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Old 11-29-2020, 06:17 PM   #1
Booki
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Default Bad Wheel bearing?

What are symptoms of bad wheel bearings? I have replaced one before on a suzuki swift, how ever it was quite obvious it was bad - there was excessive play in the wheel when on the left and some noise.

My wheel has no play but i have this loud voom voom voom noise when driving over roughly 50km/h. It sounds like excessive road noise. The noise is pretty constant after increasing speed from 50km/h.

I couldn't feel any play in my wheels, noise still there in neutral/clutch in, doesn't matter about engine RPM, seems to be wheel speed related.

Noise almost goes away when turning right (at speeds 50km/h+).

Noise is the same when turning left (at speeds 50km/h+).

Things I have tried;
Swapped out tyres with another used set - no difference.
Swapped out right hand side front axle with a spare as suspected noise was coming from there - no difference.

Could it be a wheel bearing?
How can I be sure?
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Old 12-01-2020, 04:46 PM   #2
Samurai Jack
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Typically, when you have a bad wheel bearing, it squeals when turning right or left.

Quiet when going straight.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:31 PM   #3
carsebuco
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Take of wheel of suspected side and start turning the wheel bearing. If you hear noise, that's probably it. That's what I did to find mine and I'm getting it replaced as we speak (by a shop)
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:06 PM   #4
Booki
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Ended up being wheel bearings.

Car is nice and quiet now, however Its now triggered P0500 - wheel speed sensor A.

How sensitive are those sensors? Thinking some grease might have gotten on some
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:13 PM   #5
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booki View Post
Ended up being wheel bearings.

Car is nice and quiet now, however Its now triggered P0500 - wheel speed sensor A.

How sensitive are those sensors? Thinking some grease might have gotten on some
If there were metal filings in the grease it is possible.
The reluctor magnets are imbedded in the inner face of the bearing - any metal filings or rust stuck there will cause problems.
Did you remove the ABS sensor before removing the bearing? If not you may have broken the tip of the sensor.

If you used an aftermarket wheel bearing it may not have had the reluctor imbedded in the bearing. This is very rare, but not uncommon if it was a real cheap part.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:28 PM   #6
Booki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbert Bass View Post
If there were metal filings in the grease it is possible.
The reluctor magnets are imbedded in the inner face of the bearing - any metal filings or rust stuck there will cause problems.
Did you remove the ABS sensor before removing the bearing? If not you may have broken the tip of the sensor.

If you used an aftermarket wheel bearing it may not have had the reluctor imbedded in the bearing. This is very rare, but not uncommon if it was a real cheap part.
I coated the inside of the knuckle with some copper anti sieze grease before installing the bearing/hub. Possibly a glob of grease could have went on the sensor.

I used after market bearings, replaced both front left and right sides, considering only one is throwing an error (the A side) I assume the replacement part is OK and its an issue with just the sensor.

I scraped out the bore with a metal brush to quickly remove some rust that had built up, but I definitely did not remove the sensor at all during the process.

Will remove the wheel tonight, the sensor and inspect.

Fingers crossed its not the actual replacement hub, as they were quite cheap. Says NTN Bearings on them but there was no brand.
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Old 12-01-2020, 09:00 PM   #7
Elbert Bass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booki View Post
I coated the inside of the knuckle with some copper anti sieze grease before installing the bearing/hub. Possibly a glob of grease could have went on the sensor.

I used after market bearings, replaced both front left and right sides, considering only one is throwing an error (the A side) I assume the replacement part is OK and its an issue with just the sensor.

I scraped out the bore with a metal brush to quickly remove some rust that had built up, but I definitely did not remove the sensor at all during the process.

Will remove the wheel tonight, the sensor and inspect.

Fingers crossed its not the actual replacement hub, as they were quite cheap. Says NTN Bearings on them but there was no brand.
If you're only getting a code on one of them then it is probably the sensor or contamination. I once had a little fleck of metal 1mm x 1mm stuck on the bearing face throwing code. To see if you have something stuck on the reluctor you will need to pull the axle out of the bearing and look at the inside face of the bearing.
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Old 12-01-2020, 09:05 PM   #8
Booki
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Hopefully it is as simple as that!

Will give it a crack tonight.

Is there an easy way to see which side is A or B?

I can troubleshoot by just unplugging the sensor and see if it throws another code to easily eliminate it, but would be good to know if there is a standard to it - left to right or right to left.

Right hand side being my drivers (aus)
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:47 AM   #9
Booki
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So didn't quite go as planned...

Removed one of the sensors (Drivers side, Right hand side) - noticed it had a very small amount of grease on it, cleaned it it up, put it back in. Cleared the code, started the car. Woo hoo! (or so I thought...) code was gone, car running great and didn't come back.

Took it for a drive, within 500m the code came back

Back to the shed, removed the sensor, checked it again. Still clean, hmmm. Removed the other side, checked it and all good (Cleaned it anyway) - symptoms persist.

Removed the sensors, got the shop back and spun the hub/wheel to try and remove any small amounts of debris - symptoms persist.

The code I am getting is P0500 - VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR A. Figuring I am not sure which side I should be concentrating on, i removed each speed sensor (unplugged from the connector) and was hoping a different code would come up to help isolate it. No difference!

I unplugged both sides and the same code still appeared. P0500.

After some more reading, there is another error code I Can pull with FreeSSM, so i downloaded it, plugged in my cable and read the code.

I Got: Engine sensor failure 1 - Code 64

Now I am completely lost on what it could be;

Could it be my hubs? I am not sure how the hub can effect the sensors, the sensor reads from the axle?

Last edited by Booki; 12-02-2020 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:16 PM   #10
CaptainSlowbaru
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P0500 is an engine code (the P stands for Powertrain). This code sets because the ABS has a code, and the ABS signals the ECM to turn on the CEL.

You'll need to figure out what code is in the ABS mudule- the code(s) will start with a C (the C stands for Chassis). That should hopefully tell you where the problem is.

Whenever I get this code, it's because I ran the car on the lift to listen for a hub bearing noise, and the vehicle speed sensor gets cranky. In those cases it doesn't indicate a problem, but clearing the ECM will never work because the ABS code is still there. To clear the code for good, the ABS code needs to be cleared.
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Old 12-03-2020, 02:23 AM   #11
Booki
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Have been getting a few people tell me that my generic bearings are the issue -

Any idea's as to how or why these could be the cause?

Here is the phot of my original bearing vs the new one I purchased.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/76gtwuna1x...24906.jpg?dl=0
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:50 AM   #12
Elbert Bass
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booki View Post
Have been getting a few people tell me that my generic bearings are the issue -

Any idea's as to how or why these could be the cause?

Here is the phot of my original bearing vs the new one I purchased.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/76gtwuna1x...24906.jpg?dl=0
In the photo: The shiny part just inside the brown ring is where the reluctor is. If there is a metal filling or some other ferrous metal contaminating it you can have issues.
As mentioned you need to see the VDC (ABS) codes which a basic code reader won't show. If you had the capability to read VDC live data you could see the sensor outputs and that would tell you where the problem is. Even better use an oscilloscope to look at the sensor waveforms. Since you don't have that capability you are blind and will have to guess.
If you have not pulled the axles and looked at the reluctors that would be my next step if I were in your situation. If you question whether the bearing has the reluctor you can test with a piece of steel - there are magnets in the reluctor.
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