Toyota to revive Supra nameplate?

[Fierysun]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

And again, maybe you should google search 2019 least reliable car brands. They’re not in the top 5 most reliable but neither is Subaru. VW reliability was only dinged because of the Atlas and Tiguan, both of which are relatively new. Their cars, are actually damn reliable for the most part.

It’s not 2000-2010 anymore

The X1 and X2 are complete dog**** however and people can’t wait to get rid of them / out of the lease. Then again, it’s a bottom of the barrel bmw.

BMW's reliability issues didn't stop after 2010, you need to look further back than the year (2019) they are being sold for data. Also, the issues usually starts showing up near or not too long after the tail end of the manufacture (I and many of my friends have personal experience with this) warranty and goes down hill from there.

With that being said and this thread is about the new Supra. When you compare the reliability difference between Toyota/Lexus and BMW, there's no comparison. Toyota/Lexus just keeps running and stays together for hundreds of thousands of miles with minimum amount of repairs, which is the opposite of BMW. The more you drive the BMW's the more random things fail. In addition, the previous Supra engine is legendary and it was made in the 90's. If you wanted a true bullet proof motor today and make power in the 1000's, the 2JZ is on the top of the list. What's the point of buying the new Supra when the old one is better in every way and made by a company that knows how to engineer long lasting performance cars? Which can't be said about BMW's. That's why there's so much hate for the BMW/Supra.

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[4S-TURBO]

YouTube

YouTube

This guy seems to think the B58 is worth it.

[Straight6]

Originally Posted by Fierysun

BMW's reliability issues didn't stop after 2010, you need to look further back than the year (2019) they are being sold for data. Also, the issues usually starts showing up near or not too long after the tail end of the manufacture (I and many of my friends have personal experience with this) warranty and goes down hill from there.

With that being said and this thread is about the new Supra. When you compare the reliability difference between Toyota/Lexus and BMW, there's no comparison. Toyota/Lexus just keeps running and stays together for hundreds of thousands of miles with minimum amount of repairs, which is the opposite of BMW. The more you drive the BMW's the more random things fail. In addition, the previous Supra engine is legendary and it was made in the 90's. If you wanted a true bullet proof motor today and make power in the 1000's, the 2JZ is on the top of the list. What's the point of buying the new Supra when the old one is better in every way and made by a company that knows how to engineer long lasting performance cars? Which can't be said about BMW's. That's why there's so much hate for the BMW/Supra.

This.

[heavyD]

Originally Posted by Fierysun

BMW's reliability issues didn't stop after 2010, you need to look further back than the year (2019) they are being sold for data. Also, the issues usually starts showing up near or not too long after the tail end of the manufacture (I and many of my friends have personal experience with this) warranty and goes down hill from there.

With that being said and this thread is about the new Supra. When you compare the reliability difference between Toyota/Lexus and BMW, there's no comparison. Toyota/Lexus just keeps running and stays together for hundreds of thousands of miles with minimum amount of repairs, which is the opposite of BMW. The more you drive the BMW's the more random things fail. In addition, the previous Supra engine is legendary and it was made in the 90's. If you wanted a true bullet proof motor today and make power in the 1000's, the 2JZ is on the top of the list. What's the point of buying the new Supra when the old one is better in every way and made by a company that knows how to engineer long lasting performance cars? Which can't be said about BMW's. That's why there's so much hate for the BMW/Supra.

Except the old one wasn't. The performance stock isn't even remotely close. The disparity between the performance of a stock A80 and the new car is Grand Canyon sized. It's nice to have the capability but really many people actually tune their cars to 1000 hp? IMO the A80 has become one of the more overrated cars over time. Yes the engine was great but the car was big and wasn't exactly nimble compared to FD RX7 that could run circles around it on a windy track.

[WRXnick16]

Originally Posted by heavyD

Yes the engine was great but the car was big and wasn't exactly nimble compared to FD RX7 that could run circles around it on a windy track.

This is very true and often seems overlooked in the old reviews of the A80 Supra. I've owned a couple of FD RX-7's and have driven my friend's A80 Supra numerous times. My FD was much smaller and nearly 700 lbs lighter than the Supra.

The new Supra is much closer in size to the FD, namely in length and wheelbase. I haven't driven a new Supra yet, but given its size, wheelbase and reviews that I've seen.. I imagine it's much more nimble than the A80. That's not to say that I agree with it only having an auto trans.. or the fact that Toyota's legendary, halo sports car is mostly a BMW.

A manual S58 Supra on the other hand...

[Fierysun]

Originally Posted by heavyD

Except the old one wasn't. The performance stock isn't even remotely close. The disparity between the performance of a stock A80 and the new car is Grand Canyon sized. It's nice to have the capability but really many people actually tune their cars to 1000 hp? IMO the A80 has become one of the more overrated cars over time. Yes the engine was great but the car was big and wasn't exactly nimble compared to FD RX7 that could run circles around it on a windy track.

The point is Toyota's reliability over BMW's.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by Fierysun

The point is Toyota's reliability over BMW's.

Your lack of knowledge on turbo bmw motors is outstanding.

[WRXnick16]

^ You should pop over to the S209 thread and read that last few pages in your spare time.. you'll get a good laugh.. or more likely, a headache.

After failing to prove that the S209 was faster than the M2C (stock vs stock), they claimed a S209 is cheaper to modify and make faster..

Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI

$9,400 to tune the M2 in stages to get to 120 more horsepower over stock....ya....you must "know better". I'll stick with the STI thanks for the epiphany though LOL. You do realize anyone can look up what these dyno tuners are charging for tuning and wrenching the new M2 right???

The ADVANTAGE the EJ has now that it has basically infinite aftermarket parts availability. Again a $500 downpipe and tune is going to put the S209 into the 3 second zero to 60 range... for under $1000 the S209 will be putting out close to if not more than 400 horsepower with a 3" downpipe and ECU reflash to take advantage of the larger turbo, larger fuel injectors and higher capacity fuel pump....this thing is going to respond INSANELY well to a tune with those upgraded engine parts.

That was in response to me saying that the M2C with downpipes & an E85 tune can reach 500+ whp.

Originally Posted by WRXnick16

.. a M2C with just downpipes & E85 tune (stock injectors, stock turbo, etc.) easily makes 500-550+ whp..

$595 for the Bootmod3 tuning platform + free OTS maps..
https://www.jordan-tuned.com/shop/pr...d3-bm3-license

$599 for custom tune
https://www.jordan-tuned.com/shop/bmw-s55-custom-tuning

Downpipes range from $500-1,500 depending on catted/catless and the brand.

When that failed, they went on to argue how the S209's interior quality is as good as/better than BMW's
Then that turned into "BMWs have interior rattle problems too" as a defense..

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by WRXnick16

^ You should pop over to the S209 thread and read that last few pages in your spare time.. you'll get a good laugh.. or more likely, a headache.

After failing to prove that the S209 was faster than the M2C (stock vs stock), they claimed a S209 is cheaper to modify and make faster..



That was in response to me saying that the M2C with downpipes & an E85 tune can reach 500+ whp.



When that failed, they went on to argue how the S209's interior quality is as good as/better than BMW's
Then that turned into "BMWs have interior rattle problems too" as a defense..

Holy Christ, the stupidity spewing is hilariously overwhelming. $9,400 in upgrades on an M2C gets you a pure performance stage 2 with meth, a tune making over 750whp.

Hell, a dude on stock turbo using direct port meth, front mount, charge pipe, intake, downpipes and a tune made like 600whp.

Look, I can gladly accept that a Tesla Model 3 performance crushes an M2C in performance metrics despite me hating that car. People who can’t accept an M2C our performs a 4 banger hoped up and over priced grocery getter is just a delusional fanboi with a typical “I can’t accept I’m wrong” or “something is better than what I like” mentality.

Ignorance is bliss I guess, until people realize you’re just an ignorant idiot.

[Brahmzy]

That thread is out of control, or rather, it’s primary “contributor” is. Delusional on a good day.
Ugh. No logic or reason.

[Brahmzy]

Originally Posted by WRXnick16

A manual S58 Supra on the other hand...

See the G series M2C in a few years...
If they don’t completely wreck the front end it is shaping up to be amazing.
Really, really hope they keep the next M2 as pure as possible.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

Your lack of knowledge on turbo bmw motors is outstanding.

He is an "EJ IS BEST THING EVAR!" guy, so best of luck with all that.

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by Pre

He is an "EJ IS BEST THING EVAR!" guy, so best of luck with all that.

If EJ isn't the best thing ever then why has it been around for 30 years, huh?! HUH?!

#EJ4Ever

[quentinberg007]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

If EJ isn't the best thing ever then why has it been around for 30 years, huh?! HUH?!

#EJ4Ever

I’m still laughing too hard at the idea of a $65k Impreza to wade into that mess.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by chanomatik

If EJ isn't the best thing ever then why has it been around for 30 years, huh?! HUH?!

#EJ4Ever

sycophants........dude.

#reality

[Ultimateone]

This thread is such a mess

[Masterauto]

The New Supra is not selling well at all. expect discounts now as many also languishing on Ebay. Supra GR Launch editions at no extra markup.

[White out]

Originally Posted by quentinberg007

I’m still laughing too hard at the idea of a $65k Impreza to wade into that mess.

This.

[godfather2112]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

See the G series M2C in a few years...
If they don’t completely wreck the front end it is shaping up to be amazing.
Really, really hope they keep the next M2 as pure as possible.

I really hope the M2 doesn't bloat and become some overweight car. I've heard the S55 somewhat ruined the balance of the car and its now nose heavy compared to the n55. I still want to test drive one to see if I can see the difference.

I'd be okay if they made the front fenders just a tiny bit wider but thats about it.

Originally Posted by Masterauto

The New Supra is not selling well at all. expect discounts now as many also languishing on Ebay. Supra GR Launch editions at no extra markup.

In my opinion, which very well could be wrong, I think the Supra sales are under performing / not meeting the anticipated hype for a few reasons.

1: When the FT1 concept was shown, everyone was drooling over the design. It was a gorgeous car and definitely deserved the Supra tag. The Supra we got is disappointing in the looks department and it really seems like its a hard top z4 (it is for the most part).

2: Corvette release may have had some impact on sales (hard to obtain data unless they asked corvette buyers if they were debating supra before hand)

3: Cost. You're damn close to M2C dollars and get substantially more vehicle.

4: No manual??? Again, not sure if this would have really made a big difference in overall sales volume but it likely would have helped to some degree.


As it is now, I think the car should be a $45k, maybe $50k loaded with launch edition or whatever.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by Ultimateone

This thread is such a mess

I shoulda let dead geese lie.

[Fierysun]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

Your lack of knowledge on turbo bmw motors is outstanding.

Reading comprehension evades you.

[godfather2112]

Can confirm that the Supra sales are grossly underperforming. Last weekend I was visiting the GF in Santa Monica and went on a double date with her roommate who is dating the west coast something rather for Toyota. Apparently Santa Monica was allocated 4 Supra’s, they have sold 1 and the rest of the west coast is having difficulty moving them at MSRP.

According to him, the complaints by those who tear drove or originally had deposits are similar to what I posted and others, it lacks soul or anything that makes it special. Supposedly people are opting to pay the $7k-$10k premium and buying the M2C, deposits on C8 or just doing nothing.

I want to see Z4 sales versus the Supra. Would be entertaining.

[quentinberg007]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

Can confirm that the Supra sales are grossly underperforming. Last weekend I was visiting the GF in Santa Monica and went on a double date with her roommate who is dating the west coast something rather for Toyota. Apparently Santa Monica was allocated 4 Supra’s, they have sold 1 and the rest of the west coast is having difficulty moving them at MSRP.

According to him, the complaints by those who tear drove or originally had deposits are similar to what I posted and others, it lacks soul or anything that makes it special. Supposedly people are opting to pay the $7k-$10k premium and buying the M2C, deposits on C8 or just doing nothing.

I want to see Z4 sales versus the Supra. Would be entertaining.

The entire 2 series line (coupe, vert, M2C) is only outselling the Supra by 50%. The Supra outsold the Z4 1:2 each of the months the Supra has been on sale.

[Kostamojen]

So the BRZ/86 is selling about as much as the Supra, but has been out for 8 model years... Ya thats not a good number for Supra sales.

[subyski]

Since the Supra hit dealers this last Summer, I wonder if those Q3 numbers are on the low side. Let's see what Q2 2020 brings since that'll be prime time for people wanting a sports car. Winter is a hard sell for a sports car.