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Old 03-13-2017, 05:37 PM   #51
mishapopa
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Anyone have a log of MAP Stage 2 OTS? I'm just curious to what that looks like.
http://www.datazap.me/u/mishapopa/lo...g=0&data=16-18
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:24 PM   #52
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Can someone who is more knowledgeable about log reading answer a few questions?

1)Calculated Load - Is there a correlation between this and whp and wtq? Or is it how hard the engine is working, but not necessarily how much power it's putting out. I've noticed that OTS maps seem to get to much higher calculated loads over E tunes or Pro Tunes. Have I just maybe been seeing outlier logs or what am I misunderstanding?

2)There were two very brief instances of FBKL. They occurred at loads of about 2.5, is that concerning given they were only about 2/10s of a second each time? I wouldn't think so but I wasn't sure.

3)The boost control showed an initial spike that reached 3.5lbs over target on the first hit and spiked 2lbs over on the second. Is this just bad boost control?
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Old 03-13-2017, 07:46 PM   #53
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What gas was that log, I assume 91 with the timing...
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:41 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Can someone who is more knowledgeable about log reading answer a few questions?

1)Calculated Load - Is there a correlation between this and whp and wtq? Or is it how hard the engine is working, but not necessarily how much power it's putting out. I've noticed that OTS maps seem to get to much higher calculated loads over E tunes or Pro Tunes. Have I just maybe been seeing outlier logs or what am I misunderstanding?

thpically I would use g/s airflow to estimate power over calc load. If they're off in OTS maps high loads probably has to do with the maf cals

2)There were two very brief instances of FBKL. They occurred at loads of about 2.5, is that concerning given they were only about 2/10s of a second each time? I wouldn't think so but I wasn't sure.

yes FKL if 2.81 that is repeatable, op has what looks like leaner running and a tiny bit of boost creep, the combination of which likely lead to the timing reduction
3)The boost control showed an initial spike that reached 3.5lbs over target on the first hit and spiked 2lbs over on the second. Is this just bad boost control?
this was during a shift. A change in load, quick transient response, and stock ebcs are likely the reason
12345
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:55 PM   #55
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Much obliged J!
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:07 PM   #56
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What gas was that log, I assume 91 with the timing...
91 octane and it is winter gas.

when i took this log, i hadn't been to the RPM at WOT where i saw the FKL, not entirely sure if this is something that adjusts over time or needs to be looked at. i don't recall feeling any timing being pulled during those pulls the car has been running great.

i will take more logs during summer.
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Old 03-14-2017, 12:17 AM   #57
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You weren't actually WOT for that log! Come on now, that's no bueno. Dunno why you had that learned knock. Didn't have any feedback so at least there's that and it should go away if it stays clean.

If you do another try adding command fueling and boost target like simplej suggested.
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:13 AM   #58
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91 octane and it is winter gas.

when i took this log, i hadn't been to the RPM at WOT where i saw the FKL, not entirely sure if this is something that adjusts over time or needs to be looked at. i don't recall feeling any timing being pulled during those pulls the car has been running great.

i will take more logs during summer.
Why wait until it's warm? That's what comp tables are for.

FKL is bad. Basically it means that the ecu has seen knock in a certain rev and load range repeatedly so it is protecting itself in a predictive way.

-2.81 is not bad- anything over that is cause for concern. However, if you're getting a -2.81 FKL consistently that could be indicative of a problem
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:17 AM   #59
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You weren't actually WOT for that log! Come on now, that's no bueno.
He was actually WOT. Pedal position correlates to a requested torque table. In simplest terms: If that requested torque exceeds what the engine can make- it will peg the throttle at the max open position in an attempt to reach the requested torque.

His throttle position is 80% but the throttle plate is actually 100% open. That's a wot log
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:24 AM   #60
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You weren't actually WOT for that log! Come on now, that's no bueno. Dunno why you had that learned knock. Didn't have any feedback so at least there's that and it should go away if it stays clean.

If you do another try adding command fueling and boost target like simplej suggested.
accel % yeah, didn't really mash the gas pedal all the way down but the throttle % appears to be 100%. i'd be very surprised if the car had more power with the added 20% accel % as it felt quite fast.

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Why wait until it's warm? That's what comp tables are for.

FKL is bad. Basically it means that the ecu has seen knock in a certain rev and load range repeatedly so it is protecting itself in a predictive way.

-2.81 is not bad- anything over that is cause for concern. However, if you're getting a -2.81 FKL consistently that could be indicative of a problem
road conditions and i'm on my winter tires. i'm not even planning to hook up the AP until mid-april or early may. i drive the car daily, and WOT here and there, just not logging it.

if i have FKL but no actual feedback knock, is it still a concern though? i've only been to that RPM range 2-3 times since going stage 2 (i installed it in november) so maybe i just haven't given it enough trials to "learn". ideally i'd like it to stay at 0 though.

also maybe important? this whole log was to test air leaks after installing an intercooler and charge pipe. needless to say i didn't tune for these parts, not yet at least. i took note on the FKL but plenty of people posting WOT logs on OTS maps have FKL on these motors.

thanks for taking a look btw, appreciate it.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:30 AM   #61
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He was actually WOT. Pedal position correlates to a requested torque table. In simplest terms: If that requested torque exceeds what the engine can make- it will peg the throttle at the max open position in an attempt to reach the requested torque.

His throttle position is 80% but the throttle plate is actually 100% open. That's a wot log

Did it correlate to full requested torque? As I mentioned in a different thread the pedal controls more than just the throttle plate, this isn't a small block chevy after all. There are other parameters it controls, timing, AVCS, boost control.

I know my tuner often uses the last portion just for boost control. Its hard to know for sure what his did.
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:25 PM   #62
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Does the FA20 clean up timing/knock wise if you add 1/4 tank max of E85?

Just thinking of the 91 octane folks, hippy gas is hippy gas.
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:34 PM   #63
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Does the FA20 clean up timing/knock wise if you add 1/4 tank max of E85?

Just thinking of the 91 octane folks, hippy gas is hippy gas.
That's a question only your tuner can answer.

As for a stock engine calibration, I wouldn't recommend it. Trading a proper AFR for a little extra octane doesn't exactly strike me as a good compromise.

Now if you were to get a flex fuel map.... then it's game on.
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:28 PM   #64
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accel % yeah, didn't really mash the gas pedal all the way down but the throttle % appears to be 100%. i'd be very surprised if the car had more power with the added 20% accel % as it felt quite fast.



road conditions and i'm on my winter tires. i'm not even planning to hook up the AP until mid-april or early may. i drive the car daily, and WOT here and there, just not logging it.

if i have FKL but no actual feedback knock, is it still a concern though? i've only been to that RPM range 2-3 times since going stage 2 (i installed it in november) so maybe i just haven't given it enough trials to "learn". ideally i'd like it to stay at 0 though.

also maybe important? this whole log was to test air leaks after installing an intercooler and charge pipe. needless to say i didn't tune for these parts, not yet at least. i took note on the FKL but plenty of people posting WOT logs on OTS maps have FKL on these motors.

thanks for taking a look btw, appreciate it.

2 or 3 times since November? Christ I hit that in third merging on my way to work every damn day.

You don't need to tune for those parts per se.

Yes you willl see some FKl, if you don't that is a problem, even on a protune.

Think of it like this FBK is knock your engine heard. FKL is knock your engine predicted based on conditions where it heard knock previously, and will keep FKL for as long as those conditions are experienced and there is a knock, if no knock it will learn it away in increments of .35. DAM drop is your ecu getting repeated FKL and FBK and it says okay I'm just going to turn down the entire timing table across the board until i get it under control.

If you get this every time you go WOT its probably not good. Once in a while totally fine. above -4.22 and thats not good either.

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Originally Posted by uofime View Post
Did it correlate to full requested torque? As I mentioned in a different thread the pedal controls more than just the throttle plate, this isn't a small block chevy after all. There are other parameters it controls, timing, AVCS, boost control.

I know my tuner often uses the last portion just for boost control. Its hard to know for sure what his did.
Please see the table below, unless ATP is different (or I missed something), there is no correlation between pedal position and the variables you listed. Pedal position controls requested torque and requested torque alone. The other variables mentioned adjust based on calculated load, percent requested torque, and/or requested torque.




Quote:
Originally Posted by gn4rwhals View Post
Does the FA20 clean up timing/knock wise if you add 1/4 tank max of E85?

Just thinking of the 91 octane folks, hippy gas is hippy gas.
Yes, a few gallons, 1 or 2 max will clean things up even on the stock tune. No mods or flex fuel needed for these concentrations to boost octane.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:06 PM   #65
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http://datazap.me/u/glarryhooddit/st...og=0&data=7-20

Was doing some logging to check out the GS TMIC efficiency (holy **** btw), figured I might as well post it here too.
2nd-3rd gear pull. 91 Octane, 5500' Elevation
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:30 PM   #66
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Yes, a few gallons, 1 or 2 max will clean things up even on the stock tune. No mods or flex fuel needed for these concentrations to boost octane.
Thought so, thanks for answering my question!
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:00 AM   #67
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Was doing some logging to check out the GS TMIC efficiency (holy **** btw), figured I might as well post it here too.
2nd-3rd gear pull. 91 Octane, 5500' Elevation
Hell yea that is one awesome looking log. I see he's running you in full time CL as well. Sweet deal
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:03 PM   #68
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What is the advantage of keeping it in closed loop?
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:25 PM   #69
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Also whos the tuner on that Grimmspeed IC log? Looks fairly aggressive but clean.
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:32 PM   #70
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Hell yea that is one awesome looking log. I see he's running you in full time CL as well. Sweet deal
The car feels incredible! I really like that it's full time CL, I was pretty surprised when I saw AF Correction at WOT on my first log - but I've realized it has some great benefits!

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Originally Posted by Schoat333
What is the advantage of keeping it in closed loop?
Better gas mileage, AFR always hits its target. Most tuners can't/don't know how to effectively tune this way.

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Originally Posted by gn4rwhals
Also whos the tuner on that Grimmspeed IC log? Looks fairly aggressive but clean.
PhatBotti/PhatRon tuned.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, personally. AFR in the 10s to mid 10s at higher rpm is pretty conservative, the timing scheme is a bit off because I didn't WOT until past 3000rpms.

This log is an example of a fairly aggressive tune/timing scheme. AFR is conservative (not as much as the E Tune) but that's about it. This was the only log I could take on that tune without knock. Almost double the timing throughout the log. This tune has lower boost, which was probably the only thing keeping it from exploding, a lot of the power was made through timing which is dangerous on these engines.
http://datazap.me/u/glarryhooddit/3r...-pull-pro-tune
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:33 PM   #71
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PhatBotti/PhatRon tuned.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, personally. AFR in the 10s to mid 10s at higher rpm is pretty conservative, the timing scheme is a bit off because I didn't WOT until past 3000rpms.

This log is an example of a fairly aggressive tune/timing scheme. AFR is conservative (not as much as the E Tune) but that's about it. This was the only log I could take on that tune without knock. Almost double the timing throughout the log. This tune has lower boost, which was probably the only thing keeping it from exploding, a lot of the power was made through timing which is dangerous on these engines.
http://datazap.me/u/glarryhooddit/3r...-pull-pro-tune
Ok that last log is straight up scary, seems like a good way to toss a rod.

Thanks for sharing the PhatRon log it is super clean, I guess I'm just unfamiliar with the timing maps on these engines.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:19 AM   #72
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Please see the table below, unless ATP is different (or I missed something), there is no correlation between pedal position and the variables you listed. Pedal position controls requested torque and requested torque alone. The other variables mentioned adjust based on calculated load, percent requested torque, and/or requested torque.

You are correct, but requested torque can be used to control the other variables.

you're right, ignition is just load/rpm shouldn't have said that one

Interestingly requested torque values aren't restricted to the max listed in that table either.

Requested torque can call for max throttle plate position but not max boost
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:35 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
The car feels incredible! I really like that it's full time CL, I was pretty surprised when I saw AF Correction at WOT on my first log - but I've realized it has some great benefits!


Better gas mileage, AFR always hits its target. Most tuners can't/don't know how to effectively tune this way.
Closed Loop tuning FA WRX - YouTube


PhatBotti/PhatRon tuned.
I'm full time closed loop as well. Couldn't be happier. I remember doing my first logs and saw A/F correction and was like... Umm... What...
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:13 PM   #74
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here is my final etune on 91 from Ron aka phatbotti. this is it before he finishes it up on the dyno next friday and then he will tune me for Flex Fuel. can't wait!

http://datazap.me/u/gsechen/log-1489...og=0&data=9-24
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Old 03-16-2017, 04:08 PM   #75
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goto my build thread if you want to see the mods: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2802811

3rd gear...26-27 psi according to my non-Cobb AP boost gauges.

http://datazap.me/u/ustemuf/e70-efr7064

my car blew a head gasket or more just recently though. went to tune for flex fuel. my very first tank of 91 octane, one third gear pull with only 16psi and my engine went a couple minutes later.
still need to tear down to truly diagnose.

the log was perfectly normal looking as far as i can tell.... musta just been fatigue. 22k on the built motor.
here is the 91 octane 3rd gear pull...
http://datazap.me/u/ustemuf/91-blew-me

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