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Old 05-12-2019, 10:32 AM   #576
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335hp
4.1 to 60
no inline-4 model for US
starting msrp $50k
launch edition $55k

https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/gr-supra/

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Old 05-12-2019, 06:35 PM   #577
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So roughly $70-80k after the dealers mark them up
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:35 PM   #578
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I want to see how this performs against the M2. Looking at the price, I’d rather buy an M2C for just a little bit more or pick up a 2018 for less.
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Old 05-12-2019, 08:33 PM   #579
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At least they gave it a decent selection of colors.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:49 PM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
At least they gave it a decent selection of colors.
And Toyoda got his self-congratulatory autograph on the dash. I brokered a deal!
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:24 PM   #581
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Looks gorgeous in Yellow



Too bad it weighs the same as my STI and I can't stand BMW interiors.
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Old 05-12-2019, 10:52 PM   #582
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Plus automatic-only. And the turning isn't as darty as the Twins.

I'd consider a used Premium, or wait until they've updated it properly.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:22 AM   #583
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I wonder if they can take orders or is this the same take-what's-on-the-lot like the other Toyotas.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:56 AM   #584
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First Drive: 2020 Toyota Supra
Paul A. Eisenstein

The 2020 Supra was born of an unusual collaboration between Toyota and BMW.

Itís easy to feel intimidated at Summit Point Motorsports Park. The Shenandoah Circuit is an undulating, 2-mile course that sends you ping-ponging from one blind corner to another, rising and falling over the rocky West Virginia landscape. But it was as close to perfect a place to get my first ride in the all-new 2020 Toyota Supra as I could imagine.

Itís been 21-years since the last Toyota to wear that badge appeared in U.S. showrooms. Rumors of Supraís revival have been circulating ever since. We got a hint that something really might be in the works five years ago when the Japanese automaker revealed the striking FT-1 concept at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.


Reviews You Can Trust!

The show car was anything but the sort of plain vanilla product Toyota has become known for, itís long nose and sweeping roofline embodying the ďpassionĒ that Akio Toyoda has been crying out for since being named Toyota president and CEO in 2009. But the question was whether the Japanese automaker would actually ever put the FT-1 into production. Coming up with an answer became even more iffy in the years that followed, as new car buyers around the world began to migrate from sedans, coupes and sports car to SUVs, CUVs and pickups.


The new Supra's wheelbase is actually shorter than that of the Toyota 86, though its track is wider.

(Toyota set to unleash flood of 19 new products. Click Here for the story.)

Inside Toyota, it became increasingly apparent that a non-traditional business model would be needed to justify a new Supra, despite the strong response to the FT-1. But, even before the show car was unveiled, Tetsuya Toda had been sent on a secret assignment. Arriving in Munich and shuttled over to BMW headquarters, he had one basic question to answer: would it be possible for the two car companies to work together to come up with a new sports car platform that could reduce development and production costs enough to justify not only reviving the Supra nameplate but to build an all-new version of BMWís Z4?

It took more than a year for the companies to agree on a common goal Ė and to begin work on an all-new platform that was not just economically viable but that could meet the potentially conflicting challenges of serving as the foundation for both a coupe and a roadster. As we now see, the two automakers pulled it off. BMW launched the Z4 last year and Toyotaís entry making its debut at this yearís Detroit Auto Show.

Now, after flying down from Detroit, I was ready to see whether the Supra would live up to expectations Ė and if it would be more than just a Z4 clone. There were obvious reasons for the latter concern considering the way Toyota handled an earlier collaboration with Subaru that resulted in essentially identical sports cars dubbed the Subaru BRZ and Toyota 86. As it turns out, there was no need to worry.


The new Supra relies on a torquey, BMW-derived inline-six that lets it hit 60 in 4.1 seconds.

As it turns out, the two teams spent relatively little time actually working together. The biggest challenge was agreeing that an all-new platform was needed and that it would adopt classic sports car proportions, as the short wheelbase and wide track of both Z4 and Supra reveal. Much earlier on than has been previously reported, Toda told TheDetroitBureau.com, the two development teams parted ways, with virtually no subsequent contact. The chief engineer noted that he has himself spent less than an hour inside the Z4 and his counterpart has had no more experience with the Supra.

A quick glimpse reveals that the two cars have little in common visually. The new Z4 is classic BMW in design, albeit with one of the lowest and broadest versions of the automakerís familiar double-kidney grille weíve yet seen.

The Supra meanwhile, picks up on the aggressive new design language weíve been seeing on recent entries as diverse as the new Camry and RAV-4, with an array of curves and angles. That said, it actually comes together more effectively on the new sports car, perhaps reflecting the need for Supraís stylists to make every little detail functional, whether to enhance engine breathing and cooling, or to maximize downforce while minimizing drag.

The overall look is a bit controversial, but my personal read is that it is striking and distinctive and should strongly connect with traditional Supra fans as well as other sports car aficionados.


The development of the 2020 Toyota Supra took an unusually long seven years.

The interior is likely to touch off a bit more of a heated discussion. The new Supraís navigation screen and infotainment system, along with the iDrive controller, are lifted straight out of the BMW parts bin. The good news is that this is the latest version of the Bavarian system and far easier to use than earlier iterations.

The instrument cluster is unique to Toyota, however, and features a more classic design, centering around the tachometer. That might seem questionable considering there is ó to the horror of some fans Ė no manual gearbox available. But the eight-speed automatic is so quick and intuitive you might overlook that lapse, especially when you get comfortable with the steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters.

(Click Here to check out the new Toyota Corolla Hybrid.)

Supraí design isnít the only thing to engender some debate, however. Perhaps the biggest controversy surrounds Toyotaís decision to go with a modified version of BMWís 3.0-liter inline-six, rather than using an engine pulled of Toyota shelf. To Chief Engineer Tada, however, it was the only viable solution, the soon-to-retire veteran insisting that no engine offers a more perfect balance suitable for a sports car like Supra. One other surprise, however, was the fact that the Toyota package produces just 335 horsepower and 365 pound-feet of torque in Supra, compared to Z4ís 382 hp and 369 lb-ft.

(Toyota earnings slip as US market softens. Click Here for the full story.)


The Supra's proportions, adaptive damping and taught steering make it a worthy track car.

Arguably, you could punch out more. Supra takes 4.1 seconds to hit 60. Thatís nowhere near benchmark today. But for a true sport car, straight line acceleration shouldnít be the defining factor. It doesnít take much time on public roads or the Summit track to understand that Toyotaís powertrain package is perfectly suited to the car. Could you add more power? Of course. Does the sports car need it? No, not with maximum torque coming on by 1,600 RPMs and holding almost until red line.

It helps that the new Supra boasts an essentially perfect 50:50 weight balance and, with its wide track and relatively short wheelbase Ė about four inches shorter than the much lower-powered Toyota 86, in fact Ė there is a delightful sense of balance. The throttle response is intuitive, further enhanced by Supraís taut steering and low center of gravity.

On the Shenandoah Circuit, I was able to flog it around corners with aplomb, cutting full seconds off my times with each lap as my confidence grew. Iíd be surprised if we donít see some serious motorsports applications develop over the next several years. But even for amateurs Supra will be plenty appealing due to its forgiving nature.


The most visible sign of the BMW collaboration comes in the interior, with Supra's iDrive system.

With no real straights, the track is difficult to fully lock into memory, meaning youíre likely to overcook a corner, hammer the brakes hard and miss your line. Even when the rear starts to drift out, however, youíd have to really work to get it to break its grip. Drive well and Supra precise steering and adaptive suspension helped you emerge from turning laps feeling like a hero.

One other big surprise was how comfortable Supra proved while driving out on the highway. Heading back towards our hotel in suburban Washington, D.C. we flipped on cruise control and stuck close to the speed limit, knowing how tightly enforced the roads are in Virginia. In a more relaxed environment, the two-seater reveals more GT-like manners, especially when you relax the bolsters on the 14-way power seats, and use the selectable driverís mode control to soften the suspension and increase steering boost.

Despite its dual personality, I expect to continue hearing folks debate the merits of the Supra. No surprise. There are those who still chew over Porscheís decision to switch from an air to water-cooled engine on the 911.

The other commonly heard gripe is the lack of a manual gearbox for Supra. (And for a number of exotic marques as well, one might add.) The reality is that are fewer and fewer takers and the added complexity Ė and cost would have made it even more difficult to come up with a valid business case.


The first three generations of Supra. It's been 21 years since the model up front was pulled from production.

As to the decision to go with an eight-speed automatic, rather than, say, a twin-clutch, Tada answers with one word, ďweight.Ē Along with wheelbase length, track width and center of gravity, thatís an essential part of a sports carís proportions. A DCT wouldíve added substantial mass over the eight-speed, explained Tada, the automatic allowing the development team to keep Supraís weight down to a modest 3,397 pounds.

One things few folks will likely gripe about is price. Somehow, Toyota has managed to bring the base 2020 Supra 3.0 in at just $49,990Ė before the $930 delivery fee. To put that into broader perspective, thatís actually less than what youíd have paid for the previous-generation Supra more than two decades ago.

There will be three versions available, including the 3.0 Premium, at $54,920, as well as a Launch Edition, at $56,180. All three share the same powertrain and adaptive suspension system. The Premium adds niceties like an 8.8-inch touchscreen, a head-up display and 12-speaker JBL sound system. And the Launch Edition, limited to 1,500 cars, adds red mirror caps, black wheels, a red leather interior and a special, commemorative plaque.

Letís be honest: sports car buyers are a picky and opinionated lot. And thatís part of the fun. Youíre never going to get everyone to agree on the merits of any single model. But for those who might question the merits of the 2020 Toyota Supra, simply slipping behind the wheel and taking it for a drive should quiet most doubts Ė especially for those who might have access to a track or, at the least, some seriously challenging public roads. Itís been a long wait for the new model, but one that I found well worth it. If this is what CEO Toyoda means by ďpassion,Ē heís defined it well.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:00 AM   #585
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First drive review: 2020 Toyota Supra is fast and frenetic
Kirk Bell - Senior Editor
Itís late in the day at Summit Point Raceway, the warm sun of a late West Virginia spring is starting to pack it in for the day, and Iím still working on smoothing out my hamfisted ways behind the wheel of the 2020 Toyota Supra in my few remaining laps on the trackís Shenandoah circuit. So far the car has rewarded me for frenetic driving. Now Iím trying to see if it will reward a more precise driving style.

As I pull out of the pits, the crew running the show joke that Iím ďin the lead.Ē That only means Iíve driven more laps than anyone here, not that Iíve put up the fastest lap time. I canít help myself. This car is more fun than my favorite rollercoaster, I have hours of track time at my disposal, and seats keep opening up. The Toyota Supra is back, and Iím enjoying it, damn it!

The tight 14-turn version of the track weíre using comes across as a long autocross more than a Grand Prix circuit. Itís just the place for a short-wheelbase, wide-track, torque-rich sports car like the 2020 Supra.

2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra

Itís no 2JZ, but thatís fine with me

The Supra is the result of a partnership between Toyota and BMW, and it uses a lot of BMW technology and engineering, including the platform and the B58 turbocharged 3.0-line inline-6 under the long, low hood. Specifically, this is the B58B30O1 that makes 335 horsepower and 365 pound-feet of torque.

The B58 isnít the fabled 2JZ turbocharged inline-6 from the fourth-generation A-80 Supra. Enthusiasts revered that engine for how well it could be modified to make additional power, but this one simply makes a lot of power as delivered stock.

The experience starts with a simple push of the start button. The B58 fires to life with a ďwhummĒ that puts the limp sounds of the M3/M4 to shame. Toyota enhances the sound by piping in some of the low-range frequencies through the speakers. Mash the throttle, let up, and the engine sounds off pops and crackles like a childís push-and-pull corn popper.

The real fun is in the feeling of thrust. The B58 is down 47 hp versus the version in the BMW Z4, but it still provides immediate zip when exiting a corner or even mid-corner, and it pushes the Supra from 0-60 mph in a scant 4.1 seconds. That makes it the quickest Toyota ever. Who needs a 2JZ?

CHECK OUT: First drive review: The 2019 BMW Z4 sDrive30i revives the roadster

A single twin-scroll turbocharger works in concert with direct injection and continuously variable timing of the exhaust and intake camshafts to help the B58 deliver power at low rpm. Variable intake valve lift that adjusts both timing and duration also improves throttle response. The engineís torque curve is flat from 1,600 to 4,500 rpm and max horsepower is reached from 5,000 to 6,500 rpm. As a result, the Supra builds speed quickly and consistently well into the triple digits. Itís electronically limited to 155 mph, but there is obviously plenty of room for more.

2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra

Short, wide, and nimble


BMWís platform makes the Supra shorter and wider than you think. Its 97.2-inch wheelbase is 4 inches shorter than that of the small Toyota 86 sports car and yet its track is about 3 inches wider. It also boasts a perfect 50/50 front/rear weight distribution and a center of gravity thatís lower than the 86, a car known for sitting low thanks in part to a horizontally opposed 4-cylinder engine. Itís all harnessed by a double-joint spring strut front suspension and a five-link rear suspension, both outfitted with adaptive adjustable dampers with Comfort and Sport settings.

Thanks to that formula, the revived Supra corners at the limit with incredibly agility. Itís easy to adjust mid-corner, especially in Sport, but tail-happy when provoked by bad driving habits like braking while turning, yanking the wheel too quickly upon turn-in, or even lifting off the throttle too suddenly mid-corner.

Itís a blast to play with the Supra in a turn, adjusting its angle of attack by feathering the throttle and brake. Ease into the throttle and the Supra squats in the rear, its nose rises slightly, and it tracks well through the turn. Build too much speed, though, and it starts to push. Thatís when itís time for the brake, which has to be treated like a Fabergť egg. Hit it too hard and the rear end will try to swap places with the front, though that can be corrected with a dab of opposite-angle steering.

2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra

Thus far, Iíve relied on years of track experience and the carís stability control to fine-tune the Supraís attitude in the tight corners. Turns 6 through 9, all left-handers that are best driven as one long arc, have been especially challenging. Turn 9 resolves a quadruple apex into a downhill run that tends to send the rear 275/35R19 Michelin Pilot Super Sports into a slide toward the front 255/35R19s. The Supra simply lacks the length of wheelbase to make corner stability one of its strengths.

Thatís where the stability control and steering come into play. Toyota outfits the Supra with a 15:1 steering ratio compared to the quicker 13:1 ratio of the 86. Itís direct and has some heft in the available Sport mode, but itís likely not quicker because that would make it easier to get the Supra out of shape. Yes, it does have a variable ratio thanks to different gear spacing the farther the steering is turned off center, but that only comes into play at parking lot speeds, not on a track like this.

Toyota also offers three settings for the stability control: On, Sport, and Off. The default On setting imposes its will to help the car maintain its intended path through liberal use of targeted braking. However, it doesnít let the car slide as much as Iíd like on this track. The Sport setting allows more yaw, and makes it easier for me to recover from my sometimes sloppy inputs. It doesnít cut the power, even when it jerks the car back onto its path. Thatís what I call well-tuned.

I wouldnít mess with Off anywhere but a parking lot autocross. I fear a few too many overzealous and inexperienced Supra owners will turn off the stability control and introduce themselves to racetrack walls. Those who use Sport or can control the car without the intervention of stability control should be able to turn the 2020 Supra into an autocross champion. The carís short wheelbase makes it Barry Sanders nimble, and the engine dishes out power like a first-year kindergarten teacher with gold stars.

2020 Toyota Supra Launch Edition
2020 Toyota Supra Launch Edition
2020 Toyota Supra Launch Edition
2020 Toyota Supra

It rewards smooth driving, too

Brembo 13.7-inch front brakes with 4-piston calipers arrest the speed, no matter how fast the Supra is going. The only performance option is larger rear brakes; 13.0-inch rotors are standard, while 13.6-inch rotors are optional and both are clamped down upon by single, floating calipers.

Itís the end of a 5-hour track day and the brakes have never faded and the car has remained stable even under the heaviest braking. I expected it to bobble during braking given its short wheelbase.

I donít have to be smooth to get the brakes to do their duty, but I do have to be smooth to make the Supra trace a consistent arc through corners. It takes patience and precision. I have to get the speed under control, turn in, and let the car flow through the turn. It helps to keep my eyes up and look as far ahead as possible. When it works itís rewarding because it shows that Iíve attacked the track with skill rather than brute force.

A smooth lap in the Supra is a litmus test for skilled driving. A chaotic lap with hands and feet dancing will get the car around the track quickly, too. Both are fun, but work hard to achieve the former and the Supra will make you a better driver.

2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra

A relative bargain

The Supra and the new BMW Z4 share more than just their engines and platforms. The Supraís infotainment system and interior electronics also come from BMW. From the cockpit, the Supra feels like a BMW thanks to the familiar iDrive-type rotary controller and digital dashboard. The sport bucket seats have lots of bolstering to keep occupants snug during performance maneuvers, but tall drivers will want for leg room and their seats will rub up against the rear bulkhead of the cabin. The passenger seat is also oddly canted inward.


2020 Toyota Supra
2020 Toyota Supra

While the Toyota is a coupe and the BMW is a roadster, one other big difference is price. The Supra starts at $50,920, which is actually a few hundred dollars less than the fourth-generation Supra cost in 1998, its final year. The new BMW Z4 starts at about the same price, but thatís for a 4-cylinder Z4 versus a 6-cylinder Supra. To get the Z4 with the inline-6, buyers will have to shell out $64,695. Iíll gladly give up 47 horsepower to save $14,000 and gain the rigidity of a coupe body style.

Now if I can just get out on the track one more time, Iím sure I can be even smoother...or maybe not.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...t-and-frenetic
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:20 AM   #586
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Such an odd collaboration- Bimmota.

I too, would be going for an M2C instead.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:33 AM   #587
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Also I'm not a fan of the fake vents.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:39 AM   #588
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Yeah, I wish they had a MT variant.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:35 AM   #589
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All the reviews I have watched on Youtube, many of which were negative on the car, all seem to really like it, if not love it.

All said it looks better in person
All said the car feels much faster than the specs
All seemed to like the oversteer and playfulness of the car
Steering seems a little light but not too many complaints
Car is very balanced and neutral
Toyota has left power on the table either for reliability concerns or future mod updates


I like the looks on the web so am sure I would like it even more in person.

No manual = no sale for me though. Otherwise I would probably put a deposit down on one.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:40 AM   #590
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watched most of the Savagegeese livestream
  • Manual Trans can happen down the road depending on how this car sells.
  • Collaboration with BMW was very challenging due to cross-training dealers and mechanics and getting all the parts networks synced up.
  • Toyota initially told BMW that they were very motivated to keep their reputation for reliability strong. The Toyota team reverse engineered the motor to make sure it would meet their expectations. It passed. The Toyota team did, however, make recommendations for some improvements in future versions.
  • The motor is at a fairly low tuning state for its abilities. This is to keep reliability high and also so that tuning all the supporting systems is kept reasonable. There is plenty of engineered "future cooling" into the car; Ports in the diff, trans, and engine for upgraded coolers to be added.
  • The vents can be opened in future high-perf versions.
  • The whole front can be easily modified for more cooling. There are blocking plates in place now because they found it was over-cooled during testing.
  • They removed bracing that was originally designed in because it made the car too stiff. That bracing can be easily added in on higher tuned (or modded) cars.
  • Savagegeese said it reminded him of the M2 but that it drives far, far better; a true sports car. It rotates well and has the torque to launch out of corners. He said that it reminded him of driving a Miata with a bit more weight and all the power you could want.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:14 AM   #591
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It’s good to hear the positive reviews. I look forward to seeing one in person.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:14 PM   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
All the reviews I have watched on Youtube, many of which were negative on the car, all seem to really like it, if not love it.

All said it looks better in person
All said the car feels much faster than the specs
All seemed to like the oversteer and playfulness of the car
Steering seems a little light but not too many complaints
Car is very balanced and neutral
Toyota has left power on the table either for reliability concerns or future mod updates


I like the looks on the web so am sure I would like it even more in person.

No manual = no sale for me though. Otherwise I would probably put a deposit down on one.
The manual VS DCT dilemma is interesting. My M2 is DCT and for the first month or so I was really debating selling it and picking up a manual. However, after driving a manual a few weeks back I donít think Iíd want a manual in a new vehicle ever again (could be wrong). I just think with where power numbers are today matched with gearing, the dct ends up being a **** load of fun and the manual just doesnít seem to fit. That being said, I would never go anything else but manual on older vehicles (E46 M3, Supra, etc).

The DCT still feels very mechanical and you can hear / feel everything working together and engaging. Itís also a pretty damn fun feeling to be going WOT and banging through the gears, feeling how fast and hard if shiftsz
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:32 PM   #593
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Maybe my next car? I will wait as I wouldn’t be surprised to see considerable LCI changes knowing BMW. Really the only thing I don’t like is the ugly steering wheel. They should have just used a M steering wheel and change the airbag cover as it’s not like we don’t know it’s a BMW interior.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:47 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
The manual VS DCT dilemma is interesting. My M2 is DCT and for the first month or so I was really debating selling it and picking up a manual. However, after driving a manual a few weeks back I donít think Iíd want a manual in a new vehicle ever again (could be wrong). I just think with where power numbers are today matched with gearing, the dct ends up being a **** load of fun and the manual just doesnít seem to fit. That being said, I would never go anything else but manual on older vehicles (E46 M3, Supra, etc).

The DCT still feels very mechanical and you can hear / feel everything working together and engaging. Itís also a pretty damn fun feeling to be going WOT and banging through the gears, feeling how fast and hard if shiftsz
I like the M2 manual but you have to really shift fast under full throttle and not shift until 6500 RPM or you get this weird throttle delay that I hate. I get that everyone wants to be a purist but todayís manual transmission isnít the same manual transmission you remember as a young adult. Rev matching, rev hang, and other programmed behavior means that your manual transmission isnít as manual as you think it is. I just like how you can be fast all the time in a DCT without having to overcome the nannies as Iím not in race mode every day but like to be able to let it rip without a moments notice.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:21 PM   #595
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Yeah I get it. I have driven very recent PDK and DCT's in cars I have cross shopped. The C8 is rumored to be DCT only. Trust me, from a performance perspective, I get it. But I am just not ready to give up the third pedal and gearbox just yet.

That said my ND Miata was paid full in cash. It is stage 2 and the suspension is dialed in with some very nice higher end coilovers. Honestly, it's the best manual gearbox I have owned. No rev hang. Really tight gates. Very direct. Clutch is easy to engage. Heel toe is easy. So easy to rev match.

I am at the point where I could see myself adding a gently used Supra, or some other more powerful car to the stable with a DCT/PDK/auto as long as I keep the Miata for when I want a manual. I just need to build more garage space
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:35 PM   #596
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All I've learned from most of the supra's reviews and such is that sports cars past the 40k mark are an abysmal step backwards in price/performance ratio until you get really high. Like GTR prices high. I'm assuming it's because they start getting into the faux luxo range where people start buying non-tangibles like exclusivity, which I will never spend anything more than 0 dollars on.

I still really like the proportions, and I'd have been more enthusiastic if it had the top end b58 with 382 HP stock. I'd probably even look at it seriously to consider it. I still dislike the nose portion, the lack of manual, the weak performance for a car that is supposed to be top-notch for it's era, and the price they chose considering that performance.

Someone from japan please start competing with our domestics like you used to

Also, the more I watch savagegeese, the more I feel he's copping out and becoming a typical journo-shill. Not just for his supra review, but for a lot of his more recent reviews of new cars.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:44 PM   #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
All I've learned from most of the supra's reviews and such is that sports cars past the 40k mark are an abysmal step backwards in price/performance ratio until you get really high. Like GTR prices high. I'm assuming it's because they start getting into the faux luxo range where people start buying non-tangibles like exclusivity, which I will never spend anything more than 0 dollars on.

I still really like the proportions, and I'd have been more enthusiastic if it had the top end b58 with 382 HP stock. I'd probably even look at it seriously to consider it. I still dislike the nose portion, the lack of manual, the weak performance for a car that is supposed to be top-notch for it's era, and the price they chose considering that performance.

Someone from japan please start competing with our domestics like you used to

Also, the more I watch savagegeese, the more I feel he's copping out and becoming a typical journo-shill. Not just for his supra review, but for a lot of his more recent reviews of new cars.

It's a tough spot in the market, really.


It's either not more powerful enough than the lesser cars, or too much money for too spartan interior.

The Domestics own that space because their buyers are just looking at 2 things: HP and 1/4 mile times.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:01 PM   #598
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The new Supra is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen, makes a Hyundai not look too bad and that's saying a lot.

Seriously, my eyes.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:07 PM   #599
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
It's a tough spot in the market, really.


It's either not more powerful enough than the lesser cars, or too much money for too spartan interior.

The Domestics own that space because their buyers are just looking at 2 things: HP and 1/4 mile times.
Itís also a two seater. How long has the Z been on the chopping block? 15 years? lol
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:09 PM   #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
All I've learned from most of the supra's reviews and such is that sports cars past the 40k mark are an abysmal step backwards in price/performance ratio until you get really high. Like GTR prices high. I'm assuming it's because they start getting into the faux luxo range where people start buying non-tangibles like exclusivity, which I will never spend anything more than 0 dollars on.
What does this even mean? The Corvette has abysmal performance (you can get a new Grand Sport for well under $60K). The Camaro SS 1LE? M2? The Supra is 4.1 0-60 and, from all indications, the car handles really well. What are you expecting for $50-60K MSRP?

Quote:
I still really like the proportions, and I'd have been more enthusiastic if it had the top end b58 with 382 HP stock. I'd probably even look at it seriously to consider it. I still dislike the nose portion, the lack of manual, the weak performance for a car that is supposed to be top-notch for it's era, and the price they chose considering that performance.

Someone from japan please start competing with our domestics like you used to

Also, the more I watch savagegeese, the more I feel he's copping out and becoming a typical journo-shill. Not just for his supra review, but for a lot of his more recent reviews of new cars.
You keep saying weak performance. You seem to be hung up on horsepower and did not even bother watching the reviews. Toyota used a master driver to dial in the car. Want more power? Mod it.

In all honesty the 4.1 0-60 time puts it up against some really good cars and with a basic tune you are likely in the nid 3's. But 0-60 is a stupid metric anyway if the car is only good in a straightline.

As for Savaagegeese his opinion seems to echo everyone who drove the car and reviewed it. Matt Farah was estatic over the car and was clapping his hands when he finished his lap(s) in celebration.
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