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Old 10-27-2015, 09:30 AM   #9976
poison
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I'll have to send you some of my pumpkin spice to compare. hahahahah
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:31 AM   #9977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyarz View Post
The changing of the guard:
How's your morning?
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:47 PM   #9978
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Originally Posted by poison View Post
How's your morning?
Haha not bad. I live ~5 minutes from work, so the post-lunch quad cap helped!

We've gone through a pound and a half of beans since last Thursday. We're usually through that much in 7-8 days, so it's not too elevated.
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:58 PM   #9979
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What do you think of the astra so far?
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:37 PM   #9980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
What do you think of the astra so far?
This is pretty much stream of consciousness. I haven't sat down to really formulate my thoughts yet, but here goes. (in no particular order)

-Steam power is nice - an 8 oz drink takes maybe 10 seconds compared to ~45-60 with the gaggia.

-Warm up is faster than I expected, although I haven't timed it.

-I can physically pull a shot and steam at the same time, but when I do I'm never happy with the shot.

-It's surprisingly easy to choke - on par with the gaggia if not a little easier. I was hoping it would be a stronger machine, but I guess the jury's still out on that one.

-I've never owned (or used) a HX-style machine. I've read all about the cooling flush, but darned if I can tell when I'm supposed to stop; there's some extra steam that comes out, but the water never "dances". I've tried taking temps in a shot glass with idle times anywhere from 20 minutes to 10 seconds, and all temps have been 185+/- 5. I guess that means good temp stability, but what does that mean for a cooling flush?

-Holy power cord batman! I could use about four feet less. It's tough to wrap that monster up on the counter top. Note to self: I need to figure out what else is on that same circuit.

-The heater cycles on at 15psi and off at 18psi. It takes 10 seconds to heat, and 50 seconds to cool, all day every day - like clockwork. It feels a little too often for me, but I guess I could equate that with keeping tighter temp control than the gaggia.

-I've been using the bottomless portafilter on the gaggia, and it was surprisingly difficult to go back to a double spout. I feel like I don't know what's going on anymore, although I'm sure it will just take time.

-No sight glass on the reservoir makes me nervous. I'm already trying to think of ways to make a gauge. To fit our counter tops, the fill cap is pretty much inaccessible. I need to pull the machine out a little ways to check it and fill it up. I feel like I can generally keep track of the water I use pulling shots and steaming, but I don't have a handle on the random pump cycles to fill the boiler.

-The drip tray needs a handle! That water is hot!

-I can't steam a pitcher of milk without terrible screeching. My trick for that on the gaggia was to let in a little more air. When I do that now, I get a frothy mess. Usually I can still get a decent pour, but very over aerated. More practice!

Reading over that all again, it sounds like a lot of complaints, but it's not intended to be negative. A lot of that (hopefully) can be corrected by learning, although it's tough to learn a new machine when I'm not entirely sure what they behavior of said machine should be i.e. is what I'm seeing normal? A buddy of mine has a good thermocouple, so I want to take some data points this week and try to get some baselines when I get a good shot.
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Old 10-28-2015, 01:01 AM   #9981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyarz View Post
This is pretty much stream of consciousness. I haven't sat down to really formulate my thoughts yet, but here goes. (in no particular order)

-Steam power is nice - an 8 oz drink takes maybe 10 seconds compared to ~45-60 with the gaggia.
No kidding. Prodigious.

Quote:
-Warm up is faster than I expected, although I haven't timed it.
It is fast, but....30 minutes is better than 20.

Quote:
-I can physically pull a shot and steam at the same time, but when I do I'm never happy with the shot.
It can definitely handle it, but I never bother, due to the speed of steaming.

Quote:
-It's surprisingly easy to choke - on par with the gaggia if not a little easier. I was hoping it would be a stronger machine, but I guess the jury's still out on that one.
Ok...easy to choke has nothing to do with build quality of the machine, or ability to pull excellent shots, in fact it's the opposite. Gaggia, and most other low end machines, bill themselves as having 'professional 18 bar pumps'. THis is ridiculous, because espresso is pulled at 8.5-9 bar. A lot of those low end machines come set up with pumps brewing with too much pressure, my assumption is the manufacturer is setting it up to extract the maximum from whatever stale, preground, prepackaged stuff most people use. The Astra is set up to brew at 8.5-9 bar, so there's zero correlation between the grind you'd use on the Gaggia and the Astra. In addition, the E61 delivers water to the coffee in a different manner than the Gaggia, due to the design of the group. It's much gentler on the coffee puck, doesn't come on in one hard hit, and overall is capable of much more sweetness and clarity.

Quote:
-I've never owned (or used) a HX-style machine. I've read all about the cooling flush, but darned if I can tell when I'm supposed to stop; there's some extra steam that comes out, but the water never "dances". I've tried taking temps in a shot glass with idle times anywhere from 20 minutes to 10 seconds, and all temps have been 185+/- 5. I guess that means good temp stability, but what does that mean for a cooling flush?
Let it heat for 30 minutes. The flush is easy; at first it'll steam and sputter and hiss, but once all that stops, and it's simply flowing, turn it off, start counting 'one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two' etc, as you lock in the prepped PF. When you shut it off, the water temp should be 198 or so, and each second you count, should raise temps a degree (keep in mind those numbers may not be completely accurate, but they will be very consistent; instead of 198, it might be 197 or 199, but it'll be the same every time, or very very close). So if you are brewing a super mellow, darker roasted Sumatra, you might brew at 2 seconds; a light, bright Ethiopia might brew at 5 seconds. General rule: if it's sour, go hotter; if it tastes burnt, go cooler.

Quote:
-Holy power cord batman! I could use about four feet less. It's tough to wrap that monster up on the counter top. Note to self: I need to figure out what else is on that same circuit.
It's a beast. I laugh every time I see it.

Quote:
-The heater cycles on at 15psi and off at 18psi. It takes 10 seconds to heat, and 50 seconds to cool, all day every day - like clockwork. It feels a little too often for me, but I guess I could equate that with keeping tighter temp control than the gaggia.
That's a good thing.

Quote:
-I've been using the bottomless portafilter on the gaggia, and it was surprisingly difficult to go back to a double spout. I feel like I don't know what's going on anymore, although I'm sure it will just take time.
Well yeah, get a bottomless, but...bottomless does NOT taste as good. Period. Fact. So....? Your call.

Quote:
-No sight glass on the reservoir makes me nervous. I'm already trying to think of ways to make a gauge. To fit our counter tops, the fill cap is pretty much inaccessible. I need to pull the machine out a little ways to check it and fill it up. I feel like I can generally keep track of the water I use pulling shots and steaming, but I don't have a handle on the random pump cycles to fill the boiler.
Just ignore it and run it down. It'll ask for water. Trust me.

Quote:
-The drip tray needs a handle! That water is hot!
Don't wait til it's full!

Quote:
-I can't steam a pitcher of milk without terrible screeching. My trick for that on the gaggia was to let in a little more air. When I do that now, I get a frothy mess. Usually I can still get a decent pour, but very over aerated. More practice!
Open it up all the way. It's probably screeching because you're not.

Quote:
Reading over that all again, it sounds like a lot of complaints, but it's not intended to be negative. A lot of that (hopefully) can be corrected by learning, although it's tough to learn a new machine when I'm not entirely sure what they behavior of said machine should be i.e. is what I'm seeing normal? A buddy of mine has a good thermocouple, so I want to take some data points this week and try to get some baselines when I get a good shot.
Don't do it. Learn to brew based on taste, with your senses first. You're not always going to have a thermocouple around. Stop worrying about the machine, it's VERY capable. Figure out the reverse temp surf, and concentrate on dialing in one coffee, taste every shot, and don't change more than one variable at a time.

I can try to take a video and upload it, if you like.
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Old 10-28-2015, 08:11 AM   #9982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
Ok...easy to choke has nothing to do with build quality of the machine, or ability to pull excellent shots, in fact it's the opposite. Gaggia, and most other low end machines, bill themselves as having 'professional 18 bar pumps'. THis is ridiculous, because espresso is pulled at 8.5-9 bar. A lot of those low end machines come set up with pumps brewing with too much pressure, my assumption is the manufacturer is setting it up to extract the maximum from whatever stale, preground, prepackaged stuff most people use. The Astra is set up to brew at 8.5-9 bar, so there's zero correlation between the grind you'd use on the Gaggia and the Astra. In addition, the E61 delivers water to the coffee in a different manner than the Gaggia, due to the design of the group. It's much gentler on the coffee puck, doesn't come on in one hard hit, and overall is capable of much more sweetness and clarity.
Gotcha. Makes sense.
Quote:
Let it heat for 30 minutes. The flush is easy; at first it'll steam and sputter and hiss, but once all that stops, and it's simply flowing, turn it off...
That's the thing, the flow never really changes. It's always pretty smooth, no sputtering. If there were a more well defined moment, I'd spot it.
Quote:
I can try to take a video and upload it, if you like.
If you wouldn't mind, that would probably help.
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:25 AM   #9983
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Sputtering: No problem, just run a couple OZ, lock in, count, and go. A buddy of mine has a newer one which behaves differently than my 4.5yo unit.

I'll try to take a vid this weekend!
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Old 10-28-2015, 01:45 PM   #9984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
Sputtering: No problem, just run a couple OZ, lock in, count, and go.
I've been flushing with portafilter in, dump grounds, tamp, lock, and go. Today at lunch I flushed without the portafilter, and the sputtering was much more apparent. It took longer to flush than what I had been estimating with portafilter in. I pulled a shot with a 2 second wait - much better, although a little sour. I think 5 may be the way to go, but now that I've got that part down, I can tweak and get it where I need.

That being said, as long as the portafilter is warm, it shouldn't matter whether I flush with or without, right?
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:05 PM   #9985
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Absolutely flush without, so you can see! Also, prepare the pf, set it aside, flush, lock, count, go. Flushing before pf preparation isn't going to help, since it takes much more than 2-5sec to dose and tamp.
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:41 PM   #9986
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Any updates, Brad?

Also, any other Panama feedback?
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:19 PM   #9987
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I'm getting more comfortable with the Astra; shots are getting more consistent. My go to espresso has been harsh in the Astra compared to the Gaggia - very aggressive. I tried under-dosing and going finer on the grind, and it calmed down a bit.

Steaming is still noisy. It starts out fine, but after 5-6 seconds the screech ramps up. The last 2-3 second is very loud, almost like if you were to start dialing back on the steam. I need to log more time on it.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:38 PM   #9988
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Going finer made it less harsh? Hmmm. It should be the opposite.

Milk: bury the wand, and open it all the way.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:46 PM   #9989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
bury the wand, and open it all the way.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:47 PM   #9990
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Yessir!
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:47 AM   #9991
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Kona is processed and for sale, I'll be buying soon!
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:03 AM   #9992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison View Post
Any updates, Brad?

Also, any other Panama feedback?
I did not see any one else, but I quite enjoyed the panama and would likely buy it again. We had while on vacation and the coffee equipment was less than ideal, blade grinder, had to heat water in a pot. Then when packing up we forgot it . I was excited to try it back home. Speaking of kona, are you planning on doing the holiday sampler again this year?
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:13 AM   #9993
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Yessir, but I probably won't include the Kona in it this year. Prices went up a lot.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:46 PM   #9994
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Yessir, but I probably won't include the Kona in it this year. Prices went up a lot.
I didn't think the kona was ever in it, I just remember seeing the kona picture on the site while I was ordering the sampler.
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:32 PM   #9995
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Oh yeah, I've slipped it in there, when I had enough around, but today I went to see if the Kona was available yet, and yikes, prices went up. I don't want to raise the sample box price to reflect that.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:59 AM   #9996
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Dat Panama. Omnomnom!
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:47 AM   #9997
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Hell yes! I'm sitting at peets drinking some Panama now! :middlefinger:

Kona ordered, BTW. It'll be up this week.
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:07 AM   #9998
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Almost time for a new thread!
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:09 AM   #9999
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Whoa, almost 10 years to the day!
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:09 AM   #10000
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Aaaaaaaaand GO!
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