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Old 03-18-2008, 12:02 AM   #51
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shvrdavid View Post
I measured my exhaust setup...

The smallest diameter on my Ultimate Racing setup is 46mm at the v-band couplers for the up-pipe... Head pipes are 48mm inside diameter...
Yeh thats a nice size but because of restrictions with RHD i could only maximally go 38mm IDA for the twin scroll upipe. So i figured that there was no point going bigger in the headers as it would get shoved back to the smaller diameter..

Also the turbo housing has around that size diameter also for each scroll..

Found a silcone joiner 3" that we stretched over to fit 3 1/8" TB...

I gave it an absolute stomp on the way home and did it feel quicker hard to say, but its was scary fast either way..hahahha.

Its still stuck on and hasnt blown off which is a start.. Will be going on the dyno next friday when i get some other stuff sorted out.. to see if its changed in terms of power.. So if we have time maybe put on the standard mani as a comparison
...



Otherwise ill be putting back the standard manifold and doing a direct comparo..
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Last edited by tino; 03-18-2008 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:28 AM   #52
blowbyu24
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^^^im excited for the new dyno results....anyway you can get on the dyno earlier???...haha jk
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:59 AM   #53
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the black baloon hose ftw!
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:14 AM   #54
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Im sure the 3" silcone joiner will help...
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:15 AM   #55
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cant wait for Friday's results,Good Luck man.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:16 AM   #56
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In for new results...Good luck in getting everything sorted out man!
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:43 PM   #57
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Another well-known tuner here in the the US reported this on a Perrin & stock header thread:
Notice how he says the EL headers "lost" power @ higher rpm's
post#108
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1110218&page=5

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
I did one on an FP green STI. Turbo came on 600 to 800 RPM faster and as a result made 40 ft lbs of trq and 25whp under 4000 rpm. From 4500 to 6000 rpm power was exactly the same and from 6000 + it lost 8whp.

Clark
I've also heard the same comment from another very well-known and experienced tuner. The Perrin EL headers work great in turbos smaller than yours. The engine is an air pump. restrict the outlet and you can't take in more air than you can pump out. The turbine is pumping air into the engine once fully spooled (higher rpm's) but the engine can't use all of it because it can't pump it out. In this case, you will still see your boost reach very high PSI's but it doesn't mean the air is making it into the cylinders.

That's my best guess. Alot of good suggestions from others here. Now, there could be other reasons. So you'll have to carefully analyze where the system is choking.

Good thread.. we're all learning !
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:53 PM   #58
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I swapped out the perrin header on a built GT35r car for a DC Sports and picked up 35hp at 7krpms. The perrin header is good for a STG2 car but works horribly on big turbo cars.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:19 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerx View Post
Another well-known tuner here in the the US reported this on a Perrin & stock header thread:
Notice how he says the EL headers "lost" power @ higher rpm's
post#108
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1110218&page=5



I've also heard the same comment from another very well-known and experienced tuner. The Perrin EL headers work great in turbos smaller than yours. The engine is an air pump. restrict the outlet and you can't take in more air than you can pump out. The turbine is pumping air into the engine once fully spooled (higher rpm's) but the engine can't use all of it because it can't pump it out. In this case, you will still see your boost reach very high PSI's but it doesn't mean the air is making it into the cylinders.

That's my best guess. Alot of good suggestions from others here. Now, there could be other reasons. So you'll have to carefully analyze where the system is choking.

Good thread.. we're all learning !


Thats a fair comment, and I will look into it further i.e full race manifolds or UR.. but if i change the manifold if the restriction is in there then it will move to the upipe as i cant change the diameter of the upipe twin 38mm IDA pipe as it will hit the steering coloumn.

So changing the header will it still be beneficial??
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badazzcr View Post
I swapped out the perrin header on a built GT35r car for a DC Sports and picked up 35hp at 7krpms. The perrin header is good for a STG2 car but works horribly on big turbo cars.

Can u point me to the direction of the DC sports.. Whats the IDA of the piping?? And is it equal length..
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:31 PM   #61
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I am shoe horning a UR GT420R kit into a RHD GC8 right now.
It looks like the UR uppipe will clear the (rack just).
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:34 PM   #62
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintluciascooby View Post
Tino are you running a RHD car?
I am shoe horning a UR GT420R kit into a RHD GC8 right now.
It looks like the UR uppipe will clear the (rack just).
yeah it is RHD.. but ive had a custom upipe made up and dumpipe to suit as was told by full race that it wouldnt clear the steering column on a GD... So im not going to be spending anymore money on getting another one of them..

BTW wat is the internal diamter of the upipe, for each runner??
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:41 PM   #63
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48mm , I thought the clearances would be similar maybe it wont work in the end !!!!
I will let you know, I did go to a Tilton pedal box to get rid of the brake and clutch master cylinder to give lots of wiggle room
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:46 PM   #64
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yes the brake and clutch cylinders as well as the sterring column resivoir are big issues trying to get the turbo for one and the dumpipe shoe horned in..

If that turns out to be the limiting factor then i might just have to live with it for awhile anyway.. Maybe having just the header may help, so will determine the benefits of that for now..


500 hp atw on pump is more than enough to keep me happy..

Also is the diamter of the dump 3.5" and is the rear housing off the turbo 3.5" also??

Im running 3" from the housing all the way back so wondering if that also could be a restriction..

As for the cams my tuner said that if there were out it would be very obvious.
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:51 PM   #65
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do you have a pic of your up pipe .
the downpipe is 4" from the turbo(4" rear housing) all the way back.
I dont have power steering also
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:54 PM   #66
tino
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damn u race car drivers.

nah dont have a pic of the upipe as we were in arush to get it all together by the new yr. Even though it turned out that, that didnt even come close to evenuating..

So you should be fine then..


AS for the 3" dump i also have a 2" wastegate tube venting out into the atmo.. so this would then make the exhaust gases flowing out of a 5" diameter??
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:02 PM   #67
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hook up a pressure gauge to your header pipe and see if there is a lot of back pressure, quickest way to see if you have a uppipe exhaust problem?

Last edited by saintluciascooby; 03-18-2008 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:41 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Yeh thats a nice size but because of restrictions with RHD i could only maximally go 38mm IDA for the twin scroll upipe. So i figured that there was no point going bigger in the headers as it would get shoved back to the smaller diameter...
Hmm, I forgot it was right hand drive....
That would make for a lot more stuff to get around that is on the left side of my car...

I wish I new where a right hand drive car was around here that I could look at...
There has to be a way around it...

I am curious to see the difference the silicone coupler makes on your next dyno pulls...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tino
As for the cams my tuner said that if there were out it would be very obvious....
I am also curious how your tuner would know if a cam was off a few degrees without actually degreeing the engine with a degree wheel...

Nothing against your tuner, I would just like to know his trick in seeing an obvious 5 or 10 degree error in cam timing...
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:37 PM   #69
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shvrdavid View Post
Hmm, I forgot it was right hand drive....
That would make for a lot more stuff to get around that is on the left side of my car...

I wish I new where a right hand drive car was around here that I could look at...
There has to be a way around it...

I am curious to see the difference the silicone coupler makes on your next dyno pulls...


I am also curious how your tuner would know if a cam was off a few degrees without actually degreeing the engine with a degree wheel...

Nothing against your tuner, I would just like to know his trick in seeing an obvious 5 or 10 degree error in cam timing...


yes its hard with RHD...

As for degree cam timing, He told me that it wasnt out. As he built the engine so at this stage ill take his word for it..
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:18 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
damn u race car drivers.
AS for the 3" dump i also have a 2" wastegate tube venting out into the atmo.. so this would then make the exhaust gases flowing out of a 5" diameter??
Actually not to be anal but a 3' dump plus a separate 2' dump only equals a 3.6' total dump area because it works on surface area...

3' dump = 1.5 (radius) squared times pi
2' dump = 1 (radius) squared times pi

3' area + 2' area = 10.210 square inches

Divide that by pi then square root it you should get 1.80277564 (radius)

Now double that and you have you total diameter of exhaust dump-age
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:23 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rxw View Post
Actually not to be anal but a 3' dump plus a separate 2' dump only equals a 3.6' total dump area because it works on surface area...

3' dump = 1.5 (radius) squared times pi
2' dump = 1 (radius) squared times pi

3' area + 2' area = 10.210 square inches

Divide that by pi then square root it you should get 1.80277564 (radius)

Now double that and you have you total diameter for your exhaust dump-age AREA

flow is going to be a bit different and your method would have less flow loss
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:02 PM   #72
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post

flow is going to be a bit different and your method would have less flow loss
hahah...

Now would this larger flow prevent any backflow restrictions from staying with a 3" dump instead of going to a 3.5" dump??
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:05 PM   #73
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not sure I understand the question...if you are asking whether to go to 3.5", then yes, do it...if you are asking to go to 3.5" and run the wastegate back into the exhaust, I wouldn't.
With gains I've seen on the dyno between returned and atmospheric dump EWG's I will never run an internal unless its for a street car. Even then, I personally won't.
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:16 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
not sure I understand the question...if you are asking whether to go to 3.5", then yes, do it...if you are asking to go to 3.5" and run the wastegate back into the exhaust, I wouldn't.
With gains I've seen on the dyno between returned and atmospheric dump EWG's I will never run an internal unless its for a street car. Even then, I personally won't.
Micah never going to run the ewg back to the exhaust.. was wondering if goin to 3.5" will be beneficial over the 3"..

Which to ur answer is a resounding yes..
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Yeh it was dynoed in 5th gear as for stis that is the closest 1:1 ratio... for wrxs with 5 speeds dynos should be done in 4th gear to get 1:1 ratio
Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
I wish more people would realize this.

Somehow in the last couple years, it's switched to 4th gear in the sti and 3rd in the wrx
Your comments inspired another post btw:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7#post21626737

Jeff
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