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Old 03-22-2019, 08:09 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Second-generation Toyota GT86 greenlighted by Bosses



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Second-generation Toyota GT86 greenlighted by bosses


Toyota has said that the GT86 coupé will be replaced with a new second-generation model developed in conjunction with Subaru.

The new version of the four-cylinder lightweight four-seater will sit beneath the recently launched six-cylinder Supra two-seater in an expanded line-up of Toyota sports cars, which will also make use of the firm’s GR Sport brand.

Following the launch of the Supra, there were reports that the GT86 may not be replaced.

Confirming that Toyota intends to develop a new GT86, European marketing boss Matt Harrison said it has been “a successful ‘halo’ product for us”. He added: “Supra is not to replace that car. They are for different audiences and are different products. We see a situation where they will sit alongside each other.”

The original GT86, launched in 2011, was co-developed with Subaru alongside the BRZ. It uses Subaru’s flat-four Boxer engine and transmission, and Harrison said it was “a safe assumption” that the next-generation model would retain those links. Toyota has used partnerships to help offset the high costs of developing relatively low-volume sports car models, with the Supra developed alongside the BMW Z4.

Toyota sees the GT86 and similar sports car models as powerful brand ambassadors, and company boss Akio Toyoda recently expressed a desire to build a full family of performance machines, in particular with its hot GR Sport line.

Speaking about the GT86, Harrison added: “Its role is not one particularly about volume globally. It’s about adding excitement to the brand and emotional appeal.

“The GT86 has definitely been successful for us in achieving that, particularly in markets like the UK.”

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Old 03-22-2019, 08:42 AM   #2
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I wonder how underpowered this one will be.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:48 AM   #3
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Knowing how these updates have gone in the past I'm guessing it will make 206-209 bhp...
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
I wonder how underpowered this one will be.
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Originally Posted by Turpid Porpoise View Post
Knowing how these updates have gone in the past I'm guessing it will make 206-209 bhp...
Let's not get all doom and gloom gentlemen, let's be hopeful. There is a chance Subaru and Toyota will have learned from the first gen and will expand the second gen lineup to include some form of optional forced induction.

Or you know, since Subaru will be at the helm, it will get a CVT and hybrid system, but hey, it will get eyesight!
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:20 AM   #5
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Good news. As an auto enthusiast I think the success of a car like is important as it shows that millennials care about sporty cars. I don't foresee anything close to 300 hp but one would have to imagine there will be a modest bump in power in the range of 240 hp which is probably all this car needs at the price point.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Let's not get all doom and gloom gentlemen, let's be hopeful. There is a chance Subaru and Toyota will have learned from the first gen and will expand the second gen lineup to include some form of optional forced induction.

Or you know, since Subaru will be at the helm, it will get a CVT and hybrid system, but hey, it will get eyesight!
I'm just being facetious since the last STI power bump went from 305 to 310.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:00 AM   #7
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I'm just being facetious since the last STI power bump went from 305 to 310.
same here - hybrid, cvt, eyesight comment.

Seriously though, there aren't many drivers cars out there, even if it's just a better chassis with a mild power bump it will probably still do well.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:32 AM   #8
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same here - hybrid, cvt, eyesight comment.

Seriously though, there aren't many drivers cars out there, even if it's just a better chassis with a mild power bump it will probably still do well.
Agree, I'd be interested in getting a second gen if they upped displacement enough(FA24 maybe) to generate some more low/mid range torque to help pull it out of corners. I don't think they need it to be forced induction or a 240-300hp motor to make it a fun drivers car, just a bit more grunt.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:02 PM   #9
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I am nowhere close to wanting one of these in my life, but I'm excited to see this car continue.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:30 PM   #10
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[Dream] 2.4T [/Dream]

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Old 03-22-2019, 12:55 PM   #11
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This is perplexing. With the layout and its need for using Toyota sourced transmissions, what does Subaru have to replace the FA20? AFAIK the FA20DIT and 24DIT are setup with bell housings to work only with Subaru's AWD trans. Solving that issue creates another issue. Torque! Lots of torque! Can Toyota base transmissions handle the torque while keeping the vehicle weighing and priced similar to gen 1? These are entry sports cars. Mid peak power is great for heavier and/or AWD cars, but a lightweight RWD sports car needs to wring out its power to be engaging to drive while keeping the balance and capability of all the other parts (cooling, braking, strength, durability, etc). I just don't see that with Subaru's engines. So unless there is a complete overhaul of the FA20, I'm skeptical of a gen 2 BRZ that will please those asking for more power. Nobody wants it to gain weight. That eliminates a hybrid option, IMO. Ugh. Help me here.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:59 PM   #12
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Doesn't have to be the 2.0 turbo, they do have a 1.6 turbo.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:19 PM   #13
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That might be where they go with it. Not the FB16 tho. Perhaps develop an FA16DIT with D4-S that makes more screaming power up top to mitigate the middle bloat to flatline. Not sure if that's even doable but would make sense given cars like the Civic Si. But like we've heard time and time again about the gripes with the Fiata vs Miata, a totally new FA20 along the lines of an S2K might work better but also likely be too dirty.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:34 PM   #14
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I have to imagine the car is going to come with a new engine. Toyota and Subaru fully know what the main complaint was with the existing car and it would be suicide to trot out a new version with the same anemic engine. The question is what the engine will be and how much more power.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:39 PM   #15
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Yes. That's what I'm getting at. Toyota is pickled with Subaru's engine family and RWD layout using their trannies in a low small package. Toyota has their own turbo 4 cylinder engines, but that kinda ruins the whole Subaru partnership. If only Toyota had gone to Lotus instead...
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
This is perplexing. With the layout and its need for using Toyota sourced transmissions, what does Subaru have to replace the FA20? AFAIK the FA20DIT and 24DIT are setup with bell housings to work only with Subaru’s AWD trans. Solving that issue creates another issue. Torque! Lots of torque! Can Toyota base transmissions handle the torque while keeping the vehicle weighing and priced similar to gen 1? These are entry sports cars. Mid peak power is great for heavier and/or AWD cars, but a lightweight RWD sports car needs to wring out its power to be engaging to drive while keeping the balance and capability of all the other parts (cooling, braking, strength, durability, etc). I just don’t see that with Subaru’s engines. So unless there is a complete overhaul of the FA20, I’m skeptical of a gen 2 BRZ that will please those asking for more power. Nobody wants it to gain weight. That eliminates a hybrid option, IMO. Ugh. Help me here.
I'll play along. So, keep the FA20 to allow an old school high revving nature sports car. Follow the Miata by losing weight for the 2nd gen.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:55 PM   #17
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Is losing enough weight to impact acceleration in a way to change people's perceptions even possible with the SGP? I think the Impreza may have gained 30 lbs. Honda had the opposite problem with the S2K which I think they did a decent job addressing. Though the car didn't survive long enough to improve further. I'm really surprised at Toyota's decision here given all the built in obstacles.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:20 PM   #18
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I am glad this will continue. But I'd rather see it with some robust I4, rather than another crap Subaru boxer.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:29 PM   #19
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I am glad this will continue. But I'd rather see it with some robust I4, rather than another crap Subaru boxer.
I4 would upset the weight balance, and the FA20 (D4S) is the farthest thing from crappy. It's incredibly robust, and they were taking tons of abuse from tuning before grenading. I'd say it's quite a bit stouter than the FA20DIT.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:56 PM   #20
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The 86/BRZ is a great car in the Miata class, yes some more HP would make it fun. I owned one for few years and honestly never felt short of HP. I also owned a GT-R and honestly I'm stuck in traffic at 35mph along with rest public. I bet it looks an awful lot LIKE THE SUPRA when reintroduced
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:17 PM   #21
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The 86/BRZ is a great car in the Miata class, yes some more HP would make it fun. I owned one for few years and honestly never felt short of HP. I also owned a GT-R and honestly I'm stuck in traffic at 35mph along with rest public. I bet it looks an awful lot LIKE THE SUPRA when reintroduced
I highly doubt they'll change the looks all that much.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
I wonder how underpowered this one will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Let's not get all doom and gloom gentlemen, let's be hopeful. There is a chance Subaru and Toyota will have learned from the first gen and will expand the second gen lineup to include some form of optional forced induction.

Or you know, since Subaru will be at the helm, it will get a CVT and hybrid system, but hey, it will get eyesight!


Soo many people still just don't get it. The person quoted in the article basically even says it. Want more HP? Get a Supra. The twins have their target and it has been successful at that target. The next one will be an improvement. For those wanting "significant" HP gains for the next one, you might as well shoot yourself in the foot now. My wager on the gain is as someone said. It'll be some; but, it'll be a whole package improvement. The Supra is there for the HP folks. Getting hopes up on Gen 2 I think is a waste if you're waiting for HP.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:59 PM   #23
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I4 would upset the weight balance, and the FA20 (D4S) is the farthest thing from crappy. It's incredibly robust, and they were taking tons of abuse from tuning before grenading. I'd say it's quite a bit stouter than the FA20DIT.
X2. The FA boxer engine is the main reason I got the WRX. While I am not a fan of the EJ series, FA is an absolute gem. Hopefully the next BRZ/86 will get something like a FA16 DIT motor or NA FA24.
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:48 AM   #24
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Keep the current gearbox, seats, steering rack and feel. Lose some weight (100-150lbs) and drop in a 1.6 turbo that makes 200hp and 190ft lbs of torque and you will have a winner. Think Fiesta ST power numbers. And put some proper tires on it.

They don't need to change much just keep the car simple. It doesn't need to weight 3000lbs and have 250-300hp there are too many other cars already out like that.
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Old 03-23-2019, 10:51 AM   #25
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Keep the current gearbox, seats, steering rack and feel. Lose some weight (100-150lbs) and drop in a 1.6 turbo that makes 200hp and 190ft lbs of torque and you will have a winner. Think Fiesta ST power numbers. And put some proper tires on it.

They don't need to change much just keep the car simple. It doesn't need to weight 3000lbs and have 250-300hp there are too many other cars already out like that.
Agreed. The 1.6 turbo makes perfect sense for this car.
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