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Old 12-03-2019, 01:28 PM   #1876
Masterauto
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how long will you wait in line ? Holidays or power outages rethink single source fueling
https://twitter.com/WappyGilmore/sta...162949122?s=20
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:31 PM   #1877
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
But there is the bigger problem. The cost of vehicles continue to rise at a rapid rate, hence the massively long loan terms now. There's no sign of any of this changing.

There is a difference in how EV's are price structured. The lower prices models/trims yield lower range. There's a premium for longer range. This is different from ICE (non hybrid) cars as lower prices models usually yields higher mpg. Then you pay the premium for more power ( and lower mpg).

So while EV's are gaining range over time. Price is not getting cheaper or you pay that premium for that range.
Correct. But if EV follows the trend of typical technology, price drops significantly over time when volume increases and technology cost less to manufacture. Sure, youíll always pay extra for more range but cost should theoretically come down across the board for the technology.

Or

As technology costs less, autos keep their prices relatively the same and recognize massive margin increases which blow out wall street expectations.
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Old 12-03-2019, 01:51 PM   #1878
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Correct. But if EV follows the trend of typical technology, price drops significantly over time when volume increases and technology cost less to manufacture. Sure, youíll always pay extra for more range but cost should theoretically come down across the board for the technology.

Or

As technology costs less, autos keep their prices relatively the same and recognize massive margin increases which blow out wall street expectations.
True, but automotive industry does not follow that (generally). In the beginning it did (i.e. Henry Ford era) but since the price of a car has steadily increased because of new technologies, features, and safety. So battery prices may continue to drop but money is invested in the next thing (i.e. solid state batteries, faster charging times, more safety features, convenience features, autonomous driving, etc.).

Smartphones are a great example, they are still expensive. While capabilities are ever increasing, prices remain high because people want more features, integration, etc.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:15 PM   #1879
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Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
how long will you wait in line ? Holidays or power outages rethink single source fueling
https://twitter.com/WappyGilmore/sta...162949122?s=20
But why are they all sitting there with their lights on? They're probably also playing video games on their in-dash tablet too. And re-charging their cell phone so they can keep tweeting about the long line.

gasoline shortages happen too.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:22 PM   #1880
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
But why are they all sitting there with their lights on? They're probably also playing video games on their in-dash tablet too. And re-charging their cell phone so they can keep tweeting about the long line.

gasoline shortages happen too.
Get a diesel as they make sure always diesel fuel for trucks are necessary. Most highways stops have generators too to keep pumping in outages . The 5-600 mile ranges nice too
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:01 PM   #1881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
But why are they all sitting there with their lights on? They're probably also playing video games on their in-dash tablet too. And re-charging their cell phone so they can keep tweeting about the long line.

gasoline shortages happen too.
this is true, we had that one in the 70's. But since then the US i the largest producer of gas in the entire world. Soooo, not likely. Now we have third world states like California who do not know how to provide electrical power for their own people. That is embarrassing.
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Old 12-03-2019, 03:35 PM   #1882
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
True, but automotive industry does not follow that (generally). In the beginning it did (i.e. Henry Ford era) but since the price of a car has steadily increased because of new technologies, features, and safety. So battery prices may continue to drop but money is invested in the next thing (i.e. solid state batteries, faster charging times, more safety features, convenience features, autonomous driving, etc.).

Smartphones are a great example, they are still expensive. While capabilities are ever increasing, prices remain high because people want more features, integration, etc.
A recession can help with a lot of this. Also, a lot of prices rise, especially in tech to increase margin percentage while actual cost stays relatively similar. EVís are still rather expensive but definitely need to come down somehow.

Or they start offering 10 year auto loans (likely to happen) and trapping poor fools in a vicious life of debt because they gotta have it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
Get a diesel as they make sure always diesel fuel for trucks are necessary. Most highways stops have generators too to keep pumping in outages . The 5-600 mile ranges nice too
Uh, yeah. Totally not a logical argument there. Diesel offerings are few compared to gas and fuel is typically more expensive than your low and mid grade fuel thus costing more to fill than the gas counterpart.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:20 PM   #1883
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
this is true, we had that one in the 70's. But since then the US i the largest producer of gas in the entire world. Soooo, not likely. Now we have third world states like California who do not know how to provide electrical power for their own people. That is embarrassing.
Maybe it's like a store closing: they flick the lights on/off a few times to get people moving out the door.

People better leave California before they shut the doors.
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:14 PM   #1884
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
this is true, we had that one in the 70's. But since then the US i the largest producer of gas in the entire world. Soooo, not likely. Now we have third world states like California who do not know how to provide electrical power for their own people. That is embarrassing.
Local gas shortages happen all the time, due to local refinery issues, pipeline issues, storms, etc. I have personally sat in line, and know multiple relatives who were unable to get gas to get themselves out of harms way of a hurricane in Florida.

Not going to touch the unrelated ignorance in the second part of your post.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:29 AM   #1885
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Tesla Model X is named Ďstand-out performerí in new safety crash tests

ďThe stand-out performer of this round is undoubtedly Teslaís Model X, scoring 94 percent for Safety Assist, the same as the Model 3 scored early this year. This makes the two Teslas the best performers in this part of the assessment against Euro NCAPís most recent protocols. The recently-updated Model X also achieved an impressive 98 percent for adult occupant protection, making it strong contender for Best in Class this year.Ē
https://electrek.co/2019/12/04/tesla...ty-crash-test/


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Old 12-04-2019, 11:31 AM   #1886
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None really know but if Apple goes after Tesla could be great investment now. Elon is known to want to concentrate on rockets anyway.
https://www.valuewalk.com/2018/12/sa...dictions-2019/
10 wild predictions

EU announces a debt jubilee
Prime Minister Corbyn sends GBPUSD to parity
Trump tells Powell “you’re fired”
Germany enters recession
Apple “secures funding” for Tesla at $520/share
Corporate credit crunch pushes Netflix into GE’s vortex
IMF and World Bank announce intent to stop measuring GDP, focus instead on productivity
Global Transportation Tax (GTT) enacted as climate panic spreads
X-Class solar flare creates chaos and inflicts $2 trillion of damage
Australia launches “TARP Down Under” after nationalising the big four banks

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Old 12-09-2019, 08:16 PM   #1887
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So I have this crazy question There was a time when my dad had two gas tanks. Always thought it was fairly easy for my dad to fill up both tanks at the same time. He could simply grab a hose from either pump. (Disclaimer: My dad never did this...)

With that being said, why not have dual batteries with separate charge ports. Could you theoretically double the charge time. So instead of one 80KWH battery with one port you could have two sperate 40 KWH batteries with dedicated charge ports.


Second Question:

I wonder how a Tesla would handle an exodus of a region. Think along the lines of how Houston Texas had to evacuate do to a treacherous storm. Personally, it was the craziest thing that me and my wife ever experienced. The bumper to bumper traffic was insane and people were freaking out left and right.



BlitZ

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Old 12-09-2019, 08:55 PM   #1888
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I lived in Houston many moon ago when I had land I worked in eagle lake. Houston is entirely overpopulated in a region that’s prone to horrible flooding anytime it sprinkles rain and you gots nasty hurricanes for extra fun too. When that many people decide to leave at once when tragedy/panic hits your screwed. No matter if you have ev or icv you are in bumper to bumper traffic. But extra gas or batteries could allow you to be more comfortable as your stuck going 0mph...I would love some pappadeaux about now too.
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:40 PM   #1889
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Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
So I have this crazy question There was a time when my dad had two gas tanks. Always thought it was fairly easy for my dad to fill up both tanks at the same time. He could simply grab a hose from either pump. (Disclaimer: My dad never did this...)

With that being said, why not have dual batteries with separate charge ports. Could you theoretically double the charge time. So instead of one 80KWH battery with one port you could have two sperate 40 KWH batteries with dedicated charge ports.


Second Question:

I wonder how a Tesla would handle an exodus of a region. Think along the lines of how Houston Texas had to evacuate do to a treacherous storm. Personally, it was the craziest thing that me and my wife ever experienced. The bumper to bumper traffic was insane and people were freaking out left and right.



BlitZ
Didnít they solve the 2 gas tank problem by making gas tanks larger? Or, did your dad add on an extra gas tank / cell?
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:45 PM   #1890
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Didnít they solve the 2 gas tank problem by making gas tanks larger? Or, did your dad add on an extra gas tank / cell?
It could be like my set up. 32 Gallon standard, and 25 Gallon reserve.

That gives me 600+ miles towing.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:05 PM   #1891
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Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
So instead of one 80KWH battery with one port you could have two sperate 40 KWH batteries with dedicated charge ports.

Because charging rate is proportional to pack capacity (since C rate is scaled by definition relative to capacity). You could charge two smaller packs at the same C rate as the larger... and achieve the exact same overall power.
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Old Yesterday, 06:19 AM   #1892
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It could be like my set up. 32 Gallon standard, and 25 Gallon reserve.

That gives me 600+ miles towing.
Maybe I donít fully understand but how is having 2 separate tanks equaling 57 gallons any different or better than if you had 1 single 57 gallon tank?
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Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM   #1893
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Maybe I donít fully understand but how is having 2 separate tanks equaling 57 gallons any different or better than if you had 1 single 57 gallon tank?
The 25 is aftermarket.
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 AM   #1894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
So I have this crazy question There was a time when my dad had two gas tanks. Always thought it was fairly easy for my dad to fill up both tanks at the same time. He could simply grab a hose from either pump. (Disclaimer: My dad never did this...)

With that being said, why not have dual batteries with separate charge ports. Could you theoretically double the charge time. So instead of one 80KWH battery with one port you could have two sperate 40 KWH batteries with dedicated charge ports.

<snip>
BlitZ
There were photos circulating of the Tesla semi doing exactly that: charging from two Supercharger stations, though I don't know if they were both feeding one battery or two.
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Old Today, 02:05 PM   #1895
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OFFICIAL: Porsche Taycan Turbo Range Pales Against Tesla Model S
The Taycan Turbo has sporty performance, but far less rangeóis it a worthwhile trade-off?


2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo S front in motion 32020 Porsche Taycan Turbo S front in motion 3
filterSEE ALL 69 PHOTOS
Alex LeanseWordsDec 11, 2019
The 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo has received its official EPA range rating, and there's no way of putting it lightly: It pales in comparison to rivals from Tesla.

On the EPA's test cycle, Taycan Turbo range is rated at 201 miles, with an MPGe rating of 69 MPGe combined. The EPA says it'll cost $1.58 to drive 25 miles in the Taycan Turbo, with an estimated annual charging cost of $950 for 15,000 miles at a split of 45 percent highway and 55 percent city driving. While the EPA did not specify wheel size, we assume these figures are based on the vehicle's stock 20-inch rollers.

What is MPGe? Learn about miles per gallon of gasoline-equivalent here.


2019 Tesla Model S range road trip front side view sunspot2019 Tesla Model S range road trip front side view sunspot
filterSEE ALL 69 PHOTOS
Comparing the electric Porsche's range to that of its Californian competitors is a bit of a shock. When shod with 21-inch wheels, 2020 Tesla Model S Performance range is EPA-rated at 326 miles, with a combined 97 MPGe rating. That results in a 25 mile driving cost of $1.17, and an estimated annual charging cost of $700.


SPONSORED CONTENT
Focus on Your Commute
By State Farm
Greater rolling efficiency is achieved with the Tesla Model S Performance's 19-inch wheels, resulting in an EPA range rating of 348 miles, and 104 MPGe. Costs subsequently drop to $1.05 to drive 25 miles, and $650 annually.


We found Tesla Model S range to actually exceed its EPA rating.


Tesla Model 3 Performance Track Mode rear sideTesla Model 3 Performance Track Mode rear side
filterSEE ALL 69 PHOTOS
The 2020 Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor Performance on 20-inch wheels gets a 299-mile range rating and 113 MPGe combined rating. Estimated charging costs are just $0.97 for 25 miles, and $600 annually.

Note that the EPA has rated only the Taycan Turbo, not the more powerful Taycan Turbo S or more affordable Taycan 4S.

Why the difference? After all, the Taycan Turbo's 93 kilowatt-hour battery pack is about the same size as comparable Teslas. It's not exactly clear, but Porsche is unperturbed. Reached for comment, a Porsche representative told MotorTrend, "We're very happy with the performance of the car. Our customers will experience the performance and range necessary for everyday usability. The Taycan Turbo is a sports car. Range was never the primary objective. "

Asked if the company had done any third-party evaluation, the representative confirmed that Porsche hired AMCI Testing to conduct its city and highway commute cycle. Averaging the results of five test cycles on public roads in Southern California, Taycan Turbo range was rated at 275 milesóa significant discrepancy from the EPA's results.

Concerns about range remain the primary barriers to electric vehicle adoption. In this regard, Tesla's Model S and Model 3 still hold an advantage over Porsche's first production EV. However, some Taycan Turbo buyers may be less concerned about maximum range and more about driving dynamics. We've driven the Taycan several times in different trims and found it to be a thrillótruly an EV deserving of the Porsche crest.

Nonetheless, we can only imagine Elon Musk smirking triumphantly as he learns the news of Porsche's comparatively paltry range.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/offi...rbo-epa-range/
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Old Today, 02:23 PM   #1896
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Just leaves the door open for Tesla to make a more focused accelerating and handling car. If Porsche lowers the expectation of EV range with good ol fashion P-badge mind warp wizardry, Tesla can certainly benefit from it. Tesla has been moving the needle despite all the fake BS pushed on them. More fast more range more more more. But make it cheaper! Bah!
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