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Old 05-14-2019, 12:03 AM   #626
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Resurrected Supra is better than dead car yes
Perhaps Nissan could have BMW make them a new generation Z. Z for everymakers. Hype gravy for hype bibs!
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:20 AM   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
The supra is about as distant from the corvette as the 370z is from the supra. The 370z is 20k cheaper than the supra, but the supra is only 5k cheaper than the vette. Same price if you get the launch supra.
370z sport with the good options are $35k, Nismos are almost $50k.

C7s are over $60k with the Z51 pack (NOBODY buys the base non-Z51 C7). The C8 is replacing it this summer by the time Supras hit the lots and will be over $60k.

$50k is the right price for the Supra. Its a fully loaded car too, the premium doesn't have anything important outside the bigger rear brakes.



The problem will be the markups....
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:23 AM   #628
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:09 AM   #629
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The 2020 Toyota Supra Is the Proper Sports Car It Needs to Be

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:21 AM   #630
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Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post
Agree with BeepBoop: B58 + Auto is ghey. Supra not found.

Also, Cayman=Gayman.
Yeah yeah yeah..same said about KdF-Wagen. Bet them chaps grip that fake sued..
Here you go old man. It’s amazing your twenty is Cal.

https://autoweek.com/article/classic...headed-auction
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:22 AM   #631
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I have really never been a fan of the look (even the FT-1)... but this looks kinda great.

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Old 05-14-2019, 09:32 AM   #632
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The red mirror caps look odd. Is that some TRD or Gazoo Racing color scheme?
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:35 AM   #633
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The red mirror caps look odd. Is that some TRD or Gazoo Racing color scheme?


Dunno. The launch editions all come with red mirror caps.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:55 AM   #634
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No one has any concerns about buying a BMW architecture, drive train, electronics (iDrive and IP)? One of the draws of a Toyota is reliability and lower maintenance costs; that is not going to be the case with the "Supra".
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:27 AM   #635
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Originally Posted by Genericuser1 View Post
No one has any concerns about buying a BMW architecture, drive train, electronics (iDrive and IP)? One of the draws of a Toyota is reliability and lower maintenance costs; that is not going to be the case with the "Supra".
Toyota claims they understood this concern and reworked the internals to their own specs to ensure reliability. Apparently everyone met up years ago to agree on some basic DNA, then separated to fine tune and finish their respective products.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:56 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Toyota claims they understood this concern and reworked the internals to their own specs to ensure reliability. Apparently everyone met up years ago to agree on some basic DNA, then separated to fine tune and finish their respective products.
yeah but that's all talk. Need a year or so to see if any of that is true. If interested I certainly wouldn't buy the first model year.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:33 PM   #637
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Wait are you saying the FA20 recall is fake news because Toyota engineers looked at the engine through a microscope and assured top quality across a ten year span of engine production?
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:13 PM   #638
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Wait are you saying the FA20 recall is fake news because Toyota engineers looked at the engine through a microscope and assured top quality across a ten year span of engine production?


He didn’t say anything about the FA20.

The story I read was that Toyota essentially did a reverse engineering review on the BMW engine (tear down, durability test result review, etc) and determined that the durability of the design would be satisfactory along with giving some advice for future iterations of the engine. You can’t control supplier quality through that sort of review so I don’t think Chan is saying that at all. The FA20 spring recall is likely due to contamination or an inclusion in the spring raw material... which is not a design criteria issue but manufacturing quality control problem.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:24 PM   #639
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WOW...Regardless Toyota wins today. The amount of folks talking about this is indicative of how it will do.

Will it have 1M staying power in the used market? Probably not. Is it a putting down 20 more HP than it did before the platform died decades ago? Yup. Is that impressive on paper? Nope. Does that mean it wont sell? Nope.

I'm not sure in the market of 50k what it competes against. It is a 2 seater, RWD, and doesn't make crazy power. I suppose the Cayman is close or the TTRS but who is cross shopping this?

Performance wise I'm sure it will hold its own in the sub 400 HP world.

When you can buy "non special" edition Mustangs and Camaro's in the high 40's to low 50's I don't think asking 50ish for this is an insane ask.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:18 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by Genericuser1 View Post
No one has any concerns about buying a BMW architecture, drive train, electronics (iDrive and IP)? One of the draws of a Toyota is reliability and lower maintenance costs; that is not going to be the case with the "Supra".
It's 2019 and the Germans have stepped up their game as BMW has the same amount of problems/100 cars as BMW over 3 years;

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...dability-study

Reliability should be good as above and the fact the from my experience at BMW forums few people are having issues with their cars as the M2 has the least amount of threads regarding issues I've ever seen from any car community I've been associated with but I would expect that parts will be more expensive compared to Toyota parts bin pricing but that's the reality of owning an expensive car and iDrive is one of the best infotainment systems out there and considerably better than the Toyota or Lexus alternatives.

Last edited by heavyD; 05-14-2019 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:19 PM   #641
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I'm all for this....

B58 with a jb tune should net a decent gain. The reviews I've been watching/reading have all pointed to one thing. Toyota plans to make a revamped model in a couple years. There are testing the waters "so to speak" with this one. Yes it will sell.

The ONLY gripe I have is if it's going to be auto why not make it DCT? Or at least offer a MT transmission.

Last edited by vlad11591; 05-14-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:24 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
It's 2019 and the Germans have stepped up their game as BMW has the same amount of problems/100 cars as BMW over 3 years;

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...dability-study

Reliability should be good as above and the fact the from my experience at BMW forums few people are having issues with their cars as the M2 has the least amount of threads regarding issues I've ever seen from any car community I've been associated with but I would expect that parts will be more expensive compared to Toyota parts bin pricing but that's the reality of owning an expensive car and iDrive is one of the best infotainment systems out there and considerably better than the Toyota or Lexus alternatives.
BMW is as reliable as BMW now?

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:25 PM   #643
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Wonder if the MT will eventually become an option, whether its in this iteration or the suped-up version that we'll inevitably get in a few years. I cannot imagine a world in which they do not add it, given that it seems to be a major sore spot in just about every review that's out there.
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:45 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
WOW...Regardless Toyota wins today. The amount of folks talking about this is indicative of how it will do.

Will it have 1M staying power in the used market? Probably not. Is it a putting down 20 more HP than it did before the platform died decades ago? Yup. Is that impressive on paper? Nope. Does that mean it wont sell? Nope.

I'm not sure in the market of 50k what it competes against. It is a 2 seater, RWD, and doesn't make crazy power. I suppose the Cayman is close or the TTRS but who is cross shopping this?

Performance wise I'm sure it will hold its own in the sub 400 HP world.

When you can buy "non special" edition Mustangs and Camaro's in the high 40's to low 50's I don't think asking 50ish for this is an insane ask.
I watched the interview with the head Toyota engineer. For got his San name but he was asked a number of questions. There is a LOT of room left on the table for this engine. And he's engineered space for mods. Cooling, rigidity, etc, and basically made the car to mod. I think the aftermarket is going to have a field day with it.
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Old 05-14-2019, 04:11 PM   #645
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The supra is about as distant from the corvette as the 370z is from the supra. The 370z is 20k cheaper than the supra, but the supra is only 5k cheaper than the vette. Same price if you get the launch supra.

Sounds like the supra is a bad car to bring into its own conversation.
How so? c8 corvette is 115hp more and has only .1 less in 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

The c8 has some pretty neat track options (adjustable dampers) but I don't think we can compare anything until we see track times.
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:17 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
He didn’t say anything about the FA20.

The story I read was that Toyota essentially did a reverse engineering review on the BMW engine (tear down, durability test result review, etc) and determined that the durability of the design would be satisfactory along with giving some advice for future iterations of the engine. You can’t control supplier quality through that sort of review so I don’t think Chan is saying that at all. The FA20 spring recall is likely due to contamination or an inclusion in the spring raw material... which is not a design criteria issue but manufacturing quality control problem.
The upselling of Toyota’s development process is at question. Knowing what we now know with what happened with the FA20, how is the Supra any different than the 86 in this regard? Supply chain and assembly not under Toyota quality control. God forbid a recall occurs and Toyota techs are tearing down yet another alien engine.

My point was simple and obvious. Gaslighting for whatever motive you have doesn’t change a valid concern.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:04 PM   #647
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C&D tested it and it's surprisingly very quick;

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-zero-to-60/

Quote:
These acceleration times stack up favorably against some bigger, pricier guns, nearly hanging with a Chevy Corvette or a Porsche Cayman GTS through the quarter-mile and slightly outaccelerating the BMW M2 Competition and the Ford Mustang Shelby GT350. This doesn't come as much of a surprise, given that it is based on BMW componentry, but the revived Supra follows in the BMW tradition of delivering far better performance than its claimed power, and thus power-to-weight ratio, would suggest. For example, at 10.1 pounds per horsepower, the Supra outaccelerates the Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, which has 120 more horsepower, each of which is only taxed with 8.2 pounds. It's less a question of whether or not the Supra's 335-hp inline-six is underrated, and more about how much. Unfortunately, we have yet to test a BMW Z4 M40i to see how close the Supra is to the more powerful, "382-hp" six-cylinder Z4.
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Despite wearing modestly sized Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires—that, yes, are branded with BMW's star (★) designation—the Supra averaged a heroic 1.07 g on the skidpad. That hangs with just about anything not wearing DOT-approved track tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 or Pirelli P Zero Corsas, and slightly better than the current top-dog Cayman GTS and BMW M2. Braking performance from 70 mph came in at a solidly impressive 148 feet, right in line with the front-engine competition, although the slightly front-biased Supra (51.5/48.5 percent front/rear) can't hang with the rear-biased Porsche Cayman or Boxster.
All of a sudden this car is kind of looking like a bargain.

Last edited by heavyD; 05-14-2019 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:28 PM   #648
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Aren't some BMW cars underrated from the factory as well? I could have sworn I saw an article or two about recent-year BMWs performing much better on the dyno than the spec sheet would have you believe.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:55 PM   #649
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50/50 weight distribution
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:35 PM   #650
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