Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday November 18, 2018
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > FA Series Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-13-2016, 11:59 AM   #51
boostingwrx12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 428984
Join Date: Aug 2015
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2016 Wrx CornFed
JR Tuned @ Prime Motoring

Default

so if your battery is good then this mod is useless?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
boostingwrx12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-13-2016, 01:08 PM   #52
scooby4u
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 324722
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Red Stick, LA
Vehicle:
2004 Impreza WRX
Silver

Default

This mod will allow your alternator to charge more consistently thus preventing premature battery failure. Along with other benefits.
scooby4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2016, 02:15 PM   #53
boostingwrx12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 428984
Join Date: Aug 2015
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2016 Wrx CornFed
JR Tuned @ Prime Motoring

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby4u View Post
This mod will allow your alternator to charge more consistently thus preventing premature battery failure. Along with other benefits.
good to know
boostingwrx12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2016, 07:08 PM   #54
Skyteg970
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 453845
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default

I think I'll try a new battery. I drove like 15 miles with my lights off. Stopped to get gas and battery was dead. Had to push start car. Then drove over an hour with my lights on and the battery is fine.
Skyteg970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2016, 12:06 AM   #55
2015WRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 389290
Join Date: Apr 2014
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lake in the hills, IL
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Black

Default

Bottom line here is if the car alternator system isn't keeping the battery fully charged your electronics in one way or another will be affected. This issue makes sense for cars that are having constant resetting of the triple meters during the cold months of the year.
2015WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2016, 11:36 AM   #56
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: WV
Vehicle:
2017 FXT-T ES
SBM/SBL

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby4u View Post
This mod will allow your alternator to charge more consistently thus preventing premature battery failure. Along with other benefits.
"This mod" only masks the underlying issue... a bad, undercharged, or poorly conditioned battery. It does this by forcing the alternator to provide alternator voltage/current when the vehicle would otherwise be using the battery... that is, cycling between charging and discharging in a careful dance, a cycle that is necessary to maintain the battery's health as well as satisfying the running vehicle's needs.

This link http://marine-electronics.net/techar...aq/b_faq.htm#5 explains this, and much more. A complete and thoughtful read will help those who never knew and refresh known information for others.

In the end the simple truth is that our batteries last longer and work best if maintained by a microprocessor-controlled charging system. Taking the ECU's control away eliminates that complex process, substituting a crude brute-force, single-minded replacement which is insensitive to the needs of the battery.
SeeeeeYa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2016, 10:40 PM   #57
nightdown fox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 309636
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
2015 STI LE
WRB on Gold!

Default

You may have inadvertently solved an issue many of us have been having with the triple gauge and other screens on the MFD resetting in the colder months. Been trying to figure this out since the 2015s dropped. Couple of threads out there on multiple forums, but here is the main one on this board: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2621710

Pages of peeps replacing the battery but having the problem return, and we were speculating on it being some type of voltage issue coinciding with cold cranking. This may be the answer...

My question is -- has anyone gotten this to work on a STI?
nightdown fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 12:58 AM   #58
scooby4u
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 324722
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Red Stick, LA
Vehicle:
2004 Impreza WRX
Silver

Default

The Sti does not share the same alternator nor does its ecm have such control over its functions. This mod does not put the alternator in full charginging. It allows its built in internal logic to charge as any other regular alternator has done so before these. Some may want you to believe it's just a battery issue, but this is a new problem only related to direct injection cars. I've seen these exact same issues on multiple other DIG vehicles.
scooby4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 08:41 PM   #59
nightdown fox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 309636
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
2015 STI LE
WRB on Gold!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby4u View Post
The Sti does not share the same alternator nor does its ecm have such control over its functions. This mod does not put the alternator in full charginging. It allows its built in internal logic to charge as any other regular alternator has done so before these. Some may want you to believe it's just a battery issue, but this is a new problem only related to direct injection cars. I've seen these exact same issues on multiple other DIG vehicles.
Hmm, interesting... the search continues then for us STI peeps that have the resetting issue then. Although it seems that this mod is helping the WRX owners who are also experiencing the reset glitch.
nightdown fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016, 10:00 PM   #60
rexster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 22863
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: The Land of Mary
Vehicle:
2015 WRX Premium CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
"This mod" only masks the underlying issue... a bad, undercharged, or poorly conditioned battery. It does this by forcing the alternator to provide alternator voltage/current when the vehicle would otherwise be using the battery... that is, cycling between charging and discharging in a careful dance, a cycle that is necessary to maintain the battery's health as well as satisfying the running vehicle's needs.

This link http://marine-electronics.net/techar...aq/b_faq.htm#5 explains this, and much more. A complete and thoughtful read will help those who never knew and refresh known information for others.

In the end the simple truth is that our batteries last longer and work best if maintained by a microprocessor-controlled charging system. Taking the ECU's control away eliminates that complex process, substituting a crude brute-force, single-minded replacement which is insensitive to the needs of the battery.
You might be right if you have a completely stock car and live in a warm climate. My amplifier draws up to 90 amps (good old fashioned class AB) and as far as I can tell the ECU doesn't detect when it's on. But as soon as I turn on my halogen headlights the alternator turns on. Even though my amp draws at least as much as the headlights (and can draw much more), the alternator doesn't turn on (continually) until the float voltage gets low. If your car is stock you may never need this, but if you have amplifiers it means you no longer have to turn on lights to get the alternator to turn on to prevent the voltage from getting too low when taking short trips...
rexster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 11:55 AM   #61
samagon
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:
of TXIC
I also like (oYo)!!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
"This mod" only masks the underlying issue... a bad, undercharged, or poorly conditioned battery. It does this by forcing the alternator to provide alternator voltage/current when the vehicle would otherwise be using the battery... that is, cycling between charging and discharging in a careful dance, a cycle that is necessary to maintain the battery's health as well as satisfying the running vehicle's needs.

This link http://marine-electronics.net/techar...aq/b_faq.htm#5 explains this, and much more. A complete and thoughtful read will help those who never knew and refresh known information for others.

In the end the simple truth is that our batteries last longer and work best if maintained by a microprocessor-controlled charging system. Taking the ECU's control away eliminates that complex process, substituting a crude brute-force, single-minded replacement which is insensitive to the needs of the battery.
So, what if the charging method that Subaru (and other manufacturers) chooses to employ in an effort to increase efficiency is causing batteries to die quicker?

I bought my '15 in June of '14. In May of '16 I had to replace the battery.

Bad battery? No doubt. The car wouldn't start. That's the definition of a bad battery.

Ask yourself. Why was the battery bad? What caused it to go flat in under 2 years where every new car I've ever owned previous to this one the factory battery lasted easily over 4 years? Why are there as many reports of what you describe as being the definition of a bad battery?

There is a root cause of my bad battery. There is a root cause of every other person who has a piece of **** battery in their car too.

Maybe it was a faulty battery shipped to Subaru. Maybe Subaru decided to save $0.50 per car by changing their battery supply methods and received poorly manufactured batteries. Maybe it's this ****ty charging cycle.

Before reading this thread, I believed that it was just a bad battery from the factory. However, after reading, and based on the tests and results posted in this thread, I am very much believing that the root cause of ****ty batteries is the way that the ECU is hijacking the charging system.

You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, whatever, it's your car, replace your battery every one and a half years if you want. Me, I'm probably going to employ this simple fix this weekend.

Sure I'll get .00004% worse mileage, but I'll also be reverting to a charging method that's been in use since car manufacturers changed from generators to alternators and employed solid state circuitry to govern the charge sent to the battery from the alternator (nearly 50 years now). This method has worked damn well at not letting the battery get too flat during a running cycle that the engine and car itself doesn't work correctly.

Translation: I'd rather wake up one morning and not be able to start my car and know that the battery is bad and needs to be replaced
...than...
to ever so slowly not notice that my car is acting more and more strange because the optimal voltage is not being maintained by a slowly worsening battery that due to laziness, or apathy, or whatever I never choose to check so I don't know that the battery is going bad and I should change it.

It's too bad the triple meter doesn't allow a user to show battery voltage.
samagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 12:23 PM   #62
rromano922
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 430590
Join Date: Sep 2015
Default

I read this and I do not want to do that mod on the battery not trying to **** with wires but I replace my battery with a higher cranking amps battery I think it is the low cranking amps that the oem battery has. Just so everyone knows small tractor battery's and some lawn mower battery's have more cranking amps then this car does just take that into consideration.
rromano922 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 06:04 PM   #63
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: WV
Vehicle:
2017 FXT-T ES
SBM/SBL

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samagon View Post
So, what if the charging method that Subaru (and other manufacturers) chooses to employ in an effort to increase efficiency is causing batteries to die quicker?

I bought my '15 in June of '14. In May of '16 I had to replace the battery.

Bad battery? No doubt. The car wouldn't start. That's the definition of a bad battery.

Ask yourself. Why was the battery bad? What caused it to go flat in under 2 years where every new car I've ever owned previous to this one the factory battery lasted easily over 4 years? Why are there as many reports of what you describe as being the definition of a bad battery?

There is a root cause of my bad battery. There is a root cause of every other person who has a piece of **** battery in their car too.

Maybe it was a faulty battery shipped to Subaru. Maybe Subaru decided to save $0.50 per car by changing their battery supply methods and received poorly manufactured batteries. Maybe it's this ****ty charging cycle.

Before reading this thread, I believed that it was just a bad battery from the factory. However, after reading, and based on the tests and results posted in this thread, I am very much believing that the root cause of ****ty batteries is the way that the ECU is hijacking the charging system.

You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, whatever, it's your car, replace your battery every one and a half years if you want. Me, I'm probably going to employ this simple fix this weekend.

Sure I'll get .00004% worse mileage, but I'll also be reverting to a charging method that's been in use since car manufacturers changed from generators to alternators and employed solid state circuitry to govern the charge sent to the battery from the alternator (nearly 50 years now). This method has worked damn well at not letting the battery get too flat during a running cycle that the engine and car itself doesn't work correctly.

Translation: I'd rather wake up one morning and not be able to start my car and know that the battery is bad and needs to be replaced
...than...
to ever so slowly not notice that my car is acting more and more strange because the optimal voltage is not being maintained by a slowly worsening battery that due to laziness, or apathy, or whatever I never choose to check so I don't know that the battery is going bad and I should change it.

It's too bad the triple meter doesn't allow a user to show battery voltage.
Like you said... your car, do as you wish.

Me, I like the advancement of technology... especially when, like this case, common technology in standalone battery chargers is migrated to the automobile.

As for how long batteries last... and we are talking Subarus here... I've had to replace batteries in multiple ones earlier than 4 years, BEFORE the new charging system. These are OK batteries, but no so great either. Leave a trunk light on, leave a map light on... overnight... and it has killed MY batteries.

But like I said, after a thorough professional recharge cycle it was fine... actually better than it was new. This leads me to believe a possibility exists that some batteries are under-prepared and under-charged when delivered. Add some excess tax on it and it isn't up to the job. From experience, I suggest taking the time to take the battery to a professional charging facility (I used Autozone, free) and get it tested and properly charged. THEN make decisions about the viability of your battery. Mucking with the car's electronics as a first "fix" is nuts.

How do I know? I monitor my system voltage. My RD display is set to voltage and it is always in front of me so I know charging voltage and car-off voltage, and all the variations in between. It is clear from that data that the charging voltage isn't doing what is purported here. It is doing what I expect. One way or another I've always monitored my vehicles' voltage... even motorcycles. There are tiny modules that are easy to integrate that work great. It's my opinion some people don't know either how their alternator/battery system works or its day-to-day functioning. That leads to "trying" things... like this "mod."

A bigger/better battery is called for in some cases, and is never a bad choice in any case. But to believe a PROPERLY functioning OEM battery/charging system is going to cause problems is, sorry, silly. Same conversation as that one in failed motor thread.

To hedge my bets I have replaced those pesky, current draining, incandescent lamps and installed LEDs. Leaving one of those on has not killed my battery.
SeeeeeYa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 09:04 PM   #64
-Raven-
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 416044
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: D Town
Vehicle:
2015 Subaru WRX 6MT
K1X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
But like I said, after a thorough professional recharge cycle it was fine... actually better than it was new. This leads me to believe a possibility exists that some batteries are under-prepared and under-charged when delivered. Add some excess tax on it and it isn't up to the job. From experience, I suggest taking the time to take the battery to a professional charging facility (I used Autozone, free) and get it tested and properly charged. THEN make decisions about the viability of your battery. Mucking with the car's electronics as a first "fix" is nuts.
As I've previously posted, I've gone from my battery liking a charge every week or so before the mod, to not needing a charge now. The mod for me 100% works.
-Raven- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 10:41 PM   #65
playslikepage71
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395882
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: GR, Michigan
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
DGM

Default

Replace all of your bulbs with LEDs and the lifetime is such that you can just leave your lights on all of the time. The key is a dead-switch for the lights in Subarus so you can't really leave your lights on when you park unless you turn them off and back on again. There's your battery charging mod. Plus its not a bad idea to drive with your lights on all of the time for visibility. Anything to help the idiots out there.
playslikepage71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2016, 05:23 PM   #66
SilverDollar
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 420819
Join Date: May 2015
Default

Just did this now, instantly smoother idle. Doesn't feel like a 20 year old 4 banger idling now, always perturbed me how other 4 cyl ran soo much smoother than my subie...problem fixed.

Oh and would explain why my amps would shut off for a few seconds once in a while like the battery was low--WHILE DRIVING DOWN THE HIGHWAY. Thanks to the OP. Now will keep an eye on fuel milage but will not be going back I'm sure.

Nissan Frontier's do this also but not as ridiculous of a level, but any one with a stereo usually did this mod.
SilverDollar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2016, 10:19 PM   #67
_brian_
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 337626
Join Date: Nov 2012
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Dallas, Texas
Vehicle:
2015 WRX
Crystal White Pearl

Default

are there any downsides to this? I'm thinking about doing it this weekend.
_brian_ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2016, 04:21 PM   #68
boostingwrx12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 428984
Join Date: Aug 2015
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2016 Wrx CornFed
JR Tuned @ Prime Motoring

Default

last week my AP gauges resetted 3-4 times the car started fine and i also checked the battery voltage and everything was good.
after doing this mod it doesn't seem to do it anymore. i've also noticed that the car idles more steady / smoother. battery voltage seems to be more stable.
i'll give this mod a try for a few months or so. hopefully this won't affect or ruin the alternator or any electrical system in the car lol.

Last edited by boostingwrx12; 11-01-2016 at 08:47 PM.
boostingwrx12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 10:24 AM   #69
Skyteg970
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 453845
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default

My car would drop to 11v driving around with nothing on. As soon as I turn my headlights on back up to 13-14. I rode it out keeping the lights on. Drops to 20 degrees outside yesterday and my car did not want to start. So instead of doing this weird "fix" I decided to replace the battery. Car starts better than it has all year. And now my voltage does not drop under 13. Lights on/off doesn't matter what load it has on it. Today is the first day so I can report back later. But replacing the battery has seemed to fix my problems. Best of luck to you all. If my problems return I will repost as soon as it happens
Skyteg970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 10:46 AM   #70
strudinox
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 351889
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Longmont, CO
Vehicle:
2015 WRX Premium
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyteg970 View Post
My car would drop to 11v driving around with nothing on. As soon as I turn my headlights on back up to 13-14. I rode it out keeping the lights on. Drops to 20 degrees outside yesterday and my car did not want to start. So instead of doing this weird "fix" I decided to replace the battery. Car starts better than it has all year. And now my voltage does not drop under 13. Lights on/off doesn't matter what load it has on it. Today is the first day so I can report back later. But replacing the battery has seemed to fix my problems. Best of luck to you all. If my problems return I will repost as soon as it happens
I agree, and very similar story here. I think a lot of these voltage related issues could be fixed by replacing the stock battery. My stockie lasted only 18months after I bought the car before it died. I went with a Duracell with literally double the CCA rating over the stock unit. Starting doesn't feel like a burden anymore, and my voltage also never drops below 13v, even with lights everything on.
strudinox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 11:32 AM   #71
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: WV
Vehicle:
2017 FXT-T ES
SBM/SBL

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Like you said... your car, do as you wish.

Me, I like the advancement of technology... especially when, like this case, common technology in standalone battery chargers is migrated to the automobile.

As for how long batteries last... and we are talking Subarus here... I've had to replace batteries in multiple ones earlier than 4 years, BEFORE the new charging system. These are OK batteries, but no so great either. Leave a trunk light on, leave a map light on... overnight... and it has killed MY batteries.

But like I said, after a thorough professional recharge cycle it was fine... actually better than it was new. This leads me to believe a possibility exists that some batteries are under-prepared and under-charged when delivered. Add some excess tax on it and it isn't up to the job. From experience, I suggest taking the time to take the battery to a professional charging facility (I used Autozone, free) and get it tested and properly charged. THEN make decisions about the viability of your battery. Mucking with the car's electronics as a first "fix" is nuts.

How do I know? I monitor my system voltage. My RD display is set to voltage and it is always in front of me so I know charging voltage and car-off voltage, and all the variations in between. It is clear from that data that the charging voltage isn't doing what is purported here. It is doing what I expect. One way or another I've always monitored my vehicles' voltage... even motorcycles. There are tiny modules that are easy to integrate that work great. It's my opinion some people don't know either how their alternator/battery system works or its day-to-day functioning. That leads to "trying" things... like this "mod."

A bigger/better battery is called for in some cases, and is never a bad choice in any case. But to believe a PROPERLY functioning OEM battery/charging system is going to cause problems is, sorry, silly. Same conversation as that one in failed motor thread.

To hedge my bets I have replaced those pesky, current draining, incandescent lamps and installed LEDs. Leaving one of those on has not killed my battery.
Quote:
Skyteg970
My car would drop to 11v driving around with nothing on. As soon as I turn my headlights on back up to 13-14. I rode it out keeping the lights on. Drops to 20 degrees outside yesterday and my car did not want to start. So instead of doing this weird "fix" I decided to replace the battery. Car starts better than it has all year. And now my voltage does not drop under 13. Lights on/off doesn't matter what load it has on it. Today is the first day so I can report back later. But replacing the battery has seemed to fix my problems. Best of luck to you all. If my problems return I will repost as soon as it happens
Quote:
Originally Posted by strudinox View Post
I agree, and very similar story here. I think a lot of these voltage related issues could be fixed by replacing the stock battery. My stockie lasted only 18months after I bought the car before it died. I went with a Duracell with literally double the CCA rating over the stock unit. Starting doesn't feel like a burden anymore, and my voltage also never drops below 13v, even with lights everything on.
^^^^^^

SeeeeeYa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 09:17 PM   #72
Skyteg970
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 453845
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default

Here is my update. No issues at all. Battery starts car without any troubles at all. Ive been waking up to 19 degree f temps and car starts right up. I can now drive during the day with my headlights off. I just got a good old Napa battery with a 2 year free replacement warranty
Skyteg970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2016, 10:02 PM   #73
jobber
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 164043
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Vehicle:
2015 WRX and FozzyXT
White

Default

guess i never posted my video here. i think i got the video from the OP in this thread.


opps, this isn't "my" video..

Last edited by jobber; 06-15-2017 at 01:20 PM.
jobber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 04:10 PM   #74
razasharp
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 446164
Join Date: May 2016
Default

I've had this mod for 3 months now and no issues..
razasharp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 06:20 PM   #75
boostingwrx12
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 428984
Join Date: Aug 2015
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NYC
Vehicle:
2016 Wrx CornFed
JR Tuned @ Prime Motoring

Default

same here. this mod works fine & no issues so far
boostingwrx12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.