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Old 03-25-2018, 09:05 PM   #1
eshiao
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Default Help with Slippage with new clutch

Car: 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport (5spd Manual Tranny, 2.5L EJ253). All oem components/reman Subaru parts.

New clutch: Exedy OEM clutch kit

New flywheel: EXEDY oem fly wheel

Throwout bearing/Snout: PDM TSK01

So you brilliant people might be able to help me because I'm at a complete loss.

TL;DR: What would cause a clutch to slip in a 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport (5spd Manual Tranny, 2.5L EJ253) if I installed a new flywheel, new OEM Exedy Clutch kit, and a 3rd party tranny snout Sleeve +oversized throwout bearing?

Or, if I held the brakes on the car while it was in the air and in fifth gear, should I be able to turn the engine by hand via the crankshaft?

────────

So the back story of this is that I took my Impreza to a shop on Boulder, CO for a new clutch a little over 40k miles ago. The Subaru had 150(ish)k on the odo and is currently sitting at about 190k.

Recently my throwout bearing started chirping so I decided to pull the engine, do all the belts + spark plugs, put in a new clutch since I had the engine out anyways, and also upgrade the OEM throwout bearing with PDM's TSK01 transmission snout sleeve with its oversized throwout bearing. The local tuner arm of my local dealership recommended the TSK01 because the old tranny snout is made of aluminum and once you wear down the surface, it'll slowly eat through all subsequent oem throwout bearings. The TSK01 fixes that by being a stainless steel sleeve that is screwed on over the worn aluminum tranny snout that the new oversized throwout bearing rides on.

As far as I can tell, the new TSK01 throwout bearing has the same dimensions as the OEM throwout bearing with the exception of the inner diameter being a bit larger to accommodate the stainless steel sleeve.

I pulled the engine, put in a new clutch kit (reused the old flywheel), installed the TSK01, put the engine back in, but when I tried to reverse out of the garage, there was an atrocious grinding sound as I slowly took my foot off the clutch pedal. Same thing happened in first. When I tried to just dump the clutch in first to see if I could burn off any possibly grease on the flywheel, the grinding sound continued and there wasn't very much (if at all) power being delivered to the wheels.

This led me to believe that the clutch was slipping for some reason. So I pulled the engine again and this time put in a new flywheel with the new clutch kit along with the TSK01 tranny sleeve. So now with completely new components, I put the engine back in the car, mated it to the tranny, LEFT EVERYTHING ELSE UNBOLTED, then put the car into fifth and tried to hand crank the engine. It was definitely hard to turn but by hand cranking the engine, I was able to turn the rear wheels.

Now that I knew that the clutch was sticking at least a little bit to the flywheel, I tried to hold the brakes down while trying to hand turn the engine. In theory, and you guys can correct me here, I should not be able to turn the engine if I'm in fifth with the brakes applied. Problem being, I was able to turn the crank despite the wheels being held by my brakes.

Putting a Torque wrench on the crankshaft as I turned it, I found that I could get something around 50 ft lb on the crankshaft before it started moving.

I've pulled the clutch fork rubber boot look inside in an attempt to ensure that the throwout bearing isn't applying any pressure to the clutch pressure plate teeth while it's resting in its disengaged position and that looks fine. That means that for whatever reason, my pressure plate is allowing my clutch disk to slip under normal circumstances without the throwout bearing applying pressure to it.

Does anyone have any ideas on why I'd even be able to hand turn the engine while it's in fifth and I'm holding the brakes down?

Alternatively, is there a way to test if my clutch is working with only the engine bolted to the transmission and everything else in the engine bay unbolted?

Thanks so much in advance!
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:30 PM   #2
Vancouver98STi
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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1998 JDM Impreza STi
White GF8 wagon

Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by eshiao View Post

I pulled the engine, put in a new clutch kit (reused the old flywheel), installed the TSK01, put the engine back in, but when I tried to reverse out of the garage, there was an atrocious grinding sound as I slowly took my foot off the clutch pedal. Same thing happened in first. When I tried to just dump the clutch in first to see if I could burn off any possibly grease on the flywheel, the grinding sound continued and there wasn't very much (if at all) power being delivered to the wheels.

So I pulled the engine again...
When you pulled the engine the second time, were you not able to see any evidence of what was causing this "atrocious grinding sound"?

I'm just guessing, but could it be an internal tranny/transfer case/differential issue, and not the clutch at all?
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:43 PM   #3
eshiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver98STi View Post
When you pulled the engine the second time, were you not able to see any evidence of what was causing this "atrocious grinding sound"?

I'm just guessing, but could it be an internal tranny/transfer case/differential issue, and not the clutch at all?
Yea when I pulled the engine the second time, everything looked fine. Clutch oriented the right way, everything torqued down to spec, life should have been good!

After sitting on the issue the past couple hours, I have a Sinking suspicion that you might be right - it might just be the tranny being broke somehow....

Any ways you can think of where I can test the tranny?
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:45 PM   #4
CosmoTheCat
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Clutch disk in backwards?

edit, you replied while I was reading.

Only thing I can think of is the snout is pushing the TOB into the disc to cause the slip, unless perhaps something was broken during R&R, if it was fine prior.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:50 PM   #5
Vancouver98STi
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1998 JDM Impreza STi
White GF8 wagon

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eshiao View Post

Any ways you can think of where I can test the tranny?
I'm afraid that's beyond my expertise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eshiao View Post

So the back story of this is that I took my Impreza to a shop on Boulder, CO for a new clutch a little over 40k miles ago. The Subaru had 150(ish)k on the odo and is currently sitting at about 190k.

Recently my throwout bearing started chirping so I decided to pull the engine, do all the belts + spark plugs, put in a new clutch since I had the engine out anyways...
You mentioned "chirping", but were there any grinding sounds prior to you pulling the engine at 190k?
.

Last edited by Vancouver98STi; 03-25-2018 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:55 PM   #6
eshiao
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Location: US
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Silver

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver98STi View Post
I'm afraid that's beyond my expertise.

Were there any grinding sounds prior to you pulling the engine at 190k?
No worries, I really appreciate the help thus far.

No, there wasn't any grinding sounds prior to pulling the engine the first time.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:02 AM   #7
Vancouver98STi
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Vehicle:
1998 JDM Impreza STi
White GF8 wagon

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eshiao View Post

No worries, I really appreciate the help thus far.
I'm afraid I'm too much of a Subie newb to offer much more help on this issue. Time for the experts to wade in.
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:11 PM   #8
HudsonBrown1
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I replaced mine with a light weight flywheel and stage one clutch, it felt funny at first like it was slipping but after the break in period it was perfectly fine. It too had the chirping sound but that was just the clutch not yet seeded to the flywheel.
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:38 PM   #9
Vancouver98STi
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Vehicle:
1998 JDM Impreza STi
White GF8 wagon

Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonBrown1 View Post

I replaced mine with a light weight flywheel and stage one clutch, it felt funny at first like it was slipping but after the break in period it was perfectly fine.
If you don't mind me asking... what light weight flywheel did you get, and for which car? The reason why I ask is that so many people have posted in this forum stating that they quite regretted installing a light weight flywheel.

I want to eventually install one mostly for autocross, but I'm a bit leery of it for street use after reading so many negative reports.
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