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Old 02-15-2020, 05:44 PM   #1426
chapstien
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Will someone please explain "fewer" or "more" morals? My definition of morals is they are rules of conduct where one has an opinion about if a behavior is what we would label "good" or "bad."

Does one find more things they feel are wrong to do and they avoid them? Do they define all the right things and do only those? Does their set of have a larger set of intersecting opinions with the average person? Smaller? More"bad" items that "good?"

Or are we talking about a list someone made generations ago, and if you follow those, you are moral?


There are no actual things called morals. It's a judgement people use to define rules for hate.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:54 PM   #1427
etothen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
I just want to be clear, here. Are you all blaming Christians for events depicted in the old testament?
No, for defending the things in the books they think are magic in all the weird ways they do. You can't just define it down to 'defending the old testament'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstien View Post
Will someone please explain "fewer" or "more" morals? My definition of morals is they are rules of conduct where one has an opinion about if a behavior is what we would label "good" or "bad."

Does one find more things they feel are wrong to do and they avoid them? Do they define all the right things and do only those? Does their set of have a larger set of intersecting opinions with the average person? Smaller? More"bad" items that "good?"

Or are we talking about a list someone made generations ago, and if you follow those, you are moral?


There are no actual things called morals. It's a judgement people use to define rules for hate.
I would argue that there are and that they are the things that allow humans to live in close contact.

There are not fewer or more morals, but there are people that are more or less moral, playing the semantics game to be a religion apologist is just that, a game, not a real argument.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:38 PM   #1428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstien View Post
Will someone please explain "fewer" or "more" morals? My definition of morals is they are rules of conduct where one has an opinion about if a behavior is what we would label "good" or "bad."

Does one find more things they feel are wrong to do and they avoid them? Do they define all the right things and do only those? Does their set of have a larger set of intersecting opinions with the average person? Smaller? More"bad" items that "good?"

Or are we talking about a list someone made generations ago, and if you follow those, you are moral?


There are no actual things called morals. It's a judgement people use to define rules for hate.
If you think that there is no such thing as objective morality then this is not really a conversation you can coherently take part in.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:41 PM   #1429
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Originally Posted by UberWilhelm View Post
Yeaaahh, no, not even a close comparison. Plus, I would never do that because I have no issues with black people.
But you have issues with mentally-challenged people?
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:53 PM   #1430
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Originally Posted by etothen View Post
There are not fewer or more morals, but there are people that are more or less moral, playing the semantics game to be a religion apologist is just that, a game, not a real argument.
If by semantics, you mean nitpicking about word choice, I agree. I am seeking a common definition for the discussion. Are we talking about morality that is recognized by specific groups of people or morality that is apparent to a "rational person." I am speaking of the latter. for instance, in America today, there is a moral judgement about using the word "retarded" which is headed in the direction of not being able to use it even when talking about the timing of things. The same way we can't to anything using any discrimination, not just illegal ones, even though you are discriminating if you don't want to eat a cilantro because you don't like how it tastes. We are labeling that a "microagression."

I assert that a rational person would find it distasteful to call someone retarded if you were trying to hurt their feelings, but not to say that an action / decision / whatever doesn't seem to make sense. That's just fabricating outage. So in the context of 2020 America, it's immoral, but the the context of the planet, disallowing it is immoral.

I can frame that differently. Let's say I haven't eaten in 15 hours. I claim I am "famished." That word used to mean the victim of a famine - a very serious social condition. For decades, we have been using that word to mean "I could really eat right now." So now I go to Ethiopia or some such, and I say "I am famished - lets for pick up some food." Am I insulting all those suffering / dead people? Am I making light of their poverty?

Last edited by chapstien; 02-15-2020 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:02 PM   #1431
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But you have issues with mentally-challenged people?
The comparison between the two words fails. In one case the word can be used metaphorically to insult someone's intelligence. In the other case the only usage, even if metaphorical, invokes racist ideologies. So if I were to say a white person was acting like a n*** it's still racist because that's the only way that's an insult. However, calling a person of normal intelligence a r***** can be an insult even if that person harbors no ill will towards those with learning disabilities, assuming no such person is in the room they are not harmed. It is objectively the case that people for whom that word was previously a medical evaluation are less intelligent, just like moron, idiot, and imbecile before it.

Honestly I don't really care, it's not that big of a deal to not use a word. But people in favor of striking it from the language really need to come up with better arguments.
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:58 PM   #1432
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Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
Are you saying that anyone who follows generic Christian beliefs supports those things?
Bada

Quote:
Originally Posted by VpointVick View Post
By failing to reject a text that specifically speaks of those things they do by default.
Bing

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Originally Posted by UberWilhelm View Post
Yes, through inaction against those who proudly claim it.
Bada

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKarl View Post
Have a conversation with someone following generic Christianity about the specific scriptures in which those things are not only condoned but mandated, and they will make excuse after excuse for why it was ok. I've found this to be true without exception. So, yes, by failing to take a stand against those things they're tacitly endorsing and excusing them. The only defense someone might have is ignorance, but usually when they're educated as to the horrible acts proclaimed to be just by their holy book, they fail to reject it as they should.

It's evidence of how poisoned by Christianity's nonsense our society has become that this issue even seems to be a grey area. This should be as obvious to everyone as it is that those who deny the holocaust or run the businesses of sex traffickers are not moral authorities.

Boom


And we explain it OVER and OVER and OVER again...



It's mind boggling what christians will do to try and make "their" version of the fairy tale the one that counts/matters, as if everyone else who reads and comprehends the bibles just doesn't "get it". They (followers) are just simply incapable of rational logical reasoning when it comes to said fairy tale, and will either try and justify why horribly inhuman things are promoted in said fairy tale or just exit stage left and let "everyone else" cool down and hopefully forget what was being discussed. Quick to brag when something positive happens that they were praying for but quick to disappear when bad things happen despite millions of people praying.
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:59 AM   #1433
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Maybe you should pray for them
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Old 02-16-2020, 03:20 AM   #1434
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:58 AM   #1435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyKarl View Post
If you think that there is no such thing as objective morality then this is not really a conversation you can coherently take part in.
The objective ones are the ones that I framed as the ones a "rational person" would recognize. Most are not objective and not static.For instance "unjustified murder."
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Old 02-16-2020, 03:00 PM   #1436
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Originally Posted by Howl View Post
But you have issues with mentally-challenged people?
Whoops, I see how you could get that from what I posted. I have issues with religious people and truly believe they are mentally challenged and have acknowledged that calling them 'retards' is indeed an insult to the rest of the mentally challenged community.
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Old 02-16-2020, 07:49 PM   #1437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapstien View Post
The objective ones are the ones that I framed as the ones a "rational person" would recognize. Most are not objective and not static.For instance "unjustified murder."
Now that I thought about it, what I posited is not objective, even with agreements about what acts are moral. Are you talking about and believing this discussion should follow the rules of ethical objectively? That could be interesting in that you could show that every moral act that humans agree upon en masse are false ones.

At any rate, I am asserting that moral actors are emotional actors, and we are discussing how humans enforce morality, not about the essential truth about the morality of an act.
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Old Yesterday, 12:14 AM   #1438
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Lifelong piece of **** continues to be piece of ****.
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Old Yesterday, 10:53 AM   #1439
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Are any of you familiar with YouTubers Rhett and Link? They posted a pretty fascinating series of four podcasts outlining their "lost years", the ones they never talked about between when they quit their engineering jobs and became full time YouTubers. Turns out they were Evangelical missionaries, who eventually lost their faith.

Episode 1 is the background outline of how the church directly contributed to their career as entertainers.

Episode 2 is their years as missionaries.

Episode 3 is Rhett's spiritual journey, episode 4 Link's.

They're on YouTube now too, here's part 1:

Last edited by Brew78; Yesterday at 10:54 AM. Reason: Autocorrect sucks
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Old Yesterday, 12:33 PM   #1440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
God in the monotheistic sense is only about 3,000 years old.
I think Zoroastrians add another millenia or so to that.

But certainly an atheist who adheres to moral principles is more moral than a follower of an Abrahamic religion even if those moral principles are the same, simply because morality in absence of scriptural coercion must come from within, it is internal. Morality defined by scripture is necessarily external, the adherents simply follow along.

When 'they' say someone cannot have morality without religion, it is most certainly true, but only for them. If they felt God wasn't looking, or God approved, they would commit the worst of crimes without hesitation. Perhaps that last sentence is not actually a hypothetical.
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Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM   #1441
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Originally Posted by Brew78 View Post
Are any of you familiar with YouTubers Rhett and Link? They posted a pretty fascinating series of four podcasts outlining their "lost years", the ones they never talked about between when they quit their engineering jobs and became full time YouTubers. Turns out they were Evangelical missionaries, who eventually lost their faith.

Episode 1 is the background outline of how the church directly contributed to their career as entertainers.

Episode 2 is their years as missionaries.

Episode 3 is Rhett's spiritual journey, episode 4 Link's.

They're on YouTube now too, here's part 1:
https://youtu.be/hYCgz-MiNE4
Huh, this looks very interesting.
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Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM   #1442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brew78 View Post
Are any of you familiar with YouTubers Rhett and Link? They posted a pretty fascinating series of four podcasts outlining their "lost years", the ones they never talked about between when they quit their engineering jobs and became full time YouTubers. Turns out they were Evangelical missionaries, who eventually lost their faith.

Episode 1 is the background outline of how the church directly contributed to their career as entertainers.

Episode 2 is their years as missionaries.

Episode 3 is Rhett's spiritual journey, episode 4 Link's.

They're on YouTube now too, here's part 1:
https://youtu.be/hYCgz-MiNE4


These guys get paid for this?

Can someone explain how the income stream works?
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Old Yesterday, 05:14 PM   #1443
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Originally Posted by etothen View Post


These guys get paid for this?

Can someone explain how the income stream works?
1. Be a millennial.
2. Video yourself watching other people's videos on YouTube.
3. ???
4. Profit.
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM   #1444
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I haven't heard that an aqueous silver solution will destroy coronavirus.. unless you're making sure to wear your tommy copper compression sleeves too.

Otherwise, may as well just be drinking a do nothing silver aqueous solution that does nothing.
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Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM   #1445
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These guys get paid for this?

Can someone explain how the income stream works?
Generally speaking it's merch, patreon and sponsorships/sponsored content.
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Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM   #1446
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In the audio version of the podcast, they have a few sponsor readings in the middle. But it's not even their main channel, it's a side thing.
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