.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
Up that number a bit. Turbos spin stoopid fast.
Yup. For smallish ones you could be looking at easily over 200,000 rpm
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:23 PM   #22
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looking at the tech pic, I thought that was a chaparral style street sucker.
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