The New WRX (MY2023+) RUMORS ONLY

[chanomatik]

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[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by neg_matnik

IMO, the SPT is fine if you absolutely want a WRX/AWD and if you prefer or need an auto tranny.
But, we now live in a world in which Hyundai has developed a very good 8-speed "wet" DCT.
And it's available in vehicles that are significantly less expensive that the current WRX GT.
Now, the jury is still out on how well that in-house Hyundai DCT will hold up over time, but, for now, it's way more satisfying to drive/operate than any SPT/HTCVT out there.

You've driven the SPT?

Originally Posted by thill

You mean aside from it having worse performance and MPG than a manual transmission car in 2022? It's clear Subaru used the CVT to keep costs down when a performance car deserves a proper automatic like a ZF or a DCT. You should easily be able to beat a manual in both performance and MPG using a modern day automatic in 2022.

But that's deflecting from the fact that Subaru packaged the sportiest package (Recaro and adjustable dampers) on the least sporty model (CVT) that has far fewer buyers based on historical sales. It's pretty clear Subaru was trying to push buyers to the CVT model by offering it more popular features that really should be sold in both models. I bet quite a few buyers were pissed about that, and perhaps has delayed some sales as some buyers expect a 2023 WRX manual with those options.

Killing off the STI and then handicapping the manual WRX just seems very shortsighted by Subaru.

First paragraph is still speculation at this point.


Second paragraph I've agreed to in the past.


Last one though, is backwards. They handicapped the WRX and it had been on sale for months before they officially killed the STI. I'd wager that if the decision to kill the STI came much sooner(like years ago), there would be a manual GT. That's my guess.

Originally Posted by n2oiroc

why would it suddenly be quicker? it's the same crappy cvt with a new name.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

rally 4, you should be ashamed of yourself.

And why is that?

[SCRAPPYDO]

Originally Posted by Straight6

Best thread on this site in a long time.
Handful (literally) of posters that were forced to lease ****box automatics hating on a car they dream they could be driving. They always come back.

Nobody is dreaming about owning a WRX. I have had 4. They are decent daily drivers, but not aspirational type of cars anymore. They have drifted too far from the performance roots that started them. They have no real rally heritage left (NO WRC.. no rally heritage. Nobody cares an ounce about Xgames crap). Isle of man was a joke.

They are a lifted Crosstrek sedan now. Which is fine as that will sell. I am happy you like it. I hope you love it and enjoy driving it. But you will never talk the vast majority of Subaru fans and other people that it is not an ugly car.

Hopefully Subaru has heard this revision maligned enough to be issuing a change immediately like they did in 2008, and admit the mistake.

When Subaru admits it was ugly as hell, and redesigns it, I hope you still find joy in your WRX if you ordered one.

[4S-TURBO]

They really don't need to fix (ie paint) much for it to still look aggressive and presentable as a sports sedan. Americans like sporty sports sedans and Europe doesn't Subaru, so no hatchback made sense. If Subaru is going with a hatchback they would likely still keep all the black plastic. So I'm curious what this thread is about.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Nobody is dreaming about owning a WRX. I have had 4. They are decent daily drivers, but not aspirational type of cars anymore. They have drifted too far from the performance roots that started them. They have no real rally heritage left (NO WRC.. no rally heritage. Nobody cares an ounce about Xgames crap). Isle of man was a joke.

They are a lifted Crosstrek sedan now. Which is fine as that will sell. I am happy you like it. I hope you love it and enjoy driving it. But you will never talk the vast majority of Subaru fans and other people that it is not an ugly car.

Hopefully Subaru has heard this revision maligned enough to be issuing a change immediately like they did in 2008, and admit the mistake.

When Subaru admits it was ugly as hell, and redesigns it, I hope you still find joy in your WRX if you ordered one.

Especially not an automatic WRX.

Back to the rally comment, VTCar is working on a MY22 ARA car. I wonder if it will use the 2.4 or continue with the JDM EJ?

"Finally, a special miniseries titled Launch Control: Next Stage will arrive around the end of 2022 and provide an unprecedented look at the development of the next Subaru rally car: an all-new machine based on the 2022 WRX and built to the upcoming 2023 ARA Open Class rule set.

New Launch Control episodes will release on Subaru of America’s YouTube channel on Wednesdays starting July 27."

https://media.subaru.com/pressreleas...ew-format-2022

Originally Posted by rallly 4

And why is that?

We would all like to know (although I can guess).

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

You've driven the SPT? [...]

Have you driven Hyundai's 8-speed DCT? Or any other DCT for that matter?

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by neg_matnik

Have you driven Hyundai's 8-speed DCT? Or any other DCT for that matter?

A DCT yes. Hyundai's new one, no. But, I am also not saying Hyundai's DCT is crap or even less than the SPT. You are making a comparison without having driven it.

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

A DCT yes. Hyundai's new one, no. But, I am also not saying Hyundai's DCT is crap or even less than the SPT. You are making a comparison without having driven it.

Please re-read what I said. I never said the SPT was crap; I just said that there are better trannies out there. It's an opinion and it's an educated one.
Also, despite having said all of that, I would get a WRX Wagon Levorg with a HTCVT/SPT just because I highly value the wagon body style and I can compromise on the tranny to get that wagon body style.
Also, I'm not selling my '19 Golf R DSG no matter what; I'm looking for a second car to park next to the Golf .

[heavyD]

Originally Posted by rallly 4

And why is that?

Leaking company information? Not selling your soul to become a Subaru schill? Who knows. I like the insider stuff myself.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by heavyD

Leaking company information? Not selling your soul to become a Subaru schill? Who knows. I like the insider stuff myself.

The only people in the automotive industry who should be shamed is the greedy dealership owners and operators who are price gouging customers during bad economic times. My .02

[4S-TURBO]

Aren't these same greedy dealership owners the ones pushing the argument that this WRX is a dud because they aren't commanding the fat ADMs others in the segment are fetching?

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by neg_matnik

Please re-read what I said. I never said the SPT was crap; I just said that there are better trannies out there. It's an opinion and it's an educated one.
Also, despite having said all of that, I would get a WRX Wagon Levorg with a HTCVT/SPT just because I highly value the wagon body style and I can compromise on the tranny to get that wagon body style.
Also, I'm not selling my '19 Golf R DSG no matter what; I'm looking for a second car to park next to the Golf .

Oops. Sorry. I had another part of my post thinking you called it crappy when I realized it wasn't you and changed it and I missed taking it out of the other part of my post. I'm totally fine with opinions. Just odd you're giving one on something you haven't experienced. Kinda like someone I just interacted with saying the Galactic Starcruiser isn't worth the money yet hasn't been.

[YungBoba]

Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO

Nobody is dreaming about owning a WRX. I have had 4. They are decent daily drivers, but not aspirational type of cars anymore. They have drifted too far from the performance roots that started them. They have no real rally heritage left (NO WRC.. no rally heritage. Nobody cares an ounce about Xgames crap). Isle of man was a joke.

They are a lifted Crosstrek sedan now. Which is fine as that will sell. I am happy you like it. I hope you love it and enjoy driving it. But you will never talk the vast majority of Subaru fans and other people that it is not an ugly car.

Hopefully Subaru has heard this revision maligned enough to be issuing a change immediately like they did in 2008, and admit the mistake.

When Subaru admits it was ugly as hell, and redesigns it, I hope you still find joy in your WRX if you ordered one.

What happened in 2008? I don't recall so if you can refresh my memory that would be appreciated. I do remember the narrow-body WRX being hated/unpopular which led to them reintroducing the wider fenders with the 2011 model year, but IIRC the STi always had the wider body to begin with.

Agree on the ugly though, and Subaru didn't do themselves any favors but making the press color that bright orange. I'm all for more colors in a sea of gray/black/white on the roads but the orange only further emphasized the cladding...which maybe that's what they wanted to do? The car is still ugly but looks a lot better in WR Blue IMO.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by YungBoba

What happened in 2008? I don't recall so if you can refresh my memory that would be appreciated. I do remember the narrow-body WRX being hated/unpopular which led to them reintroducing the wider fenders with the 2011 model year, but IIRC the STi always had the wider body to begin with.

Agree on the ugly though, and Subaru didn't do themselves any favors but making the press color that bright orange. I'm all for more colors in a sea of gray/black/white on the roads but the orange only further emphasized the cladding...which maybe that's what they wanted to do? The car is still ugly but looks a lot better in WR Blue IMO.

People didn't like the more mature MY2008. MY2009 WRX got a different turbo, summer tires, new grille and grey rims. It was quicker 0-60 than the STI. It is the best WRX, in my opinion. (I had a 2008 )

[chanomatik]

@YungBoba 2008 was the WRX that wasn't well-received and was immediately upgraded for 2009. Same narrow body, but better performance.

Originally Posted by neg_matnik

Please re-read what I said. I never said the SPT was crap; I just said that there are better trannies out there. It's an opinion and it's an educated one.
Also, despite having said all of that, I would get a WRX Wagon Levorg with a HTCVT/SPT just because I highly value the wagon body style and I can compromise on the tranny to get that wagon body style.
Also, I'm not selling my '19 Golf R DSG no matter what; I'm looking for a second car to park next to the Golf .

This is what you said:

Now, the jury is still out on how well that in-house Hyundai DCT will hold up over time, but, for now, it's way more satisfying to drive/operate than any SPT/HTCVT out there.

You can assume the SPT is worse because it's not a DCT, but you can't actually know until you've tried it. I do agree that it's just marketing spin on the same HTCVT that Subaru has been using, but it is revised and not the exact same thing. Especially if you're comparing it to Hyundai's DCT, which I didn't catch whether or not you've driven.

I'm all for DCT or a nice ZF, but that's not what Subaru is utilizing, nor will they ever. They can't even get their in-house manual transmissions right.

If I were Subaru I would just dump the WRX. It's such a hassle and apparently they can't be bothered to have actual enthusiasts sign NDAs and offer input on whatever direction they're heading before they make final decisions. "Oh they NEVER like how the WRX looks" is an awful standard to be okay with.

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

@YungBoba 2008 was the WRX that wasn't well-received and was immediately upgraded for 2009. Same narrow body, but better performance.



This is what you said:


You can assume the SPT is worse because it's not a DCT, but you can't actually know until you've tried it. I do agree that it's just marketing spin on the same HTCVT that Subaru has been using, but it is revised and not the exact same thing. Especially if you're comparing it to Hyundai's DCT, which I didn't catch whether or not you've driven.

I'm all for DCT or a nice ZF, but that's not what Subaru is utilizing, nor will they ever. They can't even get their in-house manual transmissions right.

If I were Subaru I would just dump the WRX. It's such a hassle and apparently they can't be bothered to have actual enthusiasts sign NDAs and offer input on whatever direction they're heading before they make final decisions. "Oh they NEVER like how the WRX looks" is an awful standard to be okay with.

Subaru will never EVER use or develop a DCT. The profit margins using a CVT transmission are too high. The only shot, is if the GR86 uses a BMW DCT and somehow that gets carried over to the BRZ somehow. That itself is extremely unlikely to happen.

[Russ_G93]

I truly think the introduction of the Legacy Sport with the 2.4 turbo is aimed specifically at mitigating 22 WRX attention while also making money off the same performance parts, because it damn near starts at the same price as a Prem WRX, 33k offering same if not better mileage, and ride comfort classic of the platform. The Legacy never needed another trim in its line up. An 21/22 XT limited with leather, Nav, HK speakers, etc at 36k is a great price. Although the new front end on the 23 is hideous, and I have yet to figure what bozo thought those wheel molds would be "attractive." Todays intro announcement for it reminded me of the fact.
Or maybe it was all just part of the plan to begin with, either way, RIP to those that bought a 20/21 Sport, though they win in this petrol crisis

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

I truly think the introduction of the Legacy Sport with the 2.4 turbo is aimed specifically at mitigating 22 WRX attention while also making money off the same performance parts, because it damn near starts at the same price as a Prem WRX, 33k offering same if not better mileage, and ride comfort classic of the platform. The Legacy never needed another trim in its line up. An 21/22 XT limited with leather, Nav, HK speakers, etc at 36k is a great price. Although the new front end on the 23 is hideous, and I have yet to figure what bozo thought those wheel molds would be "attractive." Todays intro announcement for it reminded me of the fact.
Or maybe it was all just part of the plan to begin with, either way, RIP to those that bought a 20/21 Sport, though they win in this petrol crisis

There are a lot of folks that really really hate leather. This Sport is what it should have been from the get-go. And to clarify about "another trim", they are getting rid of the Limited XT; so, now, at least, there is a leather AND a cloth turbo now without "adding" an option. I have to agree on the wheels. Not my favorite. For me, they yo-yo their wheels. One generation I'm not a fan. The next, I like them. Seems we're getting to the not like them phase again.

[Russ_G93]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

There are a lot of folks that really really hate leather. This Sport is what it should have been from the get-go. And to clarify about "another trim", they are getting rid of the Limited XT; so, now, at least, there is a leather AND a cloth turbo now without "adding" an option. I have to agree on the wheels. Not my favorite. For me, they yo-yo their wheels. One generation I'm not a fan. The next, I like them. Seems we're getting to the not like them phase again.

Im one of those folks. My mother used to have this older volvo s60. I remember as a kid her perfume and the leather would mix and every road trip became a nausea-fest in the back seat. So, it sounds like no more Startex? or is that the "leather" theyre putting in? The 2015-17 wheels were a ding for sure, 18-21 were solid, now back to Ding-land as far as wheels. Im not sure why they opt for "hard to clean" spokes so often. Maybe to satisfy the spec tensile strength perhaps?

[Skunkers]

Originally Posted by YungBoba

What happened in 2008?

When they launched the 2008 WRX it was not very different from the base Impreza. Not much in the way of badging or exterior changes, the suspension was softer than the outgoing WRX, etc. It was also the first actual new model since the car was brought the the US (the blobeye/hawkeye were refreshes of the bugeye GD model), and the introduction of the WRX had kicked off a lot of competition that decade so expectations were really high for the new model. In addition to that, the engine was mostly a carryover save for the intake and intercooler with the same power; and people had definitely been anticipating a power bump in light of all the new competition.

The softer, blander WRX did not go over well and just like in the 22's case there was a big fan outcry over it, which resulted in the immediate refresh in 2009 bringing a firmer suspension/sway bars, sportier tires, more unique trim and badging pieces, the standardization of the previously higher trim aero package, new wheels, and a healthy bump in power to 265hp (which actually made the WRX quicker in a straight line than the STI on account still having the 5-speed and fewer shifts 0-60). They saw the negative response and hit the button, and delivered the upgrade they should have in 2008.

[YungBoba]

Thanks for the history lesson, folks. I wasn't as balls deep into the Subaru world back in 2008 so this was interesting to learn. The only thing I remembered at the time was the complaints about the narrow body.

In hindsight, the new 2022 does draw a lot of similarities with 2008. Will be interesting to see what new info we'll get tomorrow...

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

Im one of those folks. My mother used to have this older volvo s60. I remember as a kid her perfume and the leather would mix and every road trip became a nausea-fest in the back seat. So, it sounds like no more Startex? or is that the "leather" theyre putting in? The 2015-17 wheels were a ding for sure, 18-21 were solid, now back to Ding-land as far as wheels. Im not sure why they opt for "hard to clean" spokes so often. Maybe to satisfy the spec tensile strength perhaps?

Startex is a very durable covering that fits the outdoorsy(CUV) models a bit more than the sedans. I wouldn't mind it though. I actually like the feel of it even over the Nappa in the Tourings. The previous Legacy Sport wheels were the Levorg wheels. I was thinking that was a pre-tease to them bringing it over. Oh well, just a straight tease.

[4S-TURBO]

I remember the initial complaints of the WRX was the loss of the box fenders and tall hood scoop and the cheapening of the interior. Too Corolla like.

The main complaints though were aimed at the STI. Subaru responded by lowering the price and offering hop up parts like SPT exhaust, pink springs, and bracing at nearly free pricing. I never understood their rationale to give the WRX more power. People being mad the STI was a hatchback with no big wing had nothing to do with the power output of the WRX.

shrug

[timpala11]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

WRX demographic has been changing since the 2015 WRX with CVT. There's a bit of a joke amongst the community that you can't wave at 2015+ WRX you see on the road because the owners most likely won't wave back, especially if they're older or assumed to be a woman. But I've seen plenty of assumed to be men not wave either. Usually STI owners wave back since they're more of the typical demographic.

I got a wave back 95% of the time in the VA, regardless of gen.

In the GR, about 50% VAs wave and 95% of older gens. I saw one VB on the road and thought "hell I'll give him a wave" and the guy didn't wave back! I said out loud to myself "you don't even deserve that wave."

Originally Posted by rallly 4

Someone else mentioned ambassador $$. What I can tell you is that a lot of money was spent to make sure the WRX launch was positively covered by the press. The initial reaction to the reveal video was NOT expected by some people who make decisions in Camden. Keyword is some.

Based on how the new WRX was received by those the press initially covered it, especially on social media, the same thing should have happened. It didn’t.

Press coverage was in their pocket big time. I remember one of the jokes at the time was YouTube disabling the dislike count bc of how negative the comments were lol.