Bartender: One Scotty's cocktail please.

[rkramer]

No. His transmission uses Dexron ATF (yes, for the manual transmission as well as the AT, don't even bother arguing with me, that's right from SI.) USC would kill his tranny. (Might be killing yours, too.)

My old Ford escort used ATF also for the manual trans. (and shifted MUCH better than a subaru transmission!)

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[jhargis]

ATF is made to have properties that are beneficial to wet clutches in automatic transmissions... These same frictional properties are good for smooth synchro operation as well. A synchro is not THAT far different from a clutch in principle. So a lot of FWD/RWD manual transmissions that don't have hypoid differentials sharing the oil use ATF or even lighter weight motor oil... pretty common really.

IMHO, there isn't a gl-5 gear oil out there that will make synchro operation as smooth as ATF, but we can't use ATF in our Subarus because it doesn't have the high pressure load handling needed by our front diff. SO the transmission would shift nicely for a while but the front ring & pinion would eat itself.

Putting gear oil in a transmission designed to use ATF would probably result in terribly shift feel.

[Mulder]

Originally Posted by renow

i have a guy i work with that is interested but he has a corvette! will this work out for him as well? cause ima bout to put it in mine soon!

Your co-worker should be getting maintenance information from his owners manual plus the Corvette forums, and NOT from a Subaru board.
The 'Vette has a Tremec T-56 trans, same as my GTO does, and they use Dexron ATF. There is plenty of info on the appropriate forums regarding alternative lubricants.

[Rickyh]

I wish there was a way to put a t56 in my car. That is one stout transmission.

[DS1]

^^ if you don't mind it eating syncros and having all kinds of lubrication issues

[Superorb]

Originally Posted by CUwrx

Ok I'm new to this but have been trying to do my homework, my '02 wrx has 101...K on it, and it wont let me put it in first unless the car is stopped or under 5mph. I am going to put new fluid everywhere so I guess some suggestions on what I should use would be great. I live in Alabama during the summer and go to college in upstate New York during the winter months. So is there such a thing/mix that would work well for me and still help the tranny??

also what is the best fluid for the rear diff???
Thanks.

The whole putting into 1st gear is a design flaw, not a lubrication problem.

I'll let someone else chime in about the other details.

[Rickyh]

..........

[brandonwrx06]

how important is it to use gl-5, and what about amsoil maunal transmisson transxle fluid, its 75w90 gl-4 what would that do in the tranny? not good or is it ok?

[Superorb]

Originally Posted by brandonwrx06

how important is it to use gl-5, and what about amsoil maunal transmisson transxle fluid, its 75w90 gl-4 what would that do in the tranny? not good or is it ok?

Subaru requires GL-5 in their manual, so it's pretty important. Waiting for DS1 for a more scientific answer

[ringe]

If you read up on it a bit both in this thread and elsewhere (more likely to glean good info elsewhere) you will find that our cars require GL-5 fluid in the transmission because it shares duties with the front hypoid differential (which is what actually needs GL-5).

[brandonwrx06]

so what happens if you dont run gl-4? will it mess your tranny up?

and is redline 75w90 NS a good choice for tranny fluid

[Superorb]

Originally Posted by brandonwrx06

so what happens if you dont run gl-4? will it mess your tranny up?

and is redline 75w90 NS a good choice for tranny fluid

The manual states that we MUST use a GL-5 oil. Why don't you put GL-4 in there and let us know what happens.

[RayO]

Some time ago Cobb used to recommend redline MT-90, which is GL-4. I used it, and then switched to the 75w90 NS, which is GL-5, and what Redline recommended. This was all back before the USC got popular, and before the "good" Subaru gear oil was available. Based on what I'm reading in this thread lately, there are several good alternatives available now that don't have the contradictions that the older fluid choices had.

[Gixxer1K]

Hey guys I stumbled upon the following which is kind of interesting.

http://www.redlineoil-europe.com/pow...erPack%5F00033

Subaru WRX PowerPack

Reduced turbo lag, smoother shifting, improved fuel economy and cooler operating temperatures are among the benefits of the WRX PowerPack from Red Line Oil. Dyno testing shows significant horsepower and torque gains all over the power range.

Subaru WRX PowerPack
This PowerPack contains:
5 US Quarts of 5W30 Engine Oil

4 US Quarts of 75W90NS

1 US Quart of 75W90

One bottle of WaterWetter 355ml

One bottle of SI-1 Fuel Cleaner 443ml

A sticker kit and a Red Line cap

[Soul Shinobi]

That's called the "Buy All of Our Products at Once, You Gullible Tit" marketing technique.

[Gixxer1K]

I won't disagree about Eurotrash but what about that package is inappropriate?

[Soul Shinobi]

The transmission fluid has proved to be of no help to the issues this thread discusses, the engine oil is way overpriced to start for little (if any) benefit over full synthetics costing half as much, the fuel injector cleaner is also way overpriced, and if this wasn't enough to keep the package from being an actual 'deal' they expect you to do some advertising for them.

[03silvsubie]

after about 3,000 miles, i had to drain out my USC mix because of shifter notchiness and some grinding in 3rd and 5th. I put in straight amsoil severe gear 75wX90 150 miles ago, and so far the difference in how the shifter feels is much improved! grinding and notchiness has pretty much gone away.
-1 for USC mix, +1 for amsoil!

[ringe]

Originally Posted by brandonwrx06

so what happens if you dont run gl-4? will it mess your tranny up?

and is redline 75w90 NS a good choice for tranny fluid

You risk damage, yes.

I am running 75w-90NS, and now that the tranny is fully broken in I am loving it.

[ringe]

Originally Posted by Soul Shinobi

The transmission fluid has proved to be of no help to the issues this thread discusses, the engine oil is way overpriced to start for little (if any) benefit over full synthetics costing half as much, the fuel injector cleaner is also way overpriced, and if this wasn't enough to keep the package from being an actual 'deal' they expect you to do some advertising for them.

The thing to remember is that most people who use USC and have had good results are the ones who have already frakked their trannies and are trying to mask the problem. For everyone else, there are a number of much better long term alternatives, one of which is the redline 75w-90ns, and there are others.

Other than that you are pretty much correct.

[strohausii]

Originally Posted by ringe

The thing to remember is that most people who use USC and have had good results are the ones who have already frakked their trannies and are trying to mask the problem

Ringe and how do you know this or are you just repeating someone else's words as your own?
Isn't DS1 against any use of redline in the Tranny since you are obviously quoting him? But you use it anyways?
I've only seen good responses to the redline tranny oil, but seems Amsoil has a better fan base.
Has 1 (5 spd) owner yet admitted to being one of the "victims" of the dreaded USC mixture? I am not "defending" the USC, but the stated weakness has always been the VERY short longevity (synchromesh) @ 20k. As pointed out earlier in this thread by jhagris, some owners do not ever end up changing out their gear oil for the LIFE of the car (I'm sure you all know people like that too). By only reading this post, chances are you are not one of "them".

There have been more problems with breaking 5spds, and it appears the build quality of the 2002 WRX 5spds in particular are suspect by the amount of gear noise when a lightweight flywheel is added.

Gixxer: If you look into it, you just might find out the European spec. oil might actually hold the oil companies to a higher standard (ie: ACEA A3)

//I do feel DS1 is justified in his opinion on the cocktail due to the long term effects the cocktail may have on the transmission, especially if not changed out in time.//

[jhargis]

^^^ That's what worries me most about the cocktail. I've seen a lot of cars go basically forever with the factory gear oil. Now that's not a good thing, but it happens, often without as much as a second thought from the owner. I mean I've seen OLD toyota pickups with like 200,000+ hard miles still on the stock fluid before. You change the stuff out in a vehicle like that, and it helps the shifting a bit, but nothing otherworldy. Basically the shift bushings fail faster than the gear oil on a lot of cars. Again, this is nothing I would endorse, but it does happen A LOT. Plenty of drivers out there don't even know that the transmission and engine have seperate fluids in their cars.

So if this cocktail stuff can't even hold up to 15,000 miles without noticable degradation in performance, then it's definitely something I don't want in my gearbox.

[e[tx]]

Ok ok so ive been doing alot of reading about this cocktail stuff but after about page 6 my eyes really started to burn.

I just have a quick question im sure someone can answer me about the 04 sti tranny and rear diff fluid. I get that the rear diff fluid should be the subaru gl 5 brand, but for my tranny i currently have 16000 miles on it and second feels crunchy but the rest of the gears feel fine. I think second is ok, it seems to function properly just a little rough going in.

Doing the maitennance isnt really hard at all and Id like to change the fluid soon i just have two questions.

Since my tranny does not have that many miles on it am i better off sticking with the newer subaru gear oil or is a switch to something like a 100% Redline lightweight shockproof better off. It doesnt sound like my car needs the full cocktail and i havent read much about the cocktail in a 6mt sti tranny.

Also, with a oil like the redline lightweight shockproof will i have to change the fluid every 15000 miles like the full cocktail?

[DS1]

there are a few differences between GL-4 and GL-5 rated fluids:

API GL-4
The designation API GL-4 denotes lubricants intended for
axles with spiral bevel gears operating under moderate to severe
conditions of speed and load or axles with hypoid (see
note)gears operating under moderate speeds and loads.
These oils may be used in selected manual transmission and
transaxle applications where MT-1 lubricants are unsuitable.
The manufacturerÕs specific lubricant quality recommendations
should be followed.
Although this service designation is still used commercially
to describe lubricants, some test equipment used for
performance verification is no longer available. Procedures
to define this performance are currently being reviewed for
adoption by ASTM.
Note: Frictional requirements for axles equipped with limited-slip differentials
are normally defined by the axle manufacturer.

API GL-5
The designation API GL-5 denotes lubricants intended for
gears, particularly hypoid (see note) gears, in axles operating
under various combinations of high-speed/shock load and
low-speed/high-torque conditions. Lubricants qualified under
U.S. Military Specification MIL-L-2105D (formerly
MIL-L-2105C) satisfy the requirements of the API GL-5 service
designation, although the API designation does not require
military approval. Performance test details are in
ASTM Publication STP-512A.
Note: Frictional requirements for axles equipped with limited-slip differentials
are normally defined by the axle manufacturer.

Now that we got that out of the way

Cobb used to recommend the 75w90NS, we tried it in 02' and had nothing but issues with it causing grinds in 2nd-5th in every box we tried it in.

I have noticed lately (about 3 of the 4 boxes disassembled this week) that have had Shock proof in them have had a build up of the pudding I'm used to seeing only in cold weather.

It gathers on the inside of the out put shaft where the front pinion is housed and in the transfer case section under where 5th gear resides.

I'm going to start keeping a log of the boxes I disassemble to see if I can track specific part failures to certain fluids.

-Dylan @ DS1

[2slofouru]

(we'd like some pics, Dylan, like the mfactory gears pic )