Another ATP GT35R tuned and not happy - Need help

robos4 · 04-24-2010, 10:52 PM

Hi There,

I was hoping you could recommend a solution to my problem..

Im short - I just installed a new ATP GT35R on my 07 STI and made bugga all power even over my old DOM 3...

Previous setup:

DOM 3, APC FMIC, CAI, TIH, IWG,2.4" inlet to turbo, catless dp, CBE (restricted), meth, avcr, fuel pump, 800cc inj, built block with stock heads and the usual stuff..

Made 430whp @ 1.85bar (same dyno made 235whp stock)

New setup:

Smaller FMIC (Blitz), ATP with EWG in up-pipe venting to atmo, Un restricted CBE (DAMN it's loud now), custom 75mm MAF, 3" inlet, bigger fuel pump, FPR, rest is the same

My tuner came back and said he could only get a small increase in power (yet to see dyno sheet as I was running late). He says it's being restricted by the STI heads and cams.. once it hits peak power he said it's just flat all the way to 7k..

Said I must go cosy cams 278 in and 274 out to get maybe 50WHP gain..

I'm just a bit annoyed that I did all this only to gain more lag and not much more up top - I could have sworn people have got more power with stock heads..

No doubt I knew I would be held back by cams and heads but to get no gain... (and I'm running 1.9bar now)

Anyways... Going to book the car in for CAMs and mild port and polish.

Do you think this is going to solve the problem? What else shoudl I do to crack the 500whp?

Thanks in advance
Rob

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DuckStu · 04-24-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robos4

Do you think this is going to solve the problem? What else shoudl I do to crack the 500whp?

Rob

Well,..definately not an ATP 35R. That's nowhere near an actual GT35R power-wise. It uses an older and very small compressor housing in order to fit in the stock location,.. and a questionable hotside housing to fit the Mitsubishi style up-pipe flange.

They seem to make FP Green power with poorer spool.

430 (around there) is the highest numbers I can recall seeing. I would think those are exceptional numbers for that turbo, especially if it's on a Land & Sea or Mustang dyno.

Have you seen this thread?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1976255

juanmedina · 04-24-2010, 11:54 PM

what gas are you running? most rotated 35r put down around 400-420whp on 93oct at 20-22psi. If you want more you need better gas and more boost, you should be able to get low 500whps than the heads and cams will start to limit your power.

here is a nice one, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1964783

GL

robos4 · 04-25-2010, 04:11 AM

Thanks,

There is no doubt my dyno is a high reading dyno (stock gets 235whp), also as mentioned my dom 3 (8cm housing) managed to get 430whp with less boost on same dyno (IWG and 2.4" inlet).. That link you gave - His name is Sime from Melbourne Aus

he is running on one of the toughest Dyno's I have come accross (stock STI's get under 200whp) not to mention he was only running about 1.55bar if I recall.

Either this turbo is not what it cracks up to be or I have a big restriction in my heads.

I am running 93oct and meth with an M10 nozzle.. tuned at around 11.8afr's

jigga · 04-25-2010, 12:11 PM

Exactly which Blitz "smaller" fmic are you currently running? Was it an APS unit you had before? Why the change?

Were you running methanol injection on your previous setup?

robos4 · 04-25-2010, 10:40 PM

Previously I had:

dom 3 (IWG 2.4" inlet) with Hyperflow TMIC (plus meth and all the usual other stuff)
420whp 1.75 bar
full boost by 3600rpm (great setup)

then

dom 3 (IWG 2.4" inlet) with APS 525 FMIC (plus meth) nothign else changed (plus all the usual other stuff)
430whp 1.85 bar boost
Full boost by 4200rpm (felt crap to drive compared to previous setup)

then

ATP gt35r (3" inlet) + EWG venting to atmosphere + larger MAF (75mm) + SRI + increase METH nozzle to M10 + larger fuel pump + FPR + Blitz FMIC
430whp 1.90 bar boost
Full boost by 5100rpm (feels better up top but as my tuner said - power is just flat all the way up top)

The Blitz FMIC I am using gained 15whp over the APS FMIC on a similar car (nothing else changed and tuned by my tuner) - it's very similar to the greddy FMIC

Cheers
Rob

ps. Dyno sheets coming to show comparison on same dyno.. (will take pics of the setup too)

EDIT - Blitz LM type (will take pics on my car soon)

EDIT (again) here is the dyno graph (was slightly off the numbers)

arghx7 · 04-26-2010, 02:02 PM

needs a setup with a larger hotside

Vertical_Lab · 04-27-2010, 10:50 PM

Hi Rob,nice seeing u in here!

Murphdog · 04-28-2010, 03:27 AM

I'm running the ATP GT3582R on my 04 STi with stock heads and cams, and I'm making 443whp 400tq on a Dyno Dynamics. This is with 91 octane, water/meth and 25psi (1.7bar)
Other mods are:
Forged Pistons
DW 850cc, Walbro
APS FMIC
KS Tech 85mm MAF CAI
TGV Deletes
APS 3'' inlet
Tial 44mm EWG
Tuned in Colorado at 5,000ft with Accessport

robos4 · 04-28-2010, 09:10 AM

some pics of my setup:

custom 75mm maf

ewg - vent to atmo:

Maxwell Power · 04-28-2010, 01:12 PM

adding cams to that turbo is going to hurt your power more.
The hotside is too small to efficiently flow the volume of air you need when you add cams.

If you buy some rotated piping and a new exhaust housing you can run that turbo with the kit and make a lot more power.

5100 seems a little late for full boost for that turbo. Are you certain you don't have any boost leaks?

robos4 · 04-28-2010, 10:08 PM

Thanks for your reply,

If I go rotated I would probably get something else, for now I am determined to fix/solve/try with this turbo..

After driving some more:

1st gear = 1.4bar max (ewg doesn't open at all)
2nd gear = 1.75-1.8bar (ewg opens about 5700rpm)
3rd gear = 1.9bar (hit full boost about 5300-5400rpm)

I'm thinking of checking all my hardware next..

Vertical_Lab · 04-29-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robos4

Thanks for your reply,

If I go rotated I would probably get something else, for now I am determined to fix/solve/try with this turbo..

After driving some more:

1st gear = 1.4bar max (ewg doesn't open at all)
2nd gear = 1.75-1.8bar (ewg opens about 5700rpm)
3rd gear = 1.9bar (hit full boost about 5300-5400rpm)

I'm thinking of checking all my hardware next..

What boost controller are u using?Its very normal for the boost to be that low on a sti 6 speeder 1st gear as the load is too low.

Maxwell Power · 04-29-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robos4

Thanks for your reply,

If I go rotated I would probably get something else, for now I am determined to fix/solve/try with this turbo..

After driving some more:

1st gear = 1.4bar max (ewg doesn't open at all)
2nd gear = 1.75-1.8bar (ewg opens about 5700rpm)
3rd gear = 1.9bar (hit full boost about 5300-5400rpm)

I'm thinking of checking all my hardware next..

I've tuned quite a few of these turbos and that is too late. I have 2.1L engines that hit full boost almost 1k rpm sooner than that.
There is a restriction, leak or something wrong. Have you verified that there is no air coming out of your dump tube at idle?

robos4 · 04-30-2010, 07:14 AM

Thanks Maxwell Power,

Update,

Think it may have been a boost leak...

Just checked my GFB Stealth FX (dual port bov) and the spring tension had been turned all the way to the softest setting.

Turned it back like 10 turns to as hard as it goes, car feels better and I also experience boost cut (recorded almost 34psi).

So me thinks I have a boost leak through BOV.

Taking back to tuner.

stay tuned.

ps. Will be picking up a 100% atmo BOV soon.
pps. I run Apexi AVCR boost control.

2gnt2wrx · 04-30-2010, 01:27 PM

In the second picture you have zip ties on an IC charge pipe... Of course its going to leak, I'm surprised it didn't pop off. T-bolt clamp everything you can.

g00fy · 04-30-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2gnt2wrx

In the second picture you have zip ties on an IC charge pipe... Of course its going to leak, I'm surprised it didn't pop off. T-bolt clamp everything you can.

Good eye, i had to look real hard to find those zip ties lol.

Keep us posted on how this goes, i've got an ATP35r sitting in the corner of my office waiting to be installed and i'd like to have an idea how it's gonna perform.

Maxwell Power · 04-30-2010, 02:57 PM

looks like those zip ties are holding a piece of rubber in place to minimize chaffing on the pipe. I don't think they are holding a coupler.

robos4 · 05-01-2010, 12:15 AM

HAHAH WOW man - how long were you looking at that pic? U seriously have a good eye..

Yeah it is just to stop rubbing/chaffing.

But thanks for helping..

Going to buy HKS racing BOV (or Greddy type R) and see what happens.

Car booked in for Tue re-tune..

Can ANYONE tell me what else I shoudl change/add to this setup before the re-tune? I'm thinking of foregoing the filter, MAF and Turbo Inlet Hose and get MAP tune..

Thanks
Rob

2gnt2wrx · 05-01-2010, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robos4

HAHAH WOW man - how long were you looking at that pic? U seriously have a good eye..

Yeah it is just to stop rubbing/chaffing.

But thanks for helping..

Going to buy HKS racing BOV (or Greddy type R) and see what happens.

Car booked in for Tue re-tune..

Can ANYONE tell me what else I shoudl change/add to this setup before the re-tune? I'm thinking of foregoing the filter, MAF and Turbo Inlet Hose and get MAP tune..

Thanks
Rob

You mentioned boost leak and its the first thing I looked at lol

robos4 · 05-01-2010, 10:12 AM

Ok,

Been driving car more now and STILL not happy (even tho BOV seems to be working muh better now).

Spool is a little better but still 3rd gear full boost is about 5600-5700rpm (****).

So been doing some thinking, can anyone tell me if this is apossible cause:

- My IWG was held shut with a bracket made by my mech (can't take a photo as it's under heat sheild). But is it possible it's leaking? Shoudl I just get it welded shut?

- My EWG seems to be opening @ 1.65-1.7bar (in 2nd gear) which seems odd (ohh and thats also about 5700rpm)

- My EWG was placed very far away from the up-pipe (as you can see in my 3rd picture, you can actually see the Tial unit, would all that extra pipe cause that much lag in the up-pipe?

- I think I only have a 1.0bar spring in my EWG (would this be any cause of my problems)?

- It seems no mechanics in Singapore have a boost leak kit, so any suggestions to check if I have a boost leak in I/C or plenum?

Taking to mechanic soon and will have them do all the necissary work before re-tune..

turboge · 05-01-2010, 12:19 PM

You have the EWG after the turbo?

Definately weld the IWG shut if you plan on running EWG full time, this may have a partial leak and could be a cause of later spool. In most cases the late spool points to a leak in the flow to the turbo or flow after the turbo (intercooler piping). In some cases it can be small hoses connected to the intake manifold as well.

I have the ATP 3582R IWG on my 2.5L hybrid (all stock internals) and currently on an STi TMIC until I can get the APS FMIC in there. I see full boost (22psi) in 3rd gear at around 4800-5000 and in 4th at 4400-4500 (2006 STi 6MT).

A built block with STi heads should spool that turbo a little sooner than mine. See Ed's thread here for what your turbo should be doing: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1964783

Here is an unnoficial pic of what my power curve looks like. The lower numbers were on conservative timing, the higher with an additional 4 degrees. You can see the serious restriction my 2L heads with zero work are causing.

robos4 · 05-01-2010, 02:08 PM

Thanks for your post,

Sorry just to clarify - are you an 06 or 02 (and wrx or sti) your sig is what confused me

Also the link you supplied - is that on a 2.0ltr also?

Thats the spool I was expecting on mine..

Interesting to see the major drop off inyour higher revs, I have not seen that ever with this turbo before.

Cheers

Maxwell Power · 05-01-2010, 02:52 PM

I have to ask again, can you feel any air coming out your dump tube at idle?

turboge · 05-01-2010, 02:58 PM

2002 WRX with 2006 STi 6MT
EJ25 bottom end, EJ20 Top end, both stock.

Drop is due to horrible combustion chambers and crap cams with the hybrid setup as it sits. Once I get the CNC heads back with 272's this should look a lot healthier.

04-24-2010, 10:52 PM	#1
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	Another ATP GT35R tuned and not happy - Need help Hi There, I was hoping you could recommend a solution to my problem.. Im short - I just installed a new ATP GT35R on my 07 STI and made bugga all power even over my old DOM 3... Previous setup: DOM 3, APC FMIC, CAI, TIH, IWG,2.4" inlet to turbo, catless dp, CBE (restricted), meth, avcr, fuel pump, 800cc inj, built block with stock heads and the usual stuff.. Made 430whp @ 1.85bar (same dyno made 235whp stock) New setup: Smaller FMIC (Blitz), ATP with EWG in up-pipe venting to atmo, Un restricted CBE (DAMN it's loud now), custom 75mm MAF, 3" inlet, bigger fuel pump, FPR, rest is the same My tuner came back and said he could only get a small increase in power (yet to see dyno sheet as I was running late). He says it's being restricted by the STI heads and cams.. once it hits peak power he said it's just flat all the way to 7k.. Said I must go cosy cams 278 in and 274 out to get maybe 50WHP gain.. I'm just a bit annoyed that I did all this only to gain more lag and not much more up top - I could have sworn people have got more power with stock heads.. No doubt I knew I would be held back by cams and heads but to get no gain... (and I'm running 1.9bar now) Anyways... Going to book the car in for CAMs and mild port and polish. Do you think this is going to solve the problem? What else shoudl I do to crack the 500whp? Thanks in advance Rob * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

04-25-2010, 04:11 AM	#4
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	Thanks, There is no doubt my dyno is a high reading dyno (stock gets 235whp), also as mentioned my dom 3 (8cm housing) managed to get 430whp with less boost on same dyno (IWG and 2.4" inlet).. That link you gave - His name is Sime from Melbourne Aus he is running on one of the toughest Dyno's I have come accross (stock STI's get under 200whp) not to mention he was only running about 1.55bar if I recall. Either this turbo is not what it cracks up to be or I have a big restriction in my heads. I am running 93oct and meth with an M10 nozzle.. tuned at around 11.8afr's Last edited by robos4; 04-25-2010 at 04:20 AM.

04-25-2010, 10:40 PM	#6
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	Previously I had: dom 3 (IWG 2.4" inlet) with Hyperflow TMIC (plus meth and all the usual other stuff) 420whp 1.75 bar full boost by 3600rpm (great setup) then dom 3 (IWG 2.4" inlet) with APS 525 FMIC (plus meth) nothign else changed (plus all the usual other stuff) 430whp 1.85 bar boost Full boost by 4200rpm (felt crap to drive compared to previous setup) then ATP gt35r (3" inlet) + EWG venting to atmosphere + larger MAF (75mm) + SRI + increase METH nozzle to M10 + larger fuel pump + FPR + Blitz FMIC 430whp 1.90 bar boost Full boost by 5100rpm (feels better up top but as my tuner said - power is just flat all the way up top) The Blitz FMIC I am using gained 15whp over the APS FMIC on a similar car (nothing else changed and tuned by my tuner) - it's very similar to the greddy FMIC Cheers Rob ps. Dyno sheets coming to show comparison on same dyno.. (will take pics of the setup too) EDIT - Blitz LM type (will take pics on my car soon) EDIT (again) here is the dyno graph (was slightly off the numbers) Last edited by robos4; 04-26-2010 at 01:23 AM.

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04-24-2010, 11:54 PM	#3
juanmedina Scooby Guru Member#: 133146 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: SC Vehicle: 07 FPgreen [email protected] WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph	what gas are you running? most rotated 35r put down around 400-420whp on 93oct at 20-22psi. If you want more you need better gas and more boost, you should be able to get low 500whps than the heads and cams will start to limit your power. here is a nice one, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1964783 GL

04-25-2010, 12:11 PM	#5
jigga Scooby Guru Member#: 9960 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: in bed... Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX WRBlue Perl	Exactly which Blitz "smaller" fmic are you currently running? Was it an APS unit you had before? Why the change? Were you running methanol injection on your previous setup?

04-26-2010, 02:02 PM	#7
arghx7 Scooby Specialist Member#: 232940 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: cold	needs a setup with a larger hotside

04-27-2010, 10:50 PM	#8
Vertical_Lab Scooby Newbie Member#: 212595 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: International Location: Tsukuba Circuit Vehicle: 2007 WRX STi White	Hi Rob,nice seeing u in here!

04-28-2010, 03:27 AM	#9
Murphdog Scooby Specialist Member#: 75414 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Rock Springs,Wyoming Vehicle: 2004 STi Its the Blue one	I'm running the ATP GT3582R on my 04 STi with stock heads and cams, and I'm making 443whp 400tq on a Dyno Dynamics. This is with 91 octane, water/meth and 25psi (1.7bar) Other mods are: Forged Pistons DW 850cc, Walbro APS FMIC KS Tech 85mm MAF CAI TGV Deletes APS 3'' inlet Tial 44mm EWG Tuned in Colorado at 5,000ft with Accessport

04-28-2010, 09:10 AM	#10
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	some pics of my setup: custom 75mm maf ewg - vent to atmo:

04-28-2010, 01:12 PM	#11
Maxwell Power Former Vendor Member#: 190729 Join Date: Oct 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Marysville, WA	adding cams to that turbo is going to hurt your power more. The hotside is too small to efficiently flow the volume of air you need when you add cams. If you buy some rotated piping and a new exhaust housing you can run that turbo with the kit and make a lot more power. 5100 seems a little late for full boost for that turbo. Are you certain you don't have any boost leaks?

04-28-2010, 10:08 PM	#12
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	Thanks for your reply, If I go rotated I would probably get something else, for now I am determined to fix/solve/try with this turbo.. After driving some more: 1st gear = 1.4bar max (ewg doesn't open at all) 2nd gear = 1.75-1.8bar (ewg opens about 5700rpm) 3rd gear = 1.9bar (hit full boost about 5300-5400rpm) I'm thinking of checking all my hardware next..

04-30-2010, 07:14 AM	#15
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	Thanks Maxwell Power, Update, Think it may have been a boost leak... Just checked my GFB Stealth FX (dual port bov) and the spring tension had been turned all the way to the softest setting. Turned it back like 10 turns to as hard as it goes, car feels better and I also experience boost cut (recorded almost 34psi). So me thinks I have a boost leak through BOV. Taking back to tuner. stay tuned. ps. Will be picking up a 100% atmo BOV soon. pps. I run Apexi AVCR boost control.

04-30-2010, 01:27 PM	#16
2gnt2wrx Scooby Specialist Member#: 123625 Join Date: Aug 2006 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Dover, NH Vehicle: 2015 WRX Galaxy Blue	In the second picture you have zip ties on an IC charge pipe... Of course its going to leak, I'm surprised it didn't pop off. T-bolt clamp everything you can.

04-30-2010, 02:57 PM	#18
Maxwell Power Former Vendor Member#: 190729 Join Date: Oct 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Marysville, WA	looks like those zip ties are holding a piece of rubber in place to minimize chaffing on the pipe. I don't think they are holding a coupler.

05-01-2010, 12:15 AM	#19
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	HAHAH WOW man - how long were you looking at that pic? U seriously have a good eye.. Yeah it is just to stop rubbing/chaffing. But thanks for helping.. Going to buy HKS racing BOV (or Greddy type R) and see what happens. Car booked in for Tue re-tune.. Can ANYONE tell me what else I shoudl change/add to this setup before the re-tune? I'm thinking of foregoing the filter, MAF and Turbo Inlet Hose and get MAP tune.. Thanks Rob

05-01-2010, 10:12 AM	#21
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	Ok, Been driving car more now and STILL not happy (even tho BOV seems to be working muh better now). Spool is a little better but still 3rd gear full boost is about 5600-5700rpm (****). So been doing some thinking, can anyone tell me if this is apossible cause: - My IWG was held shut with a bracket made by my mech (can't take a photo as it's under heat sheild). But is it possible it's leaking? Shoudl I just get it welded shut? - My EWG seems to be opening @ 1.65-1.7bar (in 2nd gear) which seems odd (ohh and thats also about 5700rpm) - My EWG was placed very far away from the up-pipe (as you can see in my 3rd picture, you can actually see the Tial unit, would all that extra pipe cause that much lag in the up-pipe? - I think I only have a 1.0bar spring in my EWG (would this be any cause of my problems)? - It seems no mechanics in Singapore have a boost leak kit, so any suggestions to check if I have a boost leak in I/C or plenum? Taking to mechanic soon and will have them do all the necissary work before re-tune..

05-01-2010, 12:19 PM	#22
turboge Scooby Specialist Member#: 35076 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Austin/Round Rock Vehicle: 2004 507whp Wagon Silver	You have the EWG after the turbo? Definately weld the IWG shut if you plan on running EWG full time, this may have a partial leak and could be a cause of later spool. In most cases the late spool points to a leak in the flow to the turbo or flow after the turbo (intercooler piping). In some cases it can be small hoses connected to the intake manifold as well. I have the ATP 3582R IWG on my 2.5L hybrid (all stock internals) and currently on an STi TMIC until I can get the APS FMIC in there. I see full boost (22psi) in 3rd gear at around 4800-5000 and in 4th at 4400-4500 (2006 STi 6MT). A built block with STi heads should spool that turbo a little sooner than mine. See Ed's thread here for what your turbo should be doing: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1964783 Here is an unnoficial pic of what my power curve looks like. The lower numbers were on conservative timing, the higher with an additional 4 degrees. You can see the serious restriction my 2L heads with zero work are causing.

05-01-2010, 02:08 PM	#23
robos4 Scooby Newbie Member#: 195276 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Singapore Vehicle: 07 STI BLACK	Thanks for your post, Sorry just to clarify - are you an 06 or 02 (and wrx or sti) your sig is what confused me Also the link you supplied - is that on a 2.0ltr also? Thats the spool I was expecting on mine.. Interesting to see the major drop off inyour higher revs, I have not seen that ever with this turbo before. Cheers

05-01-2010, 02:52 PM	#24
Maxwell Power Former Vendor Member#: 190729 Join Date: Oct 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Marysville, WA	I have to ask again, can you feel any air coming out your dump tube at idle?

05-01-2010, 02:58 PM	#25
turboge Scooby Specialist Member#: 35076 Join Date: Apr 2003 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Austin/Round Rock Vehicle: 2004 507whp Wagon Silver	2002 WRX with 2006 STi 6MT EJ25 bottom end, EJ20 Top end, both stock. Drop is due to horrible combustion chambers and crap cams with the hybrid setup as it sits. Once I get the CNC heads back with 272's this should look a lot healthier.