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Old 09-26-2022, 03:23 PM   #1
SubaDuba420
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Default Energy Price Hikes Hit Charging Costs (BBC)

Electric car charging costs nearing petrol prices for some - RAC in England
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63029226
Quote:
The cost of charging an electric car has surged due to the rise in energy prices, prompting fears it will put off drivers from buying them, the RAC said.

It said electric car (EV) owners who use "rapid" public charging points were paying almost the same for electricity as they would for petrol per mile.

Charging the cars at home is cheaper, but domestic bills are also rising.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has been blamed for much of the recent rise in electricity and gas prices.

The RAC said its research showed the cost to charge an electric car on a pay-as-you-go basis at a publicly accessible rapid charger had increased by 42% since May to an average of 63.29p per kWh.

The hike in price means drivers who only use the public network to charge vehicles pay around 18p per mile for electricity.

That is just 1p less per mile for a petrol car, based on someone driving at an average of 40 miles to the gallon, the motoring group said.

The cost per mile for charging electric vehicles at home is around 9p per mile for the average-sized car. The BBC has been told most EV drivers charge at home overnight.

"For those that have already made the switch to an electric car or are thinking of doing so, it remains the case that charging away from home costs less than refuelling a petrol or diesel car, but these figures show that the gap is narrowing as a result of the enormous increases in the cost of electricity," RAC spokesman Simon Williams said.

"These figures very clearly show that it's drivers who use public rapid and ultra-rapid chargers the most who are being hit the hardest."
Yeah Britain, yeah rapid charger, yeah not at home, YEAH still not a good sign...
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Old 09-27-2022, 09:44 AM   #2
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Hmmmm......this is a few years (~5) ahead of when I thought it would happen. I guess we'll see if it ever goes back to normal after the war.
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Old 09-27-2022, 09:55 AM   #3
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Some states in New England expect EV charging to cost as much as a basic sedan. Still inexpensive but when you factor the EV likely cost much more, the scales flips. Granted I think this is short term due to the war in Ukraine impacting NG supply and pricing.

However, I think long term EV charging will be close to the same cost as an equivalent ice engine.
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Old 09-27-2022, 09:56 AM   #4
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Some states in New England expect EV charging to cost as much as a basic sedan. Still inexpensive but when you factor the EV likely cost much more, the scales flips. Granted I think this is short term due to the war in Ukraine impacting NG supply and pricing.

However, I think long term EV charging will be close to the same cost as an equivalent ice engine.
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Old 09-27-2022, 11:50 AM   #5
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Even if it was cheaper in reality, once we have a decent % of electric vehicles on the road the states will ENSURE it will cost the same with additional taxes for road costs.
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Old 09-27-2022, 12:35 PM   #6
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You guys are hilarious.

Still costs me around $3-4 in electricity for about 250 miles. Y'all cant even get a gallon of gas for that.
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Old 09-28-2022, 12:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
You guys are hilarious.

Still costs me around $3-4 in electricity for about 250 miles. Y'all cant even get a gallon of gas for that.
Same here (I'm under $0.10 per Kwh) but that will change rapidly over the next few years.
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Old 09-28-2022, 12:37 PM   #8
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Im not going to take EVs seriously until I see Adequate Infrastructure Reform for the electrical grid and supply of cities. More electric cars will just mean bigger energy costs until they Expand the GahDamn Grid. Idk why no one thinks of this. Where does Electricity Predominantly come from currently? Fossil Fuels and Natural Gas. Where are all those that live in Apartments going to charge their car? Whos going to pay the Apartment owners to have EV charges installed in half their parking spots?
EVs remain only for those lucky enough to be in a House where they can charge at home. So basically those making decent money. Too bad most of the country Does Not make decent enough money.
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Old 09-28-2022, 01:21 PM   #9
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All the electrical grid whiners should be more concerned about the rising number of heat waves and increasing demand from higher numbers of AC units - much bigger draw than EV charging (which often occurs off peak demand hours anyway, unlike AC units). Also until bitcoin starts cleaning itself up, that's a much larger draw on the grid than EV's are.

It's a potential issue, but it's not the issue that you all make it out to be.

Apartments - it'll be supply and demand. Some owners will put chargers in, others wont. People who need an EV spot will pay more for it. Others won't and will rely on public charging networks. I have 2 coworkers who live in apartments without chargers and drive EV's... they get along just fine.
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Old 09-28-2022, 02:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
All the electrical grid whiners should be more concerned about the rising number of heat waves and increasing demand from higher numbers of AC units - much bigger draw than EV charging (which often occurs off peak demand hours anyway, unlike AC units). Also until bitcoin starts cleaning itself up, that's a much larger draw on the grid than EV's are.

It's a potential issue, but it's not the issue that you all make it out to be.

Apartments - it'll be supply and demand. Some owners will put chargers in, others wont. People who need an EV spot will pay more for it. Others won't and will rely on public charging networks. I have 2 coworkers who live in apartments without chargers and drive EV's... they get along just fine.



Maybe expand on this a bit. I'm not well versed in this and I "learn" from y'all about this here. Hence why you don't see me posting much here; but, some of it seems to be "common sense". You say it's a "potential" issue. Yet, seems to be a "real" issue now in California, eh? Are you saying they are going to have a miraculous advancement in increased infrastructure? Faster than the mandates to be all EV? Other states are following California.



You're giving examples of people not having an issue NOW. When EVs are still a small fraction of total sales; but, expanding rapidly. I'm gonna guess much faster than the infrastructure to support it.



I am genuinely asking for an explanation of how it's "not the issue that you all make it out to be". When EV cars cost a good bit more than ICE(and I don't see a drop in those prices. Ever. When have you ever seen the price of cars drop.....more than once?). The cost of energy going up(sure it'll come down some....less of a % than it went up. but, continue that cycle), THEN more cost to charge as governments lose ALL that tax money from gas/diesel and will then impose those taxes on the EV cars to make up for it.
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Old 09-28-2022, 04:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Maybe expand on this a bit. I'm not well versed in this and I "learn" from y'all about this here. Hence why you don't see me posting much here; but, some of it seems to be "common sense". You say it's a "potential" issue. Yet, seems to be a "real" issue now in California, eh? Are you saying they are going to have a miraculous advancement in increased infrastructure? Faster than the mandates to be all EV? Other states are following California.
California's grid issues didn't magically appear when the "California Camry" (aka model 3) started selling in good numbers there, they've had grid issues for a long time, and it's mostly related to PEAK DEMAND. That is AC's running in the warm months during the day. Any EV that charges during the day isn't helping the problem, but they sure aren't the main issue. Most EV owners charge off peak, which actually helps to level power requirements on the grid, which is a good thing. There are states/utilities that charge less at night to encourage this, California is one of them if I'm not mistaken.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
You're giving examples of people not having an issue NOW. When EVs are still a small fraction of total sales; but, expanding rapidly. I'm gonna guess much faster than the infrastructure to support it.
They won't put the cart before the horse, and by that I actually mean utilities, whether public or private, are going to invest as minimally as possible in their grid, while maintaining it as cheaply as possible. They will upgrade the grid only when required, which means, when there are more EVs on the road; it's not the right way to do it, but it's the way they do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I am genuinely asking for an explanation of how it's "not the issue that you all make it out to be". When EV cars cost a good bit more than ICE(and I don't see a drop in those prices. Ever. When have you ever seen the price of cars drop.....more than once?). The cost of energy going up(sure it'll come down some....less of a % than it went up. but, continue that cycle), THEN more cost to charge as governments lose ALL that tax money from gas/diesel and will then impose those taxes on the EV cars to make up for it.
EVs do cost more than ICE currently, that's why there are federal tax credits for early adopters, and why those credits are supposed to be expanded next year (quantity and MSRP cap).

Cost of energy will continue to rise as cost to maintain the grid continues to rise, investments in the grid will happen only when needed, and the public will foot the bill through their electric bill.

Specific EV taxes are already being enacted to recoup tax revenue lost from gasoline, and to a lesser extent, lost revenue from Diesel sales (that money is mostly from trucking industry).

EV adoption en masse is going to start at the coasts and work it's way inward, infrastructure improvements will only happen when absolutely needed.
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Old 09-28-2022, 05:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Maybe expand on this a bit. I'm not well versed in this and I "learn" from y'all about this here. Hence why you don't see me posting much here; but, some of it seems to be "common sense". You say it's a "potential" issue. Yet, seems to be a "real" issue now in California, eh? Are you saying they are going to have a miraculous advancement in increased infrastructure? Faster than the mandates to be all EV? Other states are following California.

You're giving examples of people not having an issue NOW. When EVs are still a small fraction of total sales; but, expanding rapidly. I'm gonna guess much faster than the infrastructure to support it.

I am genuinely asking for an explanation of how it's "not the issue that you all make it out to be". When EV cars cost a good bit more than ICE(and I don't see a drop in those prices. Ever. When have you ever seen the price of cars drop.....more than once?). The cost of energy going up(sure it'll come down some....less of a % than it went up. but, continue that cycle), THEN more cost to charge as governments lose ALL that tax money from gas/diesel and will then impose those taxes on the EV cars to make up for it.
Post above got a lot more detailed than I was intending, so props to you sid.

The issue in CA, and the reason they told EV's not to charge during the day, is because of the large number of people using AC units. They're really energy intensive, run for long periods of time, and everyone wants them at the same time of day. Conversely, while EV's use a good chunk of electricity, it's for much shorter durations, don't need to be plugged in every day, and can largely be done at times when AC units aren't all chugging at full speed. I plug my car in once a week at most for 6-8 hours. AC units in the summer, especially in warm places, run 24 hours a day. It's all about peak demand and charging at appropriate times. I do agree that they need to be able to accommodate some level of EV charging during peak demand, because sometimes you just need it, but all they did was request people not to charge during a few hours of the day when AC units would be in highest demand... They also asked people not to run dishwashers iirc... we gonna panic over that too?

EV's are in their infancy. We'd be crazy to think that they can't make things cheaper (relative to other products) over time.

Taxes need to be paid one way or another. I pay a surcharge on my registration every year to cover my lack of gas tax.
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