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Old 10-07-2018, 08:35 AM   #1
Tk421STI
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Default Michelin Pilot Sport A/s 3 Plus

Hey guys,

I'm considering a few options here and I was wondering if some guys ever ran All Seasons for winter? I typically run winter tires but if the A/S 3's can perform/deliver safely in upstate NY winter I may consider these for my 2019 STI with stock wheels.

Thanks
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:58 AM   #2
SoFlaRRRex
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I’m in NC where we only get a few, if any, snow days a year and considering these myself. There’s a couple review videos on YouTube and some good info at tire rack.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:04 AM   #3
gdzllawrx
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I just put on some Continental ExtremeContact DWS06. So far they are great. Price point is low for what you get. A lot of great reviews on the various tire sites. They might not be as responsive as the Michelin but for what you pay...
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:27 AM   #4
scoobydooluth
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How much snow and/or ice do you get up there in NY? I'm gonna say with pretty high confidence those aren't the right tires for you. Note the above reviews came from NC & SC...

UHP AS are the epitome of 3-season tires - they're really meant for those kinds of places way south of you, which get coldish and might see light snow or ice but will melt off pretty quickly, and you can just slow waaayyyy down & take a while to get where you're going (or work from home) because it only happens a couple times a year.

Upstate NY, assuming some lake effect snow, I think you're way better off with a dedicated set of winter tires.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:53 PM   #5
get_schwifty
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TL;DR: If you intend to drive in snow, I do not think they will provide you anywhere near the safety of a snow tire, especially with where you are at.



In Detail: IMHO, I think they are fine if you do not intend to drive in snow and are using them predominantly to get home pretty much as soon as the snow starts. For anything beyond that in terms of snow/ice driving, I personally consider the A/S 3+ closer to a 3-season+ tire. Its performance is very much oriented to dry/above-freezing wet, and here it does outstandingly well, far beyond what one would expect of an all-season...and it maintains spectacular traction even in bitter, sub-freezing dry cold, or near-freezing wet (so, if you ran these as your 'summer' tires, you could hypothetically put them on earlier in spring and run them later in the fall). However, in snow and ice, I considered it to be less of a performer than the DWS06, and almost laughable compared to anything performance-winter oriented. The limitation here is that most of my AS 3+ miles are with a RWD BRZ. And while the STI's AWD system will certainly help, based on my experience in the BRZ, I'm not comfortable using it for anything other than the limited snow usage described above, as in snow I feel a loss of traction event during an emergency maneuver is far more likely with it than with something more appropriate for the situation, and I feel the need for an emergency maneuver here is far more likely during those bad winter conditions, FWIW.

This test has limited value, but still shows the massive difference between one of the most well-regarded AS tires and the 'last place' winter tire. However, this is the older AS 3...the AS 3 Plus was supposedly designed for substantial improvements in snow. The other limitation is that the leader of the pack is the pure winter tire, the Nokian Hakka R2, rather than a performance winter tire (it has since been replaced with the R3.)

I'm in Maryland (not Western MD, which gets absolutely hammered to crap), and this time around I opted for the Nokian WR G4, which is a performance-oriented, all-weather, severe weather rated tire, functioning essentially as an intermediate between an all-season and a dedicated snow tire without the performance trade-offs of pure snow tires. The older WR G3 has carved out a solid reputation as a tire that can be used year round even in places where winters get pretty bad.

All that said, to my understanding, you often get pretty severe winters with where you are at, and some years you get absolutely insane ones. So, if I was personally in your situation and I expected to drive in the snow quite a bit, I would probably be more inclined to lean toward the Hakkapeliitta (or something in that class)...
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:05 PM   #6
BHOD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get_schwifty View Post
TL;DR: If you intend to drive in snow, I do not think they will provide you anywhere near the safety of a snow tire, especially with where you are at.



In Detail: IMHO, I think they are fine if you do not intend to drive in snow and are using them predominantly to get home pretty much as soon as the snow starts. For anything beyond that in terms of snow/ice driving, I personally consider the A/S 3+ closer to a 3-season+ tire. Its performance is very much oriented to dry/above-freezing wet, and here it does outstandingly well, far beyond what one would expect of an all-season...and it maintains spectacular traction even in bitter, sub-freezing dry cold, or near-freezing wet (so, if you ran these as your 'summer' tires, you could hypothetically put them on earlier in spring and run them later in the fall). However, in snow and ice, I considered it to be less of a performer than the DWS06, and almost laughable compared to anything performance-winter oriented. The limitation here is that most of my AS 3+ miles are with a RWD BRZ. And while the STI's AWD system will certainly help, based on my experience in the BRZ, I'm not comfortable using it for anything other than the limited snow usage described above, as in snow I feel a loss of traction event during an emergency maneuver is far more likely with it than with something more appropriate for the situation, and I feel the need for an emergency maneuver here is far more likely during those bad winter conditions, FWIW.

This test has limited value, but still shows the massive difference between one of the most well-regarded AS tires and the 'last place' winter tire. However, this is the older AS 3...the AS 3 Plus was supposedly designed for substantial improvements in snow. The other limitation is that the leader of the pack is the pure winter tire, the Nokian Hakka R2, rather than a performance winter tire (it has since been replaced with the R3.)

I'm in Maryland (not Western MD, which gets absolutely hammered to crap), and this time around I opted for the Nokian WR G4, which is a performance-oriented, all-weather, severe weather rated tire, functioning essentially as an intermediate between an all-season and a dedicated snow tire without the performance trade-offs of pure snow tires. The older WR G3 has carved out a solid reputation as a tire that can be used year round even in places where winters get pretty bad.

All that said, to my understanding, you often get pretty severe winters with where you are at, and some years you get absolutely insane ones. So, if I was personally in your situation and I expected to drive in the snow quite a bit, I would probably be more inclined to lean toward the Hakkapeliitta (or something in that class)...
I'm a Nokian fan
Next will be R3.

But in his situation, OP could consider the Michelin Xi3 if deep snow is rare.
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Old 10-16-2018, 01:47 AM   #7
Sideways
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I had the AS3+ on my 2016 and they were great.

I had no problem getting around in 4-6 inches of snow. I plan on getting another set for my 2019 WRX.
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:41 PM   #8
get_schwifty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHOD View Post
I'm a Nokian fan
Next will be R3.

But in his situation, OP could consider the Michelin Xi3 if deep snow is rare.
Beyond being the tour-de-force of extreme weather tires, I almost purchased the Hakkapeliittas purely on the basis of the fact that I like saying the word, which most people immediately interpret as multiple words. I picture myself rolling up at the club and someone saying "get out the way - this man has Hakkapeliittas" (which everyone would instantly interpret as some sort of an infectious disease.)

I assume in Québec it's a name most people recognize. Here in central Maryland where not a lot of people run snow tires (we're kind of borderline between needing one and getting by with an AS), virtually no one has heard of them. But if you drive a few hours westward out to Western MD on the other side of the mountains, they're quite common given it's not unusual for some areas in Western MD to get 5 times the annual snowfall we do, and it's almost unreal how quickly hazardous driving conditions can arise.

That said, the Hakkas were a little overkill for my area so the Nokian WR fit the bill - I'm reasonably confident now that I have an optimal winter tire that it won't snow one lick this winter. However, saying "WR" doesn't have the same effect of saying "Hakkapeliitta," which makes me sad.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:01 PM   #9
BHOD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get_schwifty View Post
Beyond being the tour-de-force of extreme weather tires, I almost purchased the Hakkapeliittas purely on the basis of the fact that I like saying the word, which most people immediately interpret as multiple words. I picture myself rolling up at the club and someone saying "get out the way - this man has Hakkapeliittas" (which everyone would instantly interpret as some sort of an infectious disease.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by get_schwifty View Post
I assume in Québec it's a name most people recognize.
Not "most" for sure.
People getting year after year used with the name "Nokian".
So "Hakkapeliittas" name is still a bit unknown, but not sound so weird for people because sometimes, somewhere they saw/heard it on pub.

The fun I had with these tires was amazing with my former 2.5RS.
Each time there was a snow storm, that was party time, with my "tractor"



Quote:
Originally Posted by get_schwifty View Post
Here in central Maryland where not a lot of people run snow tires (we're kind of borderline between needing one and getting by with an AS), virtually no one has heard of them. But if you drive a few hours westward out to Western MD on the other side of the mountains, they're quite common given it's not unusual for some areas in Western MD to get 5 times the annual snowfall we do, and it's almost unreal how quickly hazardous driving conditions can arise.
Yeah, in Québec we really get more snow than Montréal, for example.


Quote:
Originally Posted by get_schwifty View Post
That said, the Hakkas were a little overkill for my area so the Nokian WR fit the bill - I'm reasonably confident now that I have an optimal winter tire that it won't snow one lick this winter. However, saying "WR" doesn't have the same effect of saying "Hakkapeliitta," which makes me sad.
I think you made a great choice


The Michelin Xi3 would be more (and only) winter oriented. More ice than snow.
I suggested it because it's a really good winter tire on highway, quiet and solid.
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:54 PM   #10
Coleman84
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I have a set and I run them year round in ohio they are fantastic in light snow. I plan on getting winter tires though this year to see the difference.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:07 PM   #11
shagfagon
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Forget about the snow. Why would you want to run these in the summer? Way worse performance than a good summer only tire.

What's the point of buying a 40k performance car to put it on tires that are mediocre in all conditions?
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:44 PM   #12
Coleman84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shagfagon View Post
Forget about the snow. Why would you want to run these in the summer? Way worse performance than a good summer only tire.

What's the point of buying a 40k performance car to put it on tires that are mediocre in all conditions?
I wouldn't call these mediocre tires. I run my car as a highway DD. These tires stick pretty well in turns and are great in rain. I had zero issues with them in the winter. I have put 25,000 miles on them and have had them rotated many times and the tread is still pretty full. I drive around 25-30 thousand miles a year.
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:23 PM   #13
shagfagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman84 View Post
I wouldn't call these mediocre tires. I run my car as a highway DD. These tires stick pretty well in turns and are great in rain. I had zero issues with them in the winter. I have put 25,000 miles on them and have had them rotated many times and the tread is still pretty full. I drive around 25-30 thousand miles a year.
When compared to a summer tire in the summer, and a winter tire in the winter, they are mediocre.

Just like there isn't any compromiseable all season footwear, there is no tire good in all conditions.

A/S on your daily impreza or forester, sure I stand behind it.

But why would you want to run anything else than a high performance summer tire on a brand new STI. Why buy the STI if you're just going to handicap it with an all season? What's the point?

EDIT: I'm making the point be cause according to his user profile, the OP has a 2019 STI which ships on 240TW Yokohamas. Its akin to buying a brand new STI and swapping the turbo out with a smaller one. You are downgrading.

Last edited by shagfagon; 10-17-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:00 PM   #14
Chas2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shagfagon View Post
When compared to a summer tire in the summer, and a winter tire in the winter, they are mediocre.

Just like there isn't any compromiseable all season footwear, there is no tire good in all conditions.

A/S on your daily impreza or forester, sure I stand behind it.

But why would you want to run anything else than a high performance summer tire on a brand new STI. Why buy the STI if you're just going to handicap it with an all season? What's the point?

EDIT: I'm making the point be cause according to his user profile, the OP has a 2019 STI which ships on 240TW Yokohamas. Its akin to buying a brand new STI and swapping the turbo out with a smaller one. You are downgrading.
I have to agree with this. I have a WRX, and this is the first car I have had in twenty years with summer tires on. Living here in VA, and doing serious suspension damage on summer tires in the snow (not knowing any better), I have been buying UHP AS forever, and thought they were pretty good, even in the summer. These WRX Dunlop 245/40-18s summer tires have shown me just how much I have been missing.

Of course, just my opinion
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Old 10-17-2018, 09:15 PM   #15
get_schwifty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHOD View Post

The fun I had with these tires was amazing with my former 2.5RS.
Each time there was a snow storm, that was party time, with my "tractor"
Did you find yourself intentionally going out when it snowed? If I had Hakkas on an AWD Subaru, I feel like I would want to go out in bad snowstorms solely for the purpose of driving around. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I could see myself getting in trouble at work for turning the giant parking lot into my own little snowcross...
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:21 PM   #16
get_schwifty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shagfagon View Post
Forget about the snow. Why would you want to run these in the summer? Way worse performance than a good summer only tire.

What's the point of buying a 40k performance car to put it on tires that are mediocre in all conditions?
I could understand why someone might want these for convenience or if they want a performance tire they can run later into the season given it maintains traction at temps much lower than summer tires, but I agree that there are still trade offs. While the A/S 3+ has notably improved dry performance compared to other UHP all-season tires, in warmer weather, someone should arguably not expect comparable dry or wet performance to the max performance summer OEM.
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:11 PM   #17
BHOD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get_schwifty View Post
Did you find yourself intentionally going out when it snowed?
For sure.
Even the wife came the first years (2001-2002)
After a while (2-3 years) she and then she and




I don't hate winter since I have a Subaru, hehe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by get_schwifty View Post
If I had Hakkas on an AWD Subaru, I feel like I would want to go out in bad snowstorms solely for the purpose of driving around. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I could see myself getting in trouble at work for turning the giant parking lot into my own little snowcross...
In the same period (2001-2002), there was "subaru meetings" in the big parking lot of a big shopping center. I didn't go there (except one time) because folks where absolutely crazy being at 70-80, 90 kph, many in sideways drift, in a total disorder.
Think about many butterflies around a light at night

Then the next year, police began to do patrol in the shopping center parking lot each storm night

Now, at 48, I'm less in the mood of that things... going out (with no real reason) if it snows...
but I never hesitate to hold traction/VDC button 5 seconds if I'm already there
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:05 AM   #18
Kaykay
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Another thing to consider is how cold it gets where you live. When I still had my Impreza, I had all season tires on it when I bought it. They were fine when temps were around freezing with snow on the ground. But a snow/ice covered road when it's 30 below? Forget it, might as well put hockey pucks on your axles. If you live anywhere that has a "true" winter season, there is no replacement for a proper set of winter tires and something else for summer.
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