Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2006, 04:25 PM   #1
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default Dyno results with Alkycontrol 100% meth kit

I had my car tuned last saturday. Here's the link to the full write up- skip to page four:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1094764&page=4

Here's the results:

Comparison of my base line (stage2 Protune) run and final (PDX stage2 plus Meth Protune)



Here's the PDX stage2 compared with the PDX Meth tune:


I can say that my car is perfect right now. I love it! I think I turned Tim from PDX into a 100% Meth believer!!!!
I am now a meth addict!!!!!
This is on a 06 sti with a COBB Catted downpipe and COBB AP with an ALKYCONTROL kit....
Thank you Tim (PDX Tuning) and Julio (ALKYCONTROL)!!!!!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-11-2006, 04:32 PM   #2
tasq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 62362
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2005 wrx
CGM

Default

Nice numbers... Aren't you worried about corosion using 100%?
tasq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 05:35 PM   #3
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default

Thanks!
Everything in the kit is made to handle 100% meth, so the only things the meth touches that are stock parts are the throttle body, intake manifold, and the combustion chamber. I'm not worried about the Spec C 12L intercoolertank....
With a lot of other kits, the pumps and everything else aren't made to handle 100% meth and corrosion would be a concern. I've heard rumors that a lot of other kits are evolving to be able to handle 100% meth in the future.
The ALKYCONTROL kit is so thoroughly overbuilt, I have complete confidence in it's capabilities- so no worries here!
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2006, 07:16 PM   #4
kn0bby8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 97644
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Back In NY
Vehicle:
2006 WRX
Black

Default

What kind of dyno. You numbers look a little low.
I just put a vf39 on my 06 wrx with 50/50 meth distilled and I am hoping for over 300whp and around 350ftlb.
kn0bby8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2006, 11:14 PM   #5
pdxsilverwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54935
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Oregon
Default

Very cool, I plan on doing this soon. I already have the spec C tank.
pdxsilverwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 12:14 AM   #6
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default

That's how I started! Now all you ave to do is get the kit and drive over to Tim and have him tune it for you!
You'll be happy, I can gaurantee it!
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 08:24 AM   #7
dibblejr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 94070
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Dirty South
Vehicle:
05 LGT
PSM

Default

Keep hoping to reach those numbers. You are a little high.

Jay-R

Quote:
Originally Posted by kn0bby8 View Post
What kind of dyno. You numbers look a little low.
I just put a vf39 on my 06 wrx with 50/50 meth distilled and I am hoping for over 300whp and around 350ftlb.
dibblejr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 09:18 AM   #8
CMTech
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 121945
Join Date: Aug 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper in Seattle View Post
I've heard rumors that a lot of other kits are evolving to be able to handle 100% meth in the future.
There are other kits including ours that can handle 100% methanol right now. Its not Voodoo or rocket science. Its simply the seals in the pump. EPDM or BUNA can handle 100%. Pretty simple simple stuff.
CMTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 10:06 AM   #9
nater
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105543
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: New Orleans LA
Vehicle:
1965 Factory Five
Cobra, carbon fiber black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dibblejr View Post
Keep hoping to reach those numbers. You are a little high.

Jay-R
Those numbers are very reasonable... 2.5L + VF39 +meth should yeild those numbers...
nater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 12:31 PM   #10
dibblejr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 94070
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Dirty South
Vehicle:
05 LGT
PSM

Default

Yep, somehow I missed the 2.5L, you should be at least what you want.

Jay-R

Quote:
Originally Posted by nater View Post
Those numbers are very reasonable... 2.5L + VF39 +meth should yeild those numbers...
dibblejr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 02:12 PM   #11
pdxsilverwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54935
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Oregon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper in Seattle View Post
That's how I started! Now all you ave to do is get the kit and drive over to Tim and have him tune it for you!
You'll be happy, I can gaurantee it!
Yeah Tim tuned my WRX 4 or 5 times. I have spent way to much money there. Where did you get your kit from?
pdxsilverwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 02:31 PM   #12
Ultimate Collision Center
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 69072
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Peekskill
Default

very nice curves, love the tq...
Ultimate Collision Center is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2006, 12:28 AM   #13
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default

The dyno was a new eddy current mustang. I had previously had my car tuned by Christian from COBB on a mustang dyno that is supposedly a low reading dyno and I was only able to put out 289ft/lbs and 270hp on a protune from Christian. I took that same setup to Kito and only put down, around 240ft/lbs and 230hp. It was cooler during the PDX tuning two saturdays ago and my numbers were 49ft/lbs lower and about 40hp lower. I can't imagine that I lost that much hp and torque by adding lighter rims and a carbonfiber driveshaft..... It's definately a difference in the dynos...
Even Tim said that he thought that the numbers seemed low and offered to let me drive down to Portland and have him put it on his dynopack (or whatever dyno he has) for free just to get a comparable reading to the 50/50 kits he tunes all day long. He thought by the way everything was reacting, that my car would probably be up there in the numbers... I'm curious and would like to see what it does on a more generous dyno.
Ultimately, different dynos aren't really comparable- base line runs to final runs on the same day/same car/ constant weather/ same gas/ and all other variables being the same are the only ones that can be compared....
Basically, I love my car's capabilities right now- like my passing power while cruising at 70mph in 6th gear and being able to floor it to go around someone and pass them while thinking, "Damn!!! I'm accellerating really quickly! Look at how fast I just passed them!!!"
I bought my kit from Julio at Alkycontrol.com He's a great guy! There are other kits on the market that can run 100% meth, but when I figure out how to tune the meth on my other car, I'll be buying another kit from Julio at AlkyControl. Everything on the kit is overbuilt, and I like that idea!

James
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 02:23 PM   #14
klattery
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48503
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2004 STi ATP3071
Silver

Default

So if I read this right, you gained about 60whp across the top end (and more at lower RPMs) versus a protune map? I could see 60whp gain over an off the shelf map, but 60whp over a protune is AMAZING! That means 60whp just from injection. Is injection the only difference between the lines in the top chart?
klattery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 02:38 PM   #15
Doctor Subie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 115994
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Pacific NW
Vehicle:
2015 991 GTS
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by klattery View Post
So if I read this right, you gained about 60whp across the top end (and more at lower RPMs) versus a protune map? I could see 60whp gain over an off the shelf map, but 60whp over a protune is AMAZING! That means 60whp just from injection. Is injection the only difference between the lines in the top chart?

not just 'injection', but 100% meth injection, which is like running on race gas
Doctor Subie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 02:41 PM   #16
tasq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 62362
Join Date: May 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Denver, CO
Vehicle:
2005 wrx
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Subie View Post
not just 'injection', but 100% meth injection, which is like running on race gas
So is a 50/50 mix... There are minimal gains from running 100%
tasq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 06:18 PM   #17
klattery
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48503
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2004 STi ATP3071
Silver

Default

I agree with Tasq - we've seen little to show that 100% is much better than 50/50.

Also, the baseline looks low for a stage 2 Protune. 225 whp for a stage 2 protune on an STi is one heck of a heartbreaker dyno. I know stock STis put down 210-215 on tough dynos, and stage 2 OTS can be about 225-235, but I haven't seen a protune Stage 2 that low.

On a stage 2 VF39, where people have two maps (with and without injection)most people aren't seeing that much difference between the two maps. Maybe 15-20 whp at top and a lot of extra torque down low.

The low baseline coupled with the tremendous gain is why I wonder if that baseline is really a stage 2 protune.

Nice results (and no ill will), but I'd like to confirm the baseline.
klattery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 03:11 AM   #18
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default

If you read the linked posts, you will see that my initial Christian from Cobb tuningprotune was really conservative. At the time, he hadn't tuned any 06 sti's and thought maybe the 06's had larger injectors- when in fact they just run a higher fuel pressure. Because of that lack of certainty, he didn't tune my car to it's full potential. So when I had Tim from PDX tune it- he was able to tune much more agressively and was able to get this difference between his protune and Christians:

So that is the difference between the Christian from COBB tuning tune and Tim from PDX.
Now, if you look at the difference between the two different runs on the second of the first two graphs I posted- that is what the difference between a good thorough protune and the meth was.
Here's a qoute from Tim Bailey:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
Kito has a great facility.... the staff is great and the AWD dyno the best i've used in the PNW.

4 tunes total. All were without major issues. The real kick in the pants was the alcohol tune on Sleeper in seattle's STi. I'll let him post impressions but the numerical gains were freakin incredible. Then again, i think we used almost a gallon of alcohol for 10 to 12 full 4th gear pulls.

I'm going to put one of these alcohol mass delivery systems into my car.

Cheers
Tim
It can be found here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1094764&page=4
If you are aware of PDX tuning, they are one of the better tuning shops in PNW, and they are full-heartedly supporters of 50/50 injection kits- Tim was as impressed with the results having experienced as much as he has and tuned tons of non-100% kits. But, he's seen the light, and is now going to put one of these systems on his personal car...
Think about it...
Dyno results vary from every dyno- all that really matters is the base line numbers and the final numbers on the same dyno on the same day.
Hopefully, you get my point.
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 01:14 PM   #19
klattery
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 48503
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2004 STi ATP3071
Silver

Default

Thanks for the clarification, and no I didn't read your linked notes - sorry again.

So the bottom chart is what we should compare for with/without injection. Looks like about 40whp improvement across the top. Still very impressive.

Do you know what boost you are running on those two maps (with and without injection on the final PDX maps)?

Also, how is your controller setup for injection kick in and max spray?

Sorry for the questions, but I'd love to improve my setup to run 40whp more like you.
klattery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 04:31 PM   #20
hippy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 36528
Join Date: May 2003
Location: florida
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza Wrx
Silver

Default

What does the warning on your pump say?
hippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2006, 02:34 AM   #21
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
What does the warning on your pump say?
It says for use with PAC Controller only. Basically, the kit has a controller that utilizes the pump to it's full potential. The following is just my interpretation- for the correct answer, Julio at ALKYCONTROL.com could answer your questions:
The controller can activate at any boost pressure you desire- most people start giving the pump power around 8psi then have it ramp up to a certain max setting a chosen rate. Only the PAC controller is able to do this flawlessly and without any failures or other issues.
The way I have it set up is somewhat conservative, instead of getting a butt load of torque down low and having it carry all the way to redline, we have it so the alky doesn't come on until about 14psi- that's if I loose my COBB AP and can't change the tune if I were to run out of alky and couldn't change to the non-alky tune- I could drive with less than 14psi and be fine. NOT that I would ever let that happen....
From my understanding, we are only hitting about 19psi or so on the meth- no crazy EVO running 28-30psi. I should ask tim. He told me and I forgot... I think the meth tune stays at 19psi for most of the rev range before tapering off to 14 or 15 psi. I think the non meth tune brushes up to 19psi very briefly and then dropps down to safer levels. There was a lot of timing added by tim- I kept watching his face as he kept trying to find max torque, and it was similar to c16 tunes he's done.
My best advice, is get a tuner that can tune really well and go with 100% meth. If you are after great numbers, have it start to come on at 6psi and have it hold higher boost (20-22psi) longer in the rpm band, but be forwarned, as Tim repeatedly told me, if something goes wrong, you have about half a second to hear and react. Of course, with my "Mass meth deliery system, Tim said it may be possible that without the Meth, my car might not be able to even ignite the trace fuel fumes and nothing might happen....
Do whatever you feel comfortable with, I didn't want to go very aggressive becuase this is my daily driver... I know there is a lot more left in the kit, but I feel comfortable at where it is at. Not bad for a stock midpipe and catback!
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2006, 02:42 AM   #22
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default

This last weekend I went on a trip and followed some friends (another STI and an RX8) along some windy back roads leading towards the coast. It was a two hour drive, of full throttle second and third gear shifting up and down- It was absolutely incredible! We pretty much only stopped to let my friend let his girlfriend who has never gotten car sick before in her life, get some fresh air. It seriously was the most fun I've had in my car!
I also did a whole bunch of 0-130 runs, and a couple spirited drives here and there and ended up using about 3 gallons of METH. So I definately go through the stuff! I always carry an extra 1.5 gallons in addition to my 12L tank.
I really love my car!
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2006, 05:02 AM   #23
Sleeper in Seattle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101546
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
2004 FXT & 04 S2000
Silver & black

Default

Another Update:
The car is running great! I don't floor it as much as I used to , and on these cold nights, I still think my car is very fast.
When driving on the freeway, I leave it in sixth gear and don't bother to downshift to pass people, even when I need to pass quickly- the car has that much torque in sixth gear!
I love it!
I seem to be going through about 3 1/2 gallons of meth per month and I fill up my gas tank every 4-5 days averaging about 240-260 miles per tank. This weekend, I've only gotten 80 miles on the first half a tank of gas- but I've been having a little fun now that the snow is gone.
I'd say that I am still loving meth!
Sleeper in Seattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2006, 06:12 PM   #24
Davenow
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23676
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: de_dust and Orgrimar
Vehicle:
.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper in Seattle View Post
Thanks!
Everything in the kit is made to handle 100% meth, so the only things the meth touches that are stock parts are the throttle body, intake manifold, and the combustion chamber. I'm not worried about the Spec C 12L intercoolertank....
With a lot of other kits, the pumps and everything else aren't made to handle 100% meth and corrosion would be a concern. I've heard rumors that a lot of other kits are evolving to be able to handle 100% meth in the future.
The ALKYCONTROL kit is so thoroughly overbuilt, I have complete confidence in it's capabilities- so no worries here!
The SMC kit has been able to handle straight methanol for years.
Davenow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: TX: Alkycontrol progressive meth kit texas05sti Engine/Power/Exhaust 10 01-20-2008 11:51 AM
Feedback wanted: dyno results with AFR readings rexster Engine Management & Tuning 27 12-13-2005 04:51 PM
Dyno results with AZScoobie at MZM Performance Big Turkey Proven Power Bragging 21 08-04-2004 10:56 PM
dyno results with Spearco TMIC OneArmedScissor Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 5 06-16-2004 12:32 AM
AWD Dyno results with Brullen header-back system...(long) p-car Normally Aspirated Powertrain 44 01-11-2002 11:48 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.