2022 Subaru WRX Official Announcement *Merged*

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

There have been 2 "Hybrids" in the US, the Crosstrek Strong Hybrid (2 eMotors) and the Crosstrek PHEV (Plug-in w/ 2 eMotors). The MY25 Forester is an unknown.

ROW had/has the eBoxer, a Mild Hybrid (1 eMotor).

A lot of the inefficiency comes from a small battery, and placing eMotor 2 (MG2) at the transmission (not on 1 axle like Toyota). So, the car is always AWD, not 2WD for efficiency.

I am not calling for a 2WD Subaru, but that is why it is inefficient comparatively.

Either way, all CVT Subarus need a hybrid system to increase MPG and to help with CAFE, so we can have a STI or at least, better WRX.

Subaru needs to get with the times and drop the awd all the time system. It's unnecessary and kills gas mileage. They could do that instead of adding stupidly complex hybrid systems.

I get better gas mileage out of my v6 Toyota Highlander than I did out of my 4cyl outback. And better traction as well. I used to spin the front wheels in the outback all the time (hard accel from a stop while turning), never happens in the highlander.

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[dgoodhue]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Subaru needs to get with the times and drop the awd all the time system. It's unnecessary and kills gas mileage. They could do that instead of adding stupidly complex hybrid systems.

I get better gas mileage out of my v6 Toyota Highlander than I did out of my 4cyl outback. And better traction as well. I used to spin the front wheels in the outback all the time (hard accel from a stop while turning), never happens in the highlander.

Maybe it was the just years my vehicles. I can’t get my 2009 2.5i Outback to spin if I wanted unless it is icy or it snows out. my ex-wife had an awd 2002 v6 Highlander. The AWD absolutely sucked. I bought it back to the dealer in the 1st winter because I thought the AWD was broken. It would spin the front wheel on hard right in the dry if you floored it. In the snow if felt like fwd for the 1st couple seconds.

I always thought the AWD wasn’t right until I saw YouTube videos year later.

Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

[SVX WRX]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Subaru needs to get with the times and drop the awd all the time system. It's unnecessary and kills gas mileage. They could do that instead of adding stupidly complex hybrid systems.

our Mitsu Outlander Sport is FWD 99% of the time ... there is an AWD button to select "AWD Auto" or "AWD Lock".

in almost 9 years in Western PA i've used AWD Auto a handful of times, and never needed to use AWD Lock.

[Straight6]

Please don't ruin Subaru AWD systems with some FWD system that feels like an afterthought. No thanks.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Subaru needs to get with the times and drop the awd all the time system. It's unnecessary and kills gas mileage. They could do that instead of adding stupidly complex hybrid systems.

I get better gas mileage out of my v6 Toyota Highlander than I did out of my 4cyl outback. And better traction as well. I used to spin the front wheels in the outback all the time (hard accel from a stop while turning), never happens in the highlander.

I have no interest in a part time Subaru. Even the Solterra is full time permanent magnet on both motors (to it's efficiency detriment). Switching to a RWD bias (permanent rear motor, like Volvo did, to match Tesla, etc) would be more efficient and fun, but also less stable in snow. Tesla Bjorn (Norway) was always uneasy about Tesla driving on hard packed snow covered roads, as compared to Audi and Volvo (they were permanent dual motor). So, if a consumer isn't used to, or expecting some wiggle, they may not like sleeping the front motor.

I don't think I've ever gotten an Active AWD Subaru to spin the front tires. But to be fair they have all had an eMotor at take-off.

I did always like being able to spin the fronts of my RSX. High School was fun. In my race against time, I...

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by Straight6

Please don't ruin Subaru AWD systems with some FWD system that feels like an afterthought. No thanks.

Subaru already ruined itself with a WRX transaxle that they don't feel comfortable pushing past 258 ft.lbs. So, IMO, Subaru didn't put much thoughts into any of this (now that the STI transaxle is gone).

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by dgoodhue

Maybe it was the just years my vehicles. I can't get my 2009 2.5i Outback to spin if I wanted unless it is icy or it snows out. my ex-wife had an awd 2002 v6 Highlander. The AWD absolutely sucked. I bought it back to the dealer in the 1st winter because I thought the AWD was broken. It would spin the front wheel on hard right in the dry if you floored it. In the snow if felt like fwd for the 1st couple seconds.

I always thought the AWD wasn't right until I saw YouTube videos year later.

Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC

Maybe just a difference in years? My outback was a 2014. Hard turn in the dry in the outback would spin the inside front wheel and consequently the traction control systems would pull power, so you felt like a dick if you ever tried to pull out onto a busy street. Absolutely hated it.

My Highlander is a 2018 and has proven to be a complete champ. I absolutely love having the awd lock button for low speed snow maneuvering. So much more powerful, better gas mileage, bigger, no CVT, etc... it's just all around a significantly better vehicle.

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I have no interest in a part time Subaru. Even the Solterra is full time permanent magnet on both motors (to it's efficiency detriment). Switching to a RWD bias (permanent rear motor, like Volvo did, to match Tesla, etc) would be more efficient and fun, but also less stable in snow. Tesla Bjorn (Norway) was always uneasy about Tesla driving on hard packed snow covered roads, as compared to Audi and Volvo (they were permanent dual motor). So, if a consumer isn't used to, or expecting some wiggle, they may not like sleeping the front motor.

I don't think I've ever gotten an Active AWD Subaru to spin the front tires. But to be fair they have all had an eMotor at take-off.

I did always like being able to spin the fronts of my RSX. High School was fun. In my race against time, I...

That's fine, you do you. I don't care what some dude from Norway has to say. I know what I personally like to drive, and my Golf R and Highlander have proven to be just as good if not better in snow than the two subarus I've owned. My highlander has a display where you can see the power distribution. Under any sort of acceleration power is going to the rear wheels. It's only when you're just cruising, not accelerating, that it drops to fwd only. Same with the Golf R, although I had to log to get that data, no screen to display.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by dwf137

That's fine, you do you. I don't care what some dude from Norway has to say. I know what I personally like to drive, and my Golf R and Highlander have proven to be just as good if not better in snow than the two subarus I've owned. My highlander has a display where you can see the power distribution. Under any sort of acceleration power is going to the rear wheels. It's only when you're just cruising, not accelerating, that it drops to fwd only. Same with the Golf R, although I had to log to get that data, no screen to display.

I hear you. Mk8 Golf R has an on-screen display as well. So does my Giulia and Solterra. Solterra is 70:30 up to 40:60, but I don't think I've ever seen the display show less than 50:50 (the level of bars changes, but they are always equal. If it ever snows I'll see if that changes).

My Tesla Model Y is 0:100 and my Giulia is 0:100, so I can see benefits to part time systems.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I hear you. Mk8 Golf R has an on-screen display as well. So does my Giulia and Solterra. Solterra is 70:30 up to 40:60, but I don't think I've ever seen the display show less than 50:50 (the level of bars changes, but they are always equal. If it ever snows I'll see if that changes).

My Tesla Model Y is 0:100 and my Giulia is 0:100, so I can see benefits to part time systems.

My leaf is 100:0 and my BMW is 0:100... Then the highlander splitting the difference.

I was completely against the part time systems for a long time. They got a bad rap for the initial design... like the original Golf R32 which had a system that was FWD until there was actual detected slip, that was crappy and really gave a bad name to the part time systems. But now that everything is so electronic, as long as it's well calibrated, you're only 2wd when the traction demands are appropriately low. If there's any sort of input, from steering to throttle, it actively sends power.

If someone is truly wheeling though, I can understand wanting full time awd/4wd. I get that some people do that with subarus, so it's a thing...

[SVX WRX]

Originally Posted by Straight6

Please don't ruin Subaru AWD systems with some FWD system that feels like an afterthought. No thanks.

for (my) performance cars, i prefer a RWD-based system for handling.

for my wife's little SUV, i don't care - like i said, i've pushed the AWD button maybe 6 times in almost 9 years. otherwise, its FWD and not wasting gas like a full-time AWD system would. snow tires and FWD are fine in the winter 98% of the time.

not sure why you care so much about Subaru AWD systems since you don't even own one

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by dwf137

Maybe just a difference in years? My outback was a 2014. Hard turn in the dry in the outback would spin the inside front wheel and consequently the traction control systems would pull power, so you felt like a dick if you ever tried to pull out onto a busy street. Absolutely hated it.

My Highlander is a 2018 and has proven to be a complete champ. I absolutely love having the awd lock button for low speed snow maneuvering. So much more powerful, better gas mileage, bigger, no CVT, etc... it's just all around a significantly better vehicle.



That's fine, you do you. I don't care what some dude from Norway has to say. I know what I personally like to drive, and my Golf R and Highlander have proven to be just as good if not better in snow than the two subarus I've owned. My highlander has a display where you can see the power distribution. Under any sort of acceleration power is going to the rear wheels. It's only when you're just cruising, not accelerating, that it drops to fwd only. Same with the Golf R, although I had to log to get that data, no screen to display.

I'd really like to see how you are driving and what you are driving on to spin wheels on an Outback in the dry. To the point of the VDC kicks in. Sorry man, I'm not 100% disbelieving you; but, you'd certainly be driving it in a manner that is far from the norm.

[20WRX20]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I have no interest in a part time Subaru. Even the Solterra is full time permanent magnet on both motors (to it's efficiency detriment). Switching to a RWD bias (permanent rear motor, like Volvo did, to match Tesla, etc) would be more efficient and fun, but also less stable in snow. Tesla Bjorn (Norway) was always uneasy about Tesla driving on hard packed snow covered roads, as compared to Audi and Volvo (they were permanent dual motor). So, if a consumer isn't used to, or expecting some wiggle, they may not like sleeping the front motor.

I don't think I've ever gotten an Active AWD Subaru to spin the front tires. But to be fair they have all had an eMotor at take-off.

I did always like being able to spin the fronts of my RSX. High School was fun. In my race against time, I...

I can get mine to spin the fronts when I am on the 17” winter tires. Ease into it off the line then hammer it around 3k and it’ll spin. I just did it about an hour ago lol.

It won’t do it with the stock wheels/tires unless the temps are in the 40s. I usually put the winters on around this time.

I actually can’t believe the number of cars and SUVs I see driving around on summer tires in winter. It’s dangerous and most of these people have a false sense of security with the AWD. This is why there are always accidents now whenever we get 3” of snow. Honestly winter tires should be mandated. I never drive when the roads are snowy for this very reason.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by 20WRX20

I never drive when the roads are snowy for this very reason.

Why drive a Subaru then?

[20WRX20]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Why drive a Subaru then?

B/c I needed a new car at the time and it was the only vehicle that had a manual, was fun, wasn’t FWD, and didn't cost over 30k. **** 30k to me was expensive enough. I can’t believe people are paying over 40 for these now.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by 20WRX20

B/c I needed a new car at the time and it was the only vehicle that had a manual, was fun, wasn’t FWD, and didn't cost over 30k. **** 30k to me was expensive enough. I can’t believe people are paying over 40 for these now.

I was being cheeky. Driving in snow is what we live for.

[ProZach626]

Originally Posted by 20WRX20

I actually can’t believe the number of cars and SUVs I see driving around on summer tires in winter. It’s dangerous

Not if you ask VB Facebook groups. I had a moron argue against me that his summers were safer than my winters, because hE wAs A beTtEr DrIvEr tHaN mE." He claimed summers were better, because winters gave people false confidence. He was dead set on his argument.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by ProZach626

Not if you ask VB Facebook groups. I had a moron argue against me that his summers were safer than my winters, because hE wAs A beTtEr DrIvEr tHaN mE." He claimed summers were better, because winters gave people false confidence. He was dead set on his argument.

Hahah what a fool. I got caught with summers on my STI in October. We had a freak snow storm during the work day. I had fun slip sliding in the parking lot. Winters went on shortly after.

[20WRX20]

Originally Posted by ProZach626

Not if you ask VB Facebook groups. I had a moron argue against me that his summers were safer than my winters, because hE wAs A beTtEr DrIvEr tHaN mE." He claimed summers were better, because winters gave people false confidence. He was dead set on his argument.

Reason #75 to work remotely whenever possible and avoid sharing the roads with these ever increasing number of morons. I won’t even go to the office when it snows, I use PTO. Can’t stand commuting nowadays it’s gotten so bad.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by 20WRX20

Reason #75 to work remotely whenever possible and avoid sharing the roads with these ever increasing number of morons. I won't even go to the office when it snows, I use PTO. Can't stand commuting nowadays it's gotten so bad.

I worked from home today, but made a run to Dunkin'.

Pirelli Sottozero3 on 18x8 MSW Type 82

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I'd really like to see how you are driving and what you are driving on to spin wheels on an Outback in the dry. To the point of the VDC kicks in. Sorry man, I'm not 100% disbelieving you; but, you'd certainly be driving it in a manner that is far from the norm.

Stop at stop sign. Turn wheel to make right turn onto busy road. Find opening. Hit gas pedal. Wheel slip, followed by loss of power. I have a heavy foot and guaranteed I was asking more of it than the average putzing subaru driver that will give prius drivers a run for their money at being the worst. But I ask the same thing of my Toyota and it doesn't let me down. It's not me, it's the outback and I'm glad it's gone.

My WRX would pull power on me too in similar situations, but I learned to just turn off the traction stuff when I was in a situation where I expected some slip. That car was a lot harder to get slip with than the outback though. Never had to turn off traction stuff in the Golf R for similar situations though, because it didn't just pull throttle and let you fall flat on your face like the WRX did. Without traction turned on, the wrx was fine, but the golf R was smarter so I didn't need to turn off traction to get the same experience.

The worst experience I had in my WRX was when I was on a road in mexico and hit the speed limiter, and the car pulled all throttle. Completely upset the overly soft suspension and I thought I was going to crash. Terrible.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by ProZach626

Not if you ask VB Facebook groups. I had a moron argue against me that his summers were safer than my winters, because hE wAs A beTtEr DrIvEr tHaN mE." He claimed summers were better, because winters gave people false confidence. He was dead set on his argument.

I live in CT & I am still running my 360TW UHP Summers on my RWD IS350. I have a set of winter wheels & tires, but I haven't put them on this season, at this point, I don't think I'm going to have to either.

I primarily WFH, I only go into the office to train others, and those days are flexible, so we can just reschedule if the weather is bad, or have a teams meeting & share screens.

I do leave the house daily to pick up my kids in the afternoon/early evening from daycare & aftercare, it's under 7.0mi loop, even if I make some local stops, highest speed limit I see is 40mph. I can always use my wifes PHEV Sorento if needed as she's usually home before I need to leave to pick them up.
If the weather is really bad, the school & daycare are usually closed, if they aren't closed, then the roads are clear by the time I have to leave to pick my kids up anyways. We also use my wife's CUV on the weekends & for family related stuff.

My winter set is in my garage so I can throw them on whenever, but I just haven't had to yet this season.

I've always argued that tires are more important than driveline, if I had to drive in crappy weather, I'd take a 2wd car with snow tires over an AWD car with summers or all seasons. The AWD car might have an easier time getting off the line & accelerating, but the 2wd car with proper tires is going to go around corners and stop significantly better than the AWD car, which is way more important.

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I worked from home today, but made a run to Dunkin'.

Pirelli Sottozero3 on 18x8 MSW Type 82

How do you like the sottozero3 & what width are you running? My current winter set is a square 17x8 w/225 firestone winterforce2s (smallest wheel that would clear the front calipers, took a while to find a 17 that would), I regret going so narrow of a tire, it ruins the vehicle dynamics compared to my 18x9 w/255 square summer setup; I definitely need a wider winter setup, 225s are just too narrow for a 3,600lb car, the firestones are painfully squishy even though they are on an 8" wheel, granted a 17" wheel means more sidewall than an 18, but I think the squish is more due to the firestone construction & compound than the extra sidewall.

I was looking at the Michelin Alpin, possibly a 245 or 255 on an 18, or a 235 or 245 on the 17's. summers will go to a 265 this spring, might move up to a 18x9.5 in place of the 18x9 if I have the clearance up front/can get the right offset, which means my 18x9 former summer wheels could become my winter wheels. I can also always use the factory staggered set, but I don't like staggered wheels, hence buying the square sets in the first place.

Totally off topic for this thread, but lets be honest, not a whole lot going on to talk about anyways.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

I live in CT & I am still running my 360TW UHP Summers on my RWD IS350. I have a set of winter wheels & tires, but I haven't put them on this season, at this point, I don't think I'm going to have to either.

I primarily WFH, I only go into the office to train others, and those days are flexible, so we can just reschedule if the weather is bad, or have a teams meeting & share screens.

I do leave the house daily to pick up my kids in the afternoon/early evening from daycare & aftercare, it's under 7.0mi loop, even if I make some local stops, highest speed limit I see is 40mph. I can always use my wifes PHEV Sorento if needed as she's usually home before I need to leave to pick them up.
If the weather is really bad, the school & daycare are usually closed, if they aren't closed, then the roads are clear by the time I have to leave to pick my kids up anyways. We also use my wife's CUV on the weekends & for family related stuff.

My winter set is in my garage so I can throw them on whenever, but I just haven't had to yet this season.

I've always argued that tires are more important than driveline, if I had to drive in crappy weather, I'd take a 2wd car with snow tires over an AWD car with summers or all seasons. The AWD car might have an easier time getting off the line & accelerating, but the 2wd car with proper tires is going to go around corners and stop significantly better than the AWD car, which is way more important.



How do you like the sottozero3 & what width are you running? My current winter set is a square 17x8 w/225 firestone winterforce2s (smallest wheel that would clear the front calipers, took a while to find a 17 that would), I regret going so narrow of a tire, it ruins the vehicle dynamics compared to my 18x9 w/255 square summer setup; I definitely need a wider winter setup, 225s are just too narrow for a 3,600lb car, the firestones are painfully squishy even though they are on an 8" wheel, granted a 17" wheel means more sidewall than an 18, but I think the squish is more due to the firestone construction & compound than the extra sidewall.

I was looking at the Michelin Alpin, possibly a 245 or 255 on an 18, or a 235 or 245 on the 17's. summers will go to a 265 this spring, might move up to a 18x9.5 in place of the 18x9 if I have the clearance up front/can get the right offset, which means my 18x9 former summer wheels could become my winter wheels. I can also always use the factory staggered set, but I don't like staggered wheels, hence buying the square sets in the first place.

Totally off topic for this thread, but lets be honest, not a whole lot going on to talk about anyways.

I had Michelin Alpin PA4's on one of my WRXs. Loved them all winter.

So, the car comes stock (optional) with staggered summer tires (Pirelli PZero AR). 19x8 225/40-19 and 19x9 255/35-19.

For the winter, I run square 18x8 Pirelli Sottozero 3 in 225/45-18. The rims are MSW Type 82 (made for Alfas. MSW is owned by OZ Rally of Italy).

I like the Pirelli's a lot. It feels fairly similar to stock, but I am not pushing them very hard.

You really shouldn't use summer tires below 45F. Dry or not.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Sid03SVT

I was looking at the Michelin Alpin, possibly a 245 or 255 on an 18, or a 235 or 245 on the 17's. summers will go to a 265 this spring, might move up to a 18x9.5 in place of the 18x9 if I have the clearance up front/can get the right offset, which means my 18x9 former summer wheels could become my winter wheels. I can also always use the factory staggered set, but I don't like staggered wheels, hence buying the square sets in the first place.

I ran the Alpin's on my Golf R in the winter. I loved them. They were way better in the dry and wet than dedicated snow tires, and while not quite as bomber as true snow/ice tires in those conditions, they were miles better than an all season. Great tire for a spirited daily driver in mixed conditions.

[21ej]

I can add that I currently have the Michelin Alpin PA4 Winters. 245/35 19. They are great in the snow and ice. The grip on ice is where they really shine. I swap back to my summer wheels as soon as I get back from a trip to the snow so they haven’t seen much dry pavement but I can confirm they perform well not only in snow and ice, but also handle good on bare pavement for a dedicated winter tire.
Don’t get me wrong, I can’t say they have the same feeling as a true summer tire but they’re not wallowy and vague feeing like Blizzaks. Although, Blizzaks aren’t even available in a 19” so not a direct comparison but I have ran Blizzaks (once) on my previous car and I hated them in anything but deep snow. Tire roll was terrible even at high pressures and hydroplaned like no other.
The Michelin's are fairly lightweight for a winter tire, too.

[Sid03SVT]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I had Michelin Alpin PA4's on one of my WRXs. Loved them all winter.

So, the car comes stock (optional) with staggered summer tires (Pirelli PZero AR). 19x8 225/40-19 and 19x9 255/35-19.

For the winter, I run square 18x8 Pirelli Sottozero 3 in 225/45-18. The rims are MSW Type 82 (made for Alfas. MSW is owned by OZ Rally of Italy).

I like the Pirelli's a lot. It feels fairly similar to stock, but I am not pushing them very hard.

You really shouldn't use summer tires below 45F. Dry or not.

Thanks for the feedback on the Michelins & the Pirellis; my IS also came stock with a staggered set (18x8 225/40r18 front and 18x8.5 255/35r18 rear). I really don't like the firestones I have on my current winter set, before next winter the are gone, I just need to decide if I'm going 17s or 18s.

I'd generally agree with you on the summer tire thing, it varies by compound & manufacturer, my current set is fine as long as ambient temps are above freezing & the sun is out, again it's in town driving, in the afternoon when the roads are at their warmest. I've definitely had summers I didn't want to be on at anything below 45F (Firehawks for example), but my current set has a surprisingly wide temperature range; also if I had to commute or do more driving, I would have swapped them out in November like I used to. We've also had "warm" winters the past couple years, aside from the current coldsnap, temps are generally above 40 during the day.

Originally Posted by dwf137

I ran the Alpin's on my Golf R in the winter. I loved them. They were way better in the dry and wet than dedicated snow tires, and while not quite as bomber as true snow/ice tires in those conditions, they were miles better than an all season. Great tire for a spirited daily driver in mixed conditions.

Originally Posted by 21ej

I can add that I currently have the Michelin Alpin PA4 Winters. 245/35 19. They are great in the snow and ice. The grip on ice is where they really shine. I swap back to my summer wheels as soon as I get back from a trip to the snow so they haven't seen much dry pavement but I can confirm they perform well not only in snow and ice, but also handle good on bare pavement for a dedicated winter tire.
Don't get me wrong, I can't say they have the same feeling as a true summer tire but they're not wallowy and vague feeing like Blizzaks. Although, Blizzaks aren't even available in a 19" so not a direct comparison but I have ran Blizzaks (once) on my previous car and I hated them in anything but deep snow. Tire roll was terrible even at high pressures and hydroplaned like no other.
The Michelin's are fairly lightweight for a winter tire, too.

Thanks for the additional feedback on the Michelins dwf & 21ej.