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Old 04-24-2010, 10:52 PM   #1
robos4
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Default Another ATP GT35R tuned and not happy - Need help

Hi There,

I was hoping you could recommend a solution to my problem..

Im short - I just installed a new ATP GT35R on my 07 STI and made bugga all power even over my old DOM 3...

Previous setup:

DOM 3, APC FMIC, CAI, TIH, IWG,2.4" inlet to turbo, catless dp, CBE (restricted), meth, avcr, fuel pump, 800cc inj, built block with stock heads and the usual stuff..

Made 430whp @ 1.85bar (same dyno made 235whp stock)

New setup:

Smaller FMIC (Blitz), ATP with EWG in up-pipe venting to atmo, Un restricted CBE (DAMN it's loud now), custom 75mm MAF, 3" inlet, bigger fuel pump, FPR, rest is the same

My tuner came back and said he could only get a small increase in power (yet to see dyno sheet as I was running late). He says it's being restricted by the STI heads and cams.. once it hits peak power he said it's just flat all the way to 7k..

Said I must go cosy cams 278 in and 274 out to get maybe 50WHP gain..

I'm just a bit annoyed that I did all this only to gain more lag and not much more up top - I could have sworn people have got more power with stock heads..

No doubt I knew I would be held back by cams and heads but to get no gain... (and I'm running 1.9bar now)

Anyways... Going to book the car in for CAMs and mild port and polish.

Do you think this is going to solve the problem? What else shoudl I do to crack the 500whp?

Thanks in advance
Rob
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:38 PM   #2
DuckStu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robos4 View Post

Do you think this is going to solve the problem? What else shoudl I do to crack the 500whp?

Rob


Well,..definately not an ATP 35R. That's nowhere near an actual GT35R power-wise. It uses an older and very small compressor housing in order to fit in the stock location,.. and a questionable hotside housing to fit the Mitsubishi style up-pipe flange.

They seem to make FP Green power with poorer spool.

430 (around there) is the highest numbers I can recall seeing. I would think those are exceptional numbers for that turbo, especially if it's on a Land & Sea or Mustang dyno.

Have you seen this thread?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1976255
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:54 PM   #3
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what gas are you running? most rotated 35r put down around 400-420whp on 93oct at 20-22psi. If you want more you need better gas and more boost, you should be able to get low 500whps than the heads and cams will start to limit your power.

here is a nice one, http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1964783


GL
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:11 AM   #4
robos4
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Thanks,

There is no doubt my dyno is a high reading dyno (stock gets 235whp), also as mentioned my dom 3 (8cm housing) managed to get 430whp with less boost on same dyno (IWG and 2.4" inlet).. That link you gave - His name is Sime from Melbourne Aus he is running on one of the toughest Dyno's I have come accross (stock STI's get under 200whp) not to mention he was only running about 1.55bar if I recall.

Either this turbo is not what it cracks up to be or I have a big restriction in my heads.

I am running 93oct and meth with an M10 nozzle.. tuned at around 11.8afr's

Last edited by robos4; 04-25-2010 at 04:20 AM.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:11 PM   #5
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Exactly which Blitz "smaller" fmic are you currently running? Was it an APS unit you had before? Why the change?

Were you running methanol injection on your previous setup?
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:40 PM   #6
robos4
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Previously I had:

dom 3 (IWG 2.4" inlet) with Hyperflow TMIC (plus meth and all the usual other stuff)
420whp 1.75 bar
full boost by 3600rpm (great setup)

then

dom 3 (IWG 2.4" inlet) with APS 525 FMIC (plus meth) nothign else changed (plus all the usual other stuff)
430whp 1.85 bar boost
Full boost by 4200rpm (felt crap to drive compared to previous setup)

then

ATP gt35r (3" inlet) + EWG venting to atmosphere + larger MAF (75mm) + SRI + increase METH nozzle to M10 + larger fuel pump + FPR + Blitz FMIC
430whp 1.90 bar boost
Full boost by 5100rpm (feels better up top but as my tuner said - power is just flat all the way up top)

The Blitz FMIC I am using gained 15whp over the APS FMIC on a similar car (nothing else changed and tuned by my tuner) - it's very similar to the greddy FMIC

Cheers
Rob

ps. Dyno sheets coming to show comparison on same dyno.. (will take pics of the setup too)

EDIT - Blitz LM type (will take pics on my car soon)



EDIT (again) here is the dyno graph (was slightly off the numbers)

Last edited by robos4; 04-26-2010 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:02 PM   #7
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needs a setup with a larger hotside
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:50 PM   #8
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Hi Rob,nice seeing u in here!
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:27 AM   #9
Murphdog
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I'm running the ATP GT3582R on my 04 STi with stock heads and cams, and I'm making 443whp 400tq on a Dyno Dynamics. This is with 91 octane, water/meth and 25psi (1.7bar)
Other mods are:
Forged Pistons
DW 850cc, Walbro
APS FMIC
KS Tech 85mm MAF CAI
TGV Deletes
APS 3'' inlet
Tial 44mm EWG
Tuned in Colorado at 5,000ft with Accessport
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:10 AM   #10
robos4
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some pics of my setup:


custom 75mm maf

ewg - vent to atmo:
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:12 PM   #11
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adding cams to that turbo is going to hurt your power more.
The hotside is too small to efficiently flow the volume of air you need when you add cams.

If you buy some rotated piping and a new exhaust housing you can run that turbo with the kit and make a lot more power.

5100 seems a little late for full boost for that turbo. Are you certain you don't have any boost leaks?
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:08 PM   #12
robos4
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Thanks for your reply,

If I go rotated I would probably get something else, for now I am determined to fix/solve/try with this turbo..

After driving some more:

1st gear = 1.4bar max (ewg doesn't open at all)
2nd gear = 1.75-1.8bar (ewg opens about 5700rpm)
3rd gear = 1.9bar (hit full boost about 5300-5400rpm)

I'm thinking of checking all my hardware next..
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robos4 View Post
Thanks for your reply,

If I go rotated I would probably get something else, for now I am determined to fix/solve/try with this turbo..

After driving some more:

1st gear = 1.4bar max (ewg doesn't open at all)
2nd gear = 1.75-1.8bar (ewg opens about 5700rpm)
3rd gear = 1.9bar (hit full boost about 5300-5400rpm)

I'm thinking of checking all my hardware next..

What boost controller are u using?Its very normal for the boost to be that low on a sti 6 speeder 1st gear as the load is too low.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:57 PM   #14
Maxwell Power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robos4 View Post
Thanks for your reply,

If I go rotated I would probably get something else, for now I am determined to fix/solve/try with this turbo..

After driving some more:

1st gear = 1.4bar max (ewg doesn't open at all)
2nd gear = 1.75-1.8bar (ewg opens about 5700rpm)
3rd gear = 1.9bar (hit full boost about 5300-5400rpm)

I'm thinking of checking all my hardware next..
I've tuned quite a few of these turbos and that is too late. I have 2.1L engines that hit full boost almost 1k rpm sooner than that.
There is a restriction, leak or something wrong. Have you verified that there is no air coming out of your dump tube at idle?
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:14 AM   #15
robos4
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Thanks Maxwell Power,

Update,

Think it may have been a boost leak...

Just checked my GFB Stealth FX (dual port bov) and the spring tension had been turned all the way to the softest setting.

Turned it back like 10 turns to as hard as it goes, car feels better and I also experience boost cut (recorded almost 34psi).

So me thinks I have a boost leak through BOV.

Taking back to tuner.

stay tuned.

ps. Will be picking up a 100% atmo BOV soon.
pps. I run Apexi AVCR boost control.
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:27 PM   #16
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In the second picture you have zip ties on an IC charge pipe... Of course its going to leak, I'm surprised it didn't pop off. T-bolt clamp everything you can.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:15 PM   #17
g00fy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2gnt2wrx View Post
In the second picture you have zip ties on an IC charge pipe... Of course its going to leak, I'm surprised it didn't pop off. T-bolt clamp everything you can.
Good eye, i had to look real hard to find those zip ties lol.

Keep us posted on how this goes, i've got an ATP35r sitting in the corner of my office waiting to be installed and i'd like to have an idea how it's gonna perform.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:57 PM   #18
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looks like those zip ties are holding a piece of rubber in place to minimize chaffing on the pipe. I don't think they are holding a coupler.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:15 AM   #19
robos4
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HAHAH WOW man - how long were you looking at that pic? U seriously have a good eye..

Yeah it is just to stop rubbing/chaffing.

But thanks for helping..

Going to buy HKS racing BOV (or Greddy type R) and see what happens.

Car booked in for Tue re-tune..

Can ANYONE tell me what else I shoudl change/add to this setup before the re-tune? I'm thinking of foregoing the filter, MAF and Turbo Inlet Hose and get MAP tune..

Thanks
Rob
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:56 AM   #20
2gnt2wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robos4 View Post
HAHAH WOW man - how long were you looking at that pic? U seriously have a good eye..

Yeah it is just to stop rubbing/chaffing.

But thanks for helping..

Going to buy HKS racing BOV (or Greddy type R) and see what happens.

Car booked in for Tue re-tune..

Can ANYONE tell me what else I shoudl change/add to this setup before the re-tune? I'm thinking of foregoing the filter, MAF and Turbo Inlet Hose and get MAP tune..

Thanks
Rob
You mentioned boost leak and its the first thing I looked at lol
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:12 AM   #21
robos4
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Ok,

Been driving car more now and STILL not happy (even tho BOV seems to be working muh better now).

Spool is a little better but still 3rd gear full boost is about 5600-5700rpm (****).

So been doing some thinking, can anyone tell me if this is apossible cause:

- My IWG was held shut with a bracket made by my mech (can't take a photo as it's under heat sheild). But is it possible it's leaking? Shoudl I just get it welded shut?

- My EWG seems to be opening @ 1.65-1.7bar (in 2nd gear) which seems odd (ohh and thats also about 5700rpm)

- My EWG was placed very far away from the up-pipe (as you can see in my 3rd picture, you can actually see the Tial unit, would all that extra pipe cause that much lag in the up-pipe?

- I think I only have a 1.0bar spring in my EWG (would this be any cause of my problems)?

- It seems no mechanics in Singapore have a boost leak kit, so any suggestions to check if I have a boost leak in I/C or plenum?


Taking to mechanic soon and will have them do all the necissary work before re-tune..
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:19 PM   #22
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You have the EWG after the turbo?

Definately weld the IWG shut if you plan on running EWG full time, this may have a partial leak and could be a cause of later spool. In most cases the late spool points to a leak in the flow to the turbo or flow after the turbo (intercooler piping). In some cases it can be small hoses connected to the intake manifold as well.

I have the ATP 3582R IWG on my 2.5L hybrid (all stock internals) and currently on an STi TMIC until I can get the APS FMIC in there. I see full boost (22psi) in 3rd gear at around 4800-5000 and in 4th at 4400-4500 (2006 STi 6MT).

A built block with STi heads should spool that turbo a little sooner than mine. See Ed's thread here for what your turbo should be doing: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1964783

Here is an unnoficial pic of what my power curve looks like. The lower numbers were on conservative timing, the higher with an additional 4 degrees. You can see the serious restriction my 2L heads with zero work are causing.
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:08 PM   #23
robos4
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Thanks for your post,

Sorry just to clarify - are you an 06 or 02 (and wrx or sti) your sig is what confused me

Also the link you supplied - is that on a 2.0ltr also?

Thats the spool I was expecting on mine..

Interesting to see the major drop off inyour higher revs, I have not seen that ever with this turbo before.

Cheers
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:52 PM   #24
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I have to ask again, can you feel any air coming out your dump tube at idle?
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:58 PM   #25
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2002 WRX with 2006 STi 6MT
EJ25 bottom end, EJ20 Top end, both stock.

Drop is due to horrible combustion chambers and crap cams with the hybrid setup as it sits. Once I get the CNC heads back with 272's this should look a lot healthier.
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