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Old 02-02-2016, 01:04 PM   #201
rob1n1
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BMW did a lot of marketing to imply this was the successor to the E30 M3. So I blame them for most of this.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:22 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by KoalaSlim View Post
I'll not give a pass to the wooden steering feel and poor feedback of the new cars.
I mean, literally all cars are suffering from a lack of steering feedback in view of electronic steering racks. Don't want an electronic rack, again, don't blame BMW, blame your government.

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I'll not give a pass for throwing a generic motor in their M cars. If it's gotta be Turbo, FINE, but make it freaking special then!
Generic motor? It has a bottom end shared by only one other car. Don't let the "N55" designation fool you. It's a new motor.

Once again, we all want an old revvy M motor of old...but the fact that they're not possible is not BMW's fault.

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Old 02-02-2016, 01:24 PM   #203
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It is arguably one of the better driver's cars out there and review after review says it's comparable to the E46 chassis,
As much as I love the M235 in today's world, it does not feel anything like an E46. Well, besides size...which is where those comments originate from. The F series doesn't offer a ton in terms of chassis feel compared to their older platforms, especially the steering.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:28 PM   #204
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I'm saying something really special, that reeks of motorsport and sounds the part.
I think you're missing our point. There's a comparatively small group of enthusiasts (us) who want that. Most people don't.

BMW is hardly alone in not delivering that. Despite that, you seem to be singling them out for delivering letdowns, when in reality, every manufacturer is...in large part due to necessity...the other part being the consumer.

Face it, there just aren't a lot of true car guys out there anymore. Or perhaps more accurately, what defines a car guy is changing.

More interested in numbers and laptimes vs. smiles/mile.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:32 PM   #205
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BMW did a lot of marketing to imply this was the successor to the E30 M3. So I blame them for most of this.
Just like they did with the 1M/2002.

We were all excited when they talked about a 4 cylinder, back to basics sports car for the M2. Instead, again, we got an M4 Jr.

Not the car many of us wanted, but what I'm sure will be a fun little car none the less.

For me, the M2 isn't the weekend toy I once thought it would. It's a daily now. Need to look elsewhere, and in reality, back at least a decade for the weekend toy now.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:40 PM   #206
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On that note, i can secure a spot as the 4th M2 in Pittsburgh at MSRP if i'd like it. Not sure if i want to do this or wait a few more months and hope to get some more knocked off the top.
I'd probably go for it now. I think the chances of getting anything significant lopped off of MSRP is pretty slim to none considering the M2 hype, especially for the first year. BMW dealers, like most, seem to be far more willing to deal on their inventory, not those that order (like myself). Considering the desirability of the M2, I think the only ones that will remain on the dealer lots are those with silly markups.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:49 PM   #207
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As much as I love the M235 in today's world, it does not feel anything like an E46. Well, besides size...which is where those comments originate from. The F series doesn't offer a ton in terms of chassis feel compared to their older platforms, especially the steering.
Admittedly I've only driven an M235 briefly, though rather aggressively, and felt that the steering was quite good and is very difficult to tell it's electric accept when changing modes. It's not as good as the manual rack in my old 1990 CRX Si, but it's better than my 2003 G35 which was hydraulic, double wishbone, aluminum parts, and quite good. It's FAR better than my WRX's I drive a ton of rental cars for work know just how bad electric steering can be. Most really do suck.

With that said, the days of hydraulic steering are over. Fewer and fewer cars are using it and automakers are improving it constantly. Porsche and BMW seem to offer some of the best feel. The Koreans and Toyota some of the worst feel. Totally rubber band like.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:28 PM   #208
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I think you're missing our point. There's a comparatively small group of enthusiasts (us) who want that. Most people don't.
There was a comparatively small group of enthusiasts back when they built the e30 and e36 as well. And given how the older cars are becoming more and more popular, I'd argue MORE people are clamoring for a drivers car.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:45 PM   #209
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There was a comparatively small group of enthusiasts back when they built the e30 and e36 as well. And given how the older cars are becoming more and more popular, I'd argue MORE people are clamoring for a drivers car.
Ehhh...I think the group paying stupid money for E30 and E36 are those that wanted the cars back in the 1980s and 1990s, but couldn't afford them. Now they have money to burn and will pay whatever to bring back that nostalgia. It's not because of the "performance" for the US models, that's for sure and those that have the cars rarely drive them hard for fear of breaking their expensive, hard to find, pricey parts. Go drive an E30 or E36 M3 and it will be become very apparent just how good cars have become. For many old cars, that "raw" feeling was because of stiff suspensions to handle the flimsy chassis, which also created more vibration and rawness. Cars these days are incredibly stiff this can run softer suspensions then years past. Cars of yesterday feel and sound like tin cans.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:56 PM   #210
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Default SPY PICS: Is this BMWs last rear-drive M2?

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SPY PICS: Is this BMWs last rear-drive M2?


BMWs original 1 Series hatch and 2 Series Coupe and Convertible have long swum against the tide of front- and all-wheel drive rivals in the premium small-car segment by being rear-drive a configuration that makes the M2 Coupe so successful.

But when the Bavarian car-maker launched its first people-mover, the 2 Series Active Tourer, in 2014 based on its all-new UKL front/all-wheel drive platform, which it said would underpin no fewer than 22 BMW and MINI models accounting for 40 per cent of BMW Group production by 2020, the rear-drive future of the sporty 2 Series suddenly became unclear.

UKL is a modular platform that can be used for cars between 3.8 and 4.5 metres long, and mimics Mercedes-Benzs MFA platform for the A-, B-, CLA and GLA-Class.

Since the 2 Series Active Tourer emerged BMW has produced a number of UKL-based models, including the latest X1, the entire third-generation MINI range and the China-only 1 Series sedan, with next years new X2 and redesigned 1 Series to follow.



Officially, BMW says its yet to make a decision on the mechanicals of the next-generation 2 Series due in 2019, but its clear from these fresh spy shots that a minor facelift of the current M2 is imminent, and it could be the last rear-drive example of the breed.

BMWs decision to backflip on its long-standing commitment to rear-drive except for the 3 Series and upwards followed a 2010 poll in which 80 per cent of 1 Series customers said they didnt know which wheels their car drove, and its almost certain the next M5 super-sedan will go all-wheel drive in its quest to match the acceleration performance of chief rivals like the Mercedes-AMG E 63.

We asked BMWs global sales and marketing boss, Dr Ian Robertson, what this meant for smaller models than the 3 Series including the next 2 Series and M2 and his answer was less than clear.

Weve committed to rear-wheel drive being an ongoing part of our business, he said at last weeks Geneva motor show.

[But] I really see all-wheel drive coming more and more into the premium segment. In many markets were selling the sedans now with four-wheel drive as well.

If you drew a line from Philadelphia to Arizona, north of it theyre all 4WD and south of it theyre 2WD, so we will have rear-wheel drive in our segment.

I wouldnt say 3 Series is the boundary. Ill let you ponder that but we will see more and more AWDs.

If youre in the market for a rear-drive M2, our advice is join the queue now.


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Old 03-18-2017, 06:02 PM   #211
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Better yet do what Audi is going to do. Put Quattro on the trunk and Fwd up front with whimpy axle to back that will read Data from a satellite.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:47 PM   #212
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I can understand AWD being more prevalent with their mainstream cars but I don't understand why M-cars would have to be AWD. Camaros and Mustangs continue to sell like hotcakes so it's not like there isn't a market for a RWD sports car in North America.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:17 PM   #213
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I can understand AWD being more prevalent with their mainstream cars but I don't understand why M-cars would have to be AWD. Camaros and Mustangs continue to sell like hotcakes so it's not like there isn't a market for a RWD sports car in North America.
Because the M cars above the M3/4 are putting too much power down to make it usable with RWD. It's not like the M5 and M6 are about purist driving anymore, so why not make it put power down?
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:34 PM   #214
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Lame trannies, turbos, AWD - because the 0-60 - thanks spec-heads.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:22 PM   #215
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Lame trannies, turbos, AWD - because the 0-60 - thanks spec-heads.
You're just an analog guy in a digital age
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:22 PM   #216
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Tire burnouts and dinosaurs.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:05 PM   #217
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Because the M cars above the M3/4 are putting too much power down to make it usable with RWD. It's not like the M5 and M6 are about purist driving anymore, so why not make it put power down?
Wat?

I guess the corvette should go awd too, and the viper, hell might as well throw the mustang v8's in that category too.

Also, define usable. Yeah, if you're the **** boy who bought this car to got WOT at the stop light, awd might be a better option for you. But let's also be realistic, most people who the new m2/3/4 daily drive these things and just want a fancy performance car that they never utilize. Adding awd to the equation will do nothing more for the majority of their customers except add $10-$15k to the overall price.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:11 PM   #218
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How about some proper wide rubbers instead of AWD with "drift mode"
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:33 PM   #219
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Wat?

I guess the corvette should go awd too, and the viper, hell might as well throw the mustang v8's in that category too.

Also, define usable. Yeah, if you're the **** boy who bought this car to got WOT at the stop light, awd might be a better option for you. But let's also be realistic, most people who the new m2/3/4 daily drive these things and just want a fancy performance car that they never utilize. Adding awd to the equation will do nothing more for the majority of their customers except add $10-$15k to the overall price.
The Stingray makes 450 HP, the M5 makes 550 HP and that's before anything like the comp package. It's also a sports car, not intended to be used in all seasons... an M5 is a fast family cruiser, spinning 550+ HP in the rain is not a practical car.

Could it benefit from AWD? Yes. Will it really lose anything with AWD? Nope.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:34 PM   #220
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How about some proper wide rubbers instead of AWD with "drift mode"
I believe the F10 comes with 295 rears. Kind of running out of room to put rubber on. Remember, it still has to be a luxury cruiser. It's not some track car that can run 325s out back because race car.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:26 PM   #221
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The Stingray makes 450 HP, the M5 makes 550 HP and that's before anything like the comp package. It's also a sports car, not intended to be used in all seasons... an M5 is a fast family cruiser, spinning 550+ HP in the rain is not a practical car.

Could it benefit from AWD? Yes. Will it really lose anything with AWD? Nope.
You do know that the peddle on the right doesn't have to be pushed to the floor all the time, right?
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:41 PM   #222
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I believe the F10 comes with 295 rears. Kind of running out of room to put rubber on. Remember, it still has to be a luxury cruiser. It's not some track car that can run 325s out back because race car.
You can run 305's on stockers. It helps some. I wouldn't run Cup's though - car is just too heavy - they wouldn't last very long.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:07 PM   #223
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You do know that the peddle on the right doesn't have to be pushed to the floor all the time, right?
this is an interesting detail about powerful cars. For most of the time that you are driving them, you're only using a tiny bit of the pedal travel. It's like you have an egg under there all the time and you only crush the egg when all the conditions are right.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:21 PM   #224
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this is an interesting detail about powerful cars. For most of the time that you are driving them, you're only using a tiny bit of the pedal travel. It's like you have an egg under there all the time and you only crush the egg when all the conditions are right.
I love about my lowly WRX that you can just keep your foot down and just steer away...
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:51 PM   #225
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I love about my lowly WRX that you can just keep your foot down and just steer away...
People do the same thing in a corolla.
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