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Old 07-03-2019, 06:13 PM   #26
Ernest
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Still have my first one. Got two now. Smiles every time I get in them.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:01 PM   #27
ben_7
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Default Why do you keep coming back to Subaru?

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Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
Frankly, nothing that Subaru builds today, outside of the STI and BRZ, are remotely interesting to me these days. I keep coming back to the old models, the GLs, RXs, GC/GD Imprezas because they were designed with logical, straightforward engineering, are simple to maintain at home and were pretty durable. I can't say that about any of their current products, outside the two aforementioned models.


This.

I own a 2018 STi and absolutely love it! However, I wouldn’t buy anything else from Subaru’s current lineup for the aforementioned reasons.

The WRX and BRZ aren’t my cup of tea. They’re good cars on their own and no offense to WRX and BRZ owners but the “rawness” isn’t there in the former and the power is simply lacking in the latter.

I lost interest in the former when it went with the FA20 and ELH, I don’t care about how much more reliable the engine is or how much fuel economy you gain, the character was simply stripped from WRX’s of yore.

And with the BRZ, great handling car, but just really lacking that power stock.

The rest of Subaru’s lineup...well put it this way, that CVT they keep going with really drew my wife and I away from the Ascent when we were SUV shopping for our family (we needed a bigger vehicle for us and our kids) and bought a used Honda Pilot. The Honda V6 and regular automatic transmission with its good handling characteristics won us over.

When we replace the Honda Pilot, we’ll look at a Toyota Sequoia or Toyota Landcruiser, but nothing else in the Subaru lineup interests me at the moment (other than the STi).

The STi though, wow what a car! I thank God I was able to purchase my 2018 STi because if they make it softer for the next gen or hybridze it or worse, give it a CVT or automatic of some sort, the current gen STi might be worth something in the long run.

With the STi, they really captured the essence of a true driver’s car from Subaru’s of old and wrapped it in a new body. It’s really sad that the rest of Subaru’s lineup doesn’t follow suit at the moment. Hopefully they might change this in the future for all their cars to have the current STi DNA.

Last edited by ben_7; 07-03-2019 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 08:13 AM   #28
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_7 View Post
The WRX and BRZ aren’t my cup of tea. They’re good cars on their own and no offense to WRX and BRZ owners but the “rawness” isn’t there in the former ... I lost interest in the former when it went with the FA20 and ELH, I don’t care about how much more reliable the engine is or how much fuel economy you gain, the character was simply stripped from WRX’s of yore.
'19 WRX Limited owner here. No offense taken, but can you describe this missing "rawness" in a little more detail for me? Is it some aspect of subjective driving "feel"? Anything related to the DCCD that the STi has and the WRX doesn't?

I'm having to guess that what you mean by 'ELH' is equal-length exhaust header. Yeah, that probably would change the exhaust note some. Just not sure why that would be an issue. Is this your core complaint here?


Just so you know, I never cared much for the original VW Beetle's H4 exhaust sound - I was there, and that sound was always the sound of low performance, that it was struggling with itself to make even the minimal amount of power that it did (36 or 40 HP, 30 - 33 HP/L). Any similar-sounding exhaust still brings up that association, and I used to get it from time to time in the 2010 LGT we used to own.


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Old 07-04-2019, 04:25 PM   #29
oichan
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I really like my 19 WRX Limited, it makes for an excellent daily driver as it is a comfy ride yet exciting to drive. I enjoy my commute a lot.

My 16 STI is definitely livelier with aggressive gearing, instantaneous responding EJ engine, hydraulic steering, etc. makes for a great weekend fun car for me. The suspension is a tad on the stiffer side, overall it is a lot more raw in flavor.. which is great for weekends but after a long day at work, I much prefer to drive my WRX. Effortless electric steering feels good, damping is awesome, has that nice oily Subaru goodness.

As for BRZ.. thing is a dog. Much too slow for its shape. A Camry can out accelerate it, maybe even a MDX..
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:34 AM   #30
ben_7
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Default Why do you keep coming back to Subaru?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
'19 WRX Limited owner here. No offense taken, but can you describe this missing "rawness" in a little more detail for me? Is it some aspect of subjective driving "feel"? Anything related to the DCCD that the STi has and the WRX doesn't?



I'm having to guess that what you mean by 'ELH' is equal-length exhaust header. Yeah, that probably would change the exhaust note some. Just not sure why that would be an issue. Is this your core complaint here?





Just so you know, I never cared much for the original VW Beetle's H4 exhaust sound - I was there, and that sound was always the sound of low performance, that it was struggling with itself to make even the minimal amount of power that it did (36 or 40 HP, 30 - 33 HP/L). Any similar-sounding exhaust still brings up that association, and I used to get it from time to time in the 2010 LGT we used to own.





Norm


The 2015+ WRX is definitely more refined than the previous gen WRX's with electric steering vs hydraulic steering, twin scroll turbo with more power down low vs boost lag with the "kick of boost that comes in later", and yes the EHL vs UEHL which loses the iconic rumble.



All these things don't make it a bad car, in fact it's a really good all-round sports car that's easy to live with every day, whereas the previous gen WRX or current STi has those "raw" characteristics that while making it not an easy to live with daily driver most of the time, it has a more direct-raw, less refined feel to it which I prefer in a sports car.

Last edited by ben_7; 07-05-2019 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan View Post
I really like my 19 WRX Limited, it makes for an excellent daily driver as it is a comfy ride yet exciting to drive. I enjoy my commute a lot.

My 16 STI is definitely livelier with aggressive gearing, instantaneous responding EJ engine, hydraulic steering, etc. makes for a great weekend fun car for me. The suspension is a tad on the stiffer side, overall it is a lot more raw in flavor.. which is great for weekends but after a long day at work, I much prefer to drive my WRX. Effortless electric steering feels good, damping is awesome, has that nice oily Subaru goodness.

As for BRZ.. thing is a dog. Much too slow for its shape. A Camry can out accelerate it, maybe even a MDX..
Yeah, the WRX is definitely a better daily driver, but I have a Honda Pilot for daily driving duties. I love driving my STi for that "raw" performance goodness.

As for the BRZ, lol I think my older Honda Pilot can out accelerate it, and while it's a really good handling car, giving it another 50 horsepower would have just sweetened the deal and made it a modern day Nissan S15 Silvia!
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:42 AM   #32
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_7 View Post
The 2015+ WRX is definitely more refined than the previous gen WRX's with electric steering vs hydraulic steering, twin scroll turbo with more power down low vs boost lag with the "kick of boost that comes in later", and yes the EHL vs UEHL which loses the iconic rumble.

All these things don't make it a bad car, in fact it's a really good all-round sports car that's easy to live with every day, whereas the previous gen WRX or current STi has those "raw" characteristics that while making it not an easy to live with daily driver most of the time, it has a more direct-raw, less refined feel to it which I prefer in a sports car.
Thanks, ben. I have to admit that the matters of EPAS vs hydraulic-assist and differences in power delivery didn't occur to me, but I know exactly what you're getting at. Personally, I don't care for anybody's EPAS - either a bit too light with respect to effort and not much feel until you're pushing the car harder than you probably should on the street or artificially heavy to the point of numbness - but it's getting harder to avoid EPAS any more.

Actually, I prefer less refinement to more in most respects as well (I've got a 2008 Mustang GT that pulls well over 1g in the corners at my home road course track, stick axle and all, and it's still about 90% street driven). Perhaps the only significant exception here involves power delivery characteristics. I find having to predict 50 or a hundred feet in advance when and how much power I'm going to get as I squeeze into the throttle to be too much like a guessing game (when is it going to 'hit' and how much further along in the corner will I be when it does?). This matters, so I'll just say that my wife is still comfortable up to somewhere north of 0.5g in the corners and leave it at that.

Perhaps there's some generational differences here. I'll be 72 before the year is out, so I got here driving cars with much less refinement than anything you can buy today. Far less in some cases. And I suspect that the H4 exhaust note brings different associations for the same reason. Clattery old VWs that could hardly get out of their own way vs Imprezas in rally trim.


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Old 07-05-2019, 01:58 PM   #33
oichan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_7 View Post
Yeah, the WRX is definitely a better daily driver, but I have a Honda Pilot for daily driving duties. I love driving my STi for that "raw" performance goodness.

As for the BRZ, lol I think my older Honda Pilot can out accelerate it, and while it's a really good handling car, giving it another 50 horsepower would have just sweetened the deal and made it a modern day Nissan S15 Silvia!
You can't get a MT in a Pilot, can you? I hate AT cars, CVT/Planetary/DSG.. all of them. I travel a lot for work and pick up AT rental cars all the time from the airport.. so no personal AT cars for me..!

Yeah, I hear you about the STI. I love mine.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:32 PM   #34
dolemite
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Leaving BMW to come to Subaru. If all goes according to plan...
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:35 PM   #35
ben_7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oichan View Post
You can't get a MT in a Pilot, can you? I hate AT cars, CVT/Planetary/DSG.. all of them. I travel a lot for work and pick up AT rental cars all the time from the airport.. so no personal AT cars for me..!

Yeah, I hear you about the STI. I love mine.
No, the Honda Pilot is an SUV with an automatic transmission only. While mine is an older Pilot with a five-speed auto, at least it's not a CVT. It's my family car and my wife, kids, and I love it on daily trips and long drives. It's got a pretty potent V6 as well which is why I was saying it's probably faster in a straight line than a BRZ.

However, I hear you on the no auto deal. For fun cars and sports cars, I want a manual transmission, but for SUV's, I don't mind the automatic, which is why I love my STi for fun drives.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:53 PM   #36
Scorpius
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The rattles. I come back for the rattles. They remind me of my days as a baby swinging my rattle so care free.
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:28 PM   #37
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Name another 4 cyclinder that goes crazy with the little bit of boost.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:12 PM   #38
nomadben
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It just does everything, that's what I love about mine. It's small, lightweight for what it is, handles well, easy to park, but it's also big enough to fit a ton of stuff in the back, can carry four or five people, and has moderate off-road capabilities because of the AWD (trust me, I've tried), and of course it's great in the snow. And the EJ22 has been super reliable for me. I'm at 228,xxx miles and counting, and it still runs like brand new. I refuse to stop driving it until at least 250,000, even though it's pretty beat up at this point.

I've lived in mine for months at a time, I've taken it on all manner of dirt roads, sketchy trails up mountains, through tons of snow. Hell, I even caught air in it once when I was mudding. I've driven it all across the country numerous times, reaching as far as Maine, Seattle, and LA. I've packed all my stuff into it and moved to different cities. It's never let me down.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:12 PM   #39
Jacky Treehorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpius View Post
The rattles. I come back for the rattles. They remind me of my days as a baby swinging my rattle so care free.
My BMW has more rattles by far than my 2015 wrx . I've owned a lot of bimmers and my wrx was pretty tight comparatively...but back to your point , yes the rattles put me to sleep 😅
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:54 AM   #40
SoFlaRRRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loop.motors View Post
Name another 4 cyclinder that goes crazy with the little bit of boost.
Mk7 GTI
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:11 PM   #41
n7slc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn View Post
My BMW has more rattles by far than my 2015 wrx . I've owned a lot of bimmers and my wrx was pretty tight comparatively...but back to your point , yes the rattles put me to sleep


Interesting...my wife’s ‘11 328 doesn’t have any rattles. Nice and quiet. My ‘15 WRX, otoh, has several including one in the passenger door that rattles with the bass. I love fixing rattles in a Subaru, keeps me from being bored.
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Old 07-08-2019, 01:20 PM   #42
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Had a 2008 WRX that was modded, E85, etc. Really enjoyed that car, but felt like it was a ticking time bomb because I ultimately wanted to get into track days/HPDE and it just wasn't the car for it. So I sold it at a huge loss, bought a stock S2000, and pursued my track driving interests. After 2 years with the S2000 as my only car, and loving it, I bought a Civic Si as a daily driver. So I guess I was full on Honda fanboy at this point. But after a move down south, and away from any decent tracks within a reasonable distance, I lost interest in the S2000 and sold it. I found that my Civic Si sedan wasn't quite enough for me, so I decided to have a look at the '15+ Subarus, and came home that day with a '17 WRB STi. As Ben said, The STi is a great "raw" driver's car. Other than huge chassis improvements, its basically the same raw, mechanical masterpiece it was in 2004 when it first came to the US. IMHO, the current generation STi is very much an "end of an era" car. There is nothing else like it on the market.

Last edited by GravyRobber; 07-08-2019 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:29 PM   #43
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It’s a lifestyle 😎💨
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:22 PM   #44
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Had an 08 WRX that a purchased about 6 months after getting out of the Marine Corps at 22. Beat the living **** out of it for 50k miles at "stage 2". Only things that broke were my center diff and clutch both my fault. Had to get rid of it when I moved to NC in 2012. Only car I've ever owned for 2+ years and wouldve prob still had it if the future wife and I didn't need a cheaper payment to move.

Since that time I've owned numerous trucks/motorcycles and recently got rid of a charger hellcat for a 19 STi. Always missed my WRX since the day I got rid and now with 2 kids still needed a 4 doors. Missed the connected feeling of the subie and dont regret getting back into one.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:42 PM   #45
Brandon21WRX
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I had an 08 Impreza WRX at the time which was completely stock with at least 108k miles. I didn't know anything about a Subaru back then but I did my best keeping that car up to maintenance. It wasn't until I saw the newer generations of the WRX (the years 15+) that made me decide to become a part of the Subaru community.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:38 AM   #46
Kahres05
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My current line up- 2019 WRX premium(map stg1): 2005 WRX wagon(stock, only cat back) 2012 Forester XT (stock): 2017 MX5-RFGT-LE.

The reason I have come back to subaru has been a number of things

1. Value- Where else can you get an Japanese AWD Turbo at this price point?
2. Reliability- Bought my all 3 of my Subarus brand new. The 2005 has 160K on the clock and shows no sign of dying...it has been a rock.
3. Subaru retains it's value better than most.
4. Performance/practical- Subaru AWD is simply one of the best and are fun to drive and it's a car you can just live with.
5. Culture- Even though it's not one of the main reasons I bought the car; it's very cool to be waving at fellow WRX drivers. The same culture follows the MX-5.

Comparing the 2005 and the 2019- clearly night and day. EJ vs. FA. As much as I like 2005 rumble I like the note of the 2019 equally. The EJ's almost tractor like compared to the silky smoothness of the FA motor. The 2005 is so simple mechanically and straight forward and has that "raw" feeling....for those reasons, I can't bring myself to sell it.

The Forester XT is my wife's ride; but is our go to for vacations, it pulls our seadoo speedster 150 (2100lbs with trailer) with ease. The suv is surprisingly quick for a larger car. Currently 54k on the OD and zero problems. It's the last year they made the car with the more robust traditional 4 speed auto trans/ turbo with hood scoop. It's a keeper for sure.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:11 AM   #47
willthetech
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Went to Subaru in 2011. I was going to get a brand new Hyundai 2.0 turbo. When I asked the sales guy what car he thinks I should get, he and some other dude there laughed and said Subaru of course. Got a 2011 legacy that day, never looked back. A Year later my wife got a impreza sport. I just got a 2019 wrx this year and my wife got the new sport forester few weeks ago. There are 4 Subaru’s in the house, all running strong…always reliable.

The WRX has a misleading reputation, everyone thinks this ecobox is a speed monster. I usually explain people what the car really is, but they still tell me they want one, because it looks “cool”…and I am ok with that.

Waiting to see if the new 2021 STIs will come with a FA engine, then maybe I’ll trade in my car for an STI.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:42 AM   #48
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willthetech View Post
The WRX has a misleading reputation, everyone thinks this ecobox is a speed monster. I usually explain people what the car really is, but they still tell me they want one, because it looks “cool”…and I am ok with that.
Blame the hood scoop . . . errr . . . intercooler air inlet for that. The association between things that look like hood scoops and cars having big power is still pretty strong.


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Old 07-09-2019, 01:54 PM   #49
BobaToo
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I feel like the reputation is stuck in the past really. While the modern WRX is not a speed monster, nearly 20 years ago when the bugeye's hit our shores, the WRX could hang with other awd turbocharged sport sedans that cost $15k+ more. Such as the Audi S4. So the reputation was at one time earned. Shoot, it was even as quick the Mustang GT's of that time. Those days are long gone though. WRX's can barely hang with Honda Accords nowadays. Especially if you're driving a manual with rev hang.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:20 PM   #50
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Hummm.. are you new to MT? Accords are considerably slower in comparison.
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