Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday March 19, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2005, 07:39 PM   #26
2phless
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69343
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: 'tween Lewisville&Clemmons NC
Vehicle:
1998 TransAm cnvrtbl
Black

Default

My part throttle gives part boost right now, which is nice. It used to climb steadily when in some mid-throttle position, kinda like creep, but different. I don't know if the GMBC fixed that or this combo setup. I did them within a couple of days.

But yeah, spool is quick. Lugging the motor still delivers a slow climb, which is related to the lack of PTFB situations, so I'll take it. Nailing it in 2nd or 3rd from about anywhere and it won't think twice before shoving me back in the seat. It's working well.

I set my low load sites on the boost map pretty high, then taper them back to reasonable numbers by the 60% column.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
2phless is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 01-25-2006, 09:19 AM   #27
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

pic of interior knob:

ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 09:32 AM   #28
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

^^^is that a hallman product (the flexible cable and knob) or did you put that together yourself?

Basically, I'm looking for details on the drive setup, as far as parts go.
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 09:32 AM   #29
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

duplicate pic posted...

Last edited by ride5000; 01-25-2006 at 09:51 AM.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 09:50 AM   #30
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8
^^^is that a hallman product (the flexible cable and knob) or did you put that together yourself?

Basically, I'm looking for details on the drive setup, as far as parts go.
rex, after looking long and hard for alternate ideas, i just went ahead and got the hallman evo rx.

expensive? yes.

work exactly as promised? yes.

i had thought about using a speedometer drive cable to provide torque to any old ball/spring mbc, but the issue with those is that they are not really designed to be twisted both ways. i did not want rotational compliance making me guess how much i had actually turned the screw in the mbc. then of course you have the issue of mounting it, etc.

i know that hallman does make a retrofit kit for their mbcs so that they can be remote-ized. you could probably get one of those if you really like your current mbc. if not, i can heartily recommend their mbc. the rx has the ceramic ball, and it makes the tightest internal seal i've seen yet on ball and springs. by comparison the joe-p was a tinkertoy.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 04:23 PM   #31
disque71
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57330
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:
2008 WRX

Default

I installed the mbc with my gm bcs as you show but its unresponsive. Tightening fully down or loosening all the way out does nothing. Any suggestions?
disque71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 06:14 PM   #32
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

check and make sure you don't have the wrong nipples connected on the gmbcs.

at rest, with the car off, you should be able to blow from one connected nipple to the other. the car energizes the solenoid to raise boost. this will stop the flow through the solenoid.

when troubleshooting you can also disconnect the BCS entirely to make sure that your MBC plumbing is proper.

finally make sure that when you're WOT, whatever is controlling your solenoid goes to 100***37; duty. if you're using an oem ecu to do that, you need 100% wgdc and a boost target that's higher than you'll actually clamp it to with the MBC.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:01 PM   #33
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

had another brainstorm come over me a couple of months ago ...

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthre...99#post1147599

dual wastegates (ie internal/external).

it'll basically look like this:



WHY you ask?

well... this way you can have your cake and eat it too:

1) retain control over relatively low boost situations by springing your IWG only hard enough to hold the max boost you desire. right now my iwg spring is around 12psi and it'll hold >27psi (tested! )...

2) the EWG only opens up when the MBC does. the MBC controls max boost only. put a spring in it sized a few psi less than the minimum boost you want to VTA. in my case i'd put a 1-1.5 bar spring in.

3) since the 3-port solenoid is controlled by some electronic means, you can map desired boost to TPS and RPM. basically if you want max boost and EWG operation you send 100% duty to the 3-port. anything less will mean the IWG is open and limiting boost to some lower value. no issues with PTFB and boost control is retained at lower levels due to the relatively light spring in the IWG.

4) car is only wicked noisy when the EWG is open. when it's not, all turboback exhaust is in normal operation... ie, cats, mufflers, etc. who cares if it is restrictive and quiet, since:

5) when the EWG opens, you get the big VE benefit of a VTA dump. and it'll be noisy too!

the astute may notice that, on my car, this basically entails adding the EWG up pipe and actuator, removing a tee, and rerouting one pneumatic boost control hose to the new EWG.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:09 PM   #34
LastResort
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 99289
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default

You'll make a number of people happy with this idea, as it's been asked a number of times. Really, I think it's quite a trick idea, giving you streetability of a cutout, plus additional performance. I suppose this would also address boost creep issues, as those only happen at WOT, correct?
LastResort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:15 PM   #35
theCRANKwalker
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 71551
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: yonkers, ny
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
black

Default

pretty crazy setup, any fall backs so far?
theCRANKwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:15 PM   #36
Master2192
RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83254
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy, Washington
Vehicle:
98 2.5 RS
04 WRX

Default

Correct.

Sounds like a very good idea Ride. I already use your hybrid setup (except with the stock BCS) and it works very well.
Master2192 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:15 PM   #37
theCRANKwalker
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 71551
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: yonkers, ny
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
black

Default

pretty crazy setup, any fall backs so far?
theCRANKwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:16 PM   #38
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastResort View Post
You'll make a number of people happy with this idea, as it's been asked a number of times. Really, I think it's quite a trick idea, giving you streetability of a cutout, plus additional performance.
yes.

quiet manners on the street, whenever you're not at max boost and the ewg is venting. very similar to the cutout-equipped car with a nice quiet axleback and a cat still in the pipe.

at wot you get BETTER VE gains than the cutout car since you are not only dumping to atmosphere, you're doing it from BEFORE the turbo hotside.

otoh, you would still give up SOME performance by having the turbine gasses pass through the "restrictive" turboback exhaust (that the cutout does not do), since the turbo shaft's energy is a function of mass flow rate and pressure differential across the turbine, and one would assume that there is some additional pressure seen at the turbine outlet. then again, all of the wastegate gasses are subtracted from that post turbo exhaust pipe, so that acts to reduce the pressure seen there. it's probably close to a toss-up.

Quote:
I suppose this would also address boost creep issues, as those only happen at WOT, correct?
the vta ewg def. takes care of that, whereas putting a cutout on a creeping car is going to make it worse.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:17 PM   #39
Master2192
RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83254
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy, Washington
Vehicle:
98 2.5 RS
04 WRX

Default

For even more fun, you could get a boost activated cut out in the downpipe and also have it setup with the EWG boost line off the MBC. Then it would be full dump to Atmosphere above that limit :-p
Master2192 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:19 PM   #40
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theCRANKwalker View Post
pretty crazy setup, any fall backs so far?
well, let's be clear--i haven't tried the EWG dual wastegate idea... YET.

the hybrid ebc/mbc has been in place since a few days before i started this thread, and i haven't touched it since.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:23 PM   #41
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

-snip-

Last edited by ride5000; 06-18-2007 at 12:30 PM. Reason: stupid server
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:29 PM   #42
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
For even more fun, you could get a boost activated cut out in the downpipe and also have it setup with the EWG boost line off the MBC. Then it would be full dump to Atmosphere above that limit :-p
yeah, i've looked at those cutouts (basically big wastegates) and i like them FAR better than the electrical/wormdrive/solenoid types.

there's a lot less to go wrong, there are no connectors to short out, and they don't get damaged from being stuck/jammed open or closed.

the idea of a whisper quiet car that goes ape-**** and scares women and children when you floor it appeals to me!

my wife already hates my car, so i figure what the hell. i just need to keep it quiet around the cops.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 12:58 PM   #43
bluescoobywagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14911
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: The land of E85
Vehicle:
Not A Wagon!
2011 WRX - 285s on 18x9.5

Default

Taking this one step further, if the internal wastegate is controlled by an interupt as per your diagram, couldn't you set the max duty at 100 with a target boost that was really high at 100% throttle? That should create the following scenario:

Target boost at 18psi and WGDC normal in 85% throttle column.
Target boost at 21 psi and WGDC at 100% in 86% throttle and up column.
MBC at 19psi.

Boost below 19 psi would be controlled by the internal wastegate only.
At above 85% throttle, the target boost will jump up and drive the WGDC to 100% closing the internal gate. Boost is now controlled by the external gate only.

I haven't tested this as I don't have an external gate yet, but the theory seems sound. You could set the crossover point for whatever boost and throttle % you want. Personally I would change the 100% throttle column to a value close to the crossover (like 86% above.) That way you would have a clear switchover point and then adjust it as needed for a smooth transition.
bluescoobywagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 01:02 PM   #44
Master2192
RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83254
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy, Washington
Vehicle:
98 2.5 RS
04 WRX

Default

haha, exactly. I thought of using a stock STI Cat-back to keep the car quiet, and have one of those cut outs in the downpipe set at something like 15 psi. But I never thought of doing a EWG Dump to Atmosphere along with the cutout.
Master2192 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 01:05 PM   #45
Master2192
RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83254
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy, Washington
Vehicle:
98 2.5 RS
04 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescoobywagon
Taking this one step further, if the internal wastegate is controlled by an interupt as per your diagram, couldn't you set the max duty at 100 with a target boost that was really high at 100% throttle? That should create the following scenario:

Target boost at 18psi and WGDC normal in 85% throttle column.
Target boost at 21 psi and WGDC at 100% in 86% throttle and up column.
MBC at 19psi.

Boost below 19 psi would be controlled by the internal wastegate only.
At above 85% throttle, the target boost will jump up and drive the WGDC to 100% closing the internal gate. Boost is now controlled by the external gate only.

I haven't tested this as I don't have an external gate yet, but the theory seems sound. You could set the crossover point for whatever boost and throttle % you want. Personally I would change the 100% throttle column to a value close to the crossover (like 86% above.) That way you would have a clear switchover point and then adjust it as needed for a smooth transition.
You just explained how this already works!
Master2192 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 01:17 PM   #46
bluescoobywagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14911
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: The land of E85
Vehicle:
Not A Wagon!
2011 WRX - 285s on 18x9.5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
You just explained how this already works!
Going back I see that now. I guess I didn't fully catch it the first time through. Although I don't see anything about fine control over the crossover point.
bluescoobywagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 07:17 PM   #47
sjs0433
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86061
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

very curious to see more about this. Not so much the ewg/iwg but the manual boost controller paired with a gm solenoid. I think having that slightly slow boost response is what I like least about my car. I know a manual boost controller would get me that quick spool but I like some of the safety features of the electronic boost control. Do you know of anyone that has set this up on an 04wrx? I know those didn't do so well with mbc's like the 02/03 wrx's did.
sjs0433 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 06:32 AM   #48
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

well if it is tuned, then there is no issue as to what year of car it is.

you'll need to have your EBC, whatever it is, adjusted to default to 100***37; duty cycle at WOT so that the MBC will be the only component "in circuit."
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 07:56 AM   #49
blkscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
2009 G8 GT
Cammed, sprayed, stalled

Default

the real reason that 04+ WRX "did not like" MBC is the closed loop/ open delay programming by Subaru. Once that is tuned away (very simple) then there is no difference between using Ken's MBC/ BCS hybrid method.
blkscooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 08:20 AM   #50
sjs0433
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86061
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

That's what I thought the reason was for the 04+ not liking the manual boost controller but I wasn't too sure.
has anyone used a mbc with an ewg before? Would it actually work as well or not? I'm really curious to read this over and get a fully understanding of how ken's mbc/ebc works b/c right now I'm still a little confused.
So does the vacuum source hit the mbc first or the gm solenoid first?
sjs0433 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What kind of boost control solenoid/boost controller is this? roninsoldier83 Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 3 10-01-2007 10:24 PM
If the pill is your primary method of birth control, learn from my mistake George71 Off-Topic 59 03-15-2005 12:00 PM
mbc/ebc and peak boost in lower gears? chrisfranklin Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 2 08-02-2004 09:29 PM
Joe P. MBC XZ Turbo Manual Boost Controller (ebay no reserve) lstepnio Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 0 03-22-2004 06:43 PM
Need Help: An analysis of boost control methods smiles Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 16 01-07-2002 03:12 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.