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Old 08-02-2017, 10:06 PM   #1701
Commander Keen
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I didn't say there was anything wrong with it, I said it's a marketing tool to market to idiots, they're trying to find the best ratio of HP:torque to impress people without making them think "wow that's ****ty torque". If the BRZ had torque anywhere near its HP it would get to 60 a lot faster.
Not being a dick, but you misunderstand torque.

If we double the BRZ's torque and cut its redline and final drive ratio in half, we end up with a car that performs exactly the same as the original, because HP is unchanged.

This is why peak TQ is the marketing fluff junk stat here, not HP.

Quote:
they're trying to find the best ratio of HP:torque to impress people
Torque and HP aren't give and take in engine design. You can't trade one for the other. Quite the opposite - any bump in the torque plot causes a bump in the in the HP plot, the magnitude of which is proportional to RPM.
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Last edited by Commander Keen; 08-02-2017 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:55 PM   #1702
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If you're only talking about bore & stroke, that's exactly what it is. You either have more power or more torque, you can't go one way and increase both, but you can try to balance them to make them equal as would make sense. All HP and no torque doesn't make a fast car just like all torque and no HP doesn't make a fast car. Most of the retardedly fast cars on the market today, at least the well engineered ones, are very close to balance on their hp and lb-ft torque numbers, if a little more torquey.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:27 PM   #1703
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If you're only talking about bore & stroke, that's exactly what it is. You either have more power or more torque, you can't go one way and increase both
Really? Because the BRZ has more power and peak torque than the Impreza despite equal displacement.

Quote:
All HP and no torque doesn't make a fast car
Find me a single example of this. You keep talking about HP and torque as if they're discrete quantities. They are not.

Do you know what the lb and ft quantities represent in a torque measurement?
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:51 PM   #1704
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I don't even know how to continue this. YOU are the one that just said the BRZ makes more power than the Impreza because of its different bore and stroke.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:59 PM   #1705
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Yes, more power AND more torque.

That was in response to this:

Quote:
You either have more power or more torque, you can't go one way and increase both
I also said that you cannot trade power for torque. They are positively, not inversely correlated.

Last edited by Commander Keen; 08-03-2017 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:03 PM   #1706
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I wouldn't call 6 more lb-ft of torque statistically significant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post

I also said that you cannot trade power for torque. They are positively, not inversely correlated.
Explain diesel engines with extremely long stroke and relatively narrow bore then.

I'm not talking about any one specific engine with constraints, I'm talking about an imaginary engine where you could change the bore and stroke but nothing else.

Last edited by drpoop; 08-03-2017 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:56 PM   #1707
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Explain diesel engines with extremely long stroke and relatively narrow bore then.
Apples and pumpkins. Different fuel, totally different combustion characteristics.

Quote:
I'm not talking about any one specific engine with constraints, I'm talking about an imaginary engine where you could change the bore and stroke but nothing else.
It's still a mixed bag. The shorter stroke costs some torque since the crank pins are on a smaller radius, but a larger bore gains torque via larger ports and piston area. In the BRZ's case, it's a net gain.

Quote:
I wouldn't call 6 more lb-ft of torque statistically significant
An FA20 is basically an FB20 with modified bore and stroke, equal displacement and it gains both HP and torque despite its shorter stroke, so my point stands. The difference may only be 6 lb-ft, but it's not in your favor.

Putting stroke and bore aside, your hypothetical BRZ with more torque and the same power, would still not be faster.

Until you research and understand what torque is on a physics level, you won't get why.

Last edited by Commander Keen; 08-03-2017 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:19 AM   #1708
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somehow managed to snap one of my front swaybar endlinks in half this last week. no clue how it happend i don't offroad it or anything, just highway miles.

replaced it with some super beefy ones they had on rockauto, unless there's manufacturing defect no way they'll snap now.

also vinyl wrapped my fuel door.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:16 PM   #1709
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Just bought a 2016 Impreza 2.0 Premium 4dr and read some posts on this forum about the sway bars since I was thinking about them. Was wondering if anyone did the front & back sway bars with the oem wrx/sti bars or the eibach kit? Looking to get the thickest ones possible for best handling...thanks
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:32 PM   #1710
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Thickest does not automatically mean best handling. Keen, flyboy, Charlie, one of you wanna straighten this guy out? I don't have the energy right now.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:00 PM   #1711
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I remember someone went too thick on the rear (22mm?) and pulled it soon after.

I have the 20mm STI rear sway bar on my car now.

The 16mm stock bar understeered through hard corners and straightened out throttle-off.

I can push the car faster through corners with the 20mm. It's neutral when cornering under full throttle in 2nd and the rear squats down, but the throttle-off oversteer can be nasty and gives VDC fits.

Most people's instinct when going through a corner too hot is to let off the throttle. As with 911s, MR2s and motorcycles, doing so gets you into trouble.

Keep in mind that rigidity increases exponentially with size. A 20mm is something like 225% the rigidity of the 16mm. I have no desire to go thicker than 20mm.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:15 AM   #1712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
I remember someone went too thick on the rear (22mm?) and pulled it soon after.

I have the 20mm STI rear sway bar on my car now.

The 16mm stock bar understeered through hard corners and straightened out throttle-off.

I can push the car faster through corners with the 20mm. It's neutral when cornering under full throttle in 2nd and the rear squats down, but the throttle-off oversteer can be nasty and gives VDC fits.

Most people's instinct when going through a corner too hot is to let off the throttle. As with 911s, MR2s and motorcycles, doing so gets you into trouble.

Keep in mind that rigidity increases exponentially with size. A 20mm is something like 225% the rigidity of the 16mm. I have no desire to go thicker than 20mm.
Found the 20mm off a 2016 WRX with end links for $80. So my question is do I need to buy anything else to have them installed properly? Bushings etc or can I use the ones I already have? Also is there any benefit to switching the front bar out as well with the sti one? Thanks in advance!

Last edited by SubieImpreza2016; 08-11-2017 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:15 AM   #1713
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You can keep the stock end links but not the bushings.

As for the front, I haven't upgraded so I can't comment.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:27 AM   #1714
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
You can keep the stock end links but not the bushings.

As for the front, I haven't upgraded so I can't comment.
Hmmm so I just have to buy bushings with it. Any recommended ones or better yet do u have the link for the ones u got?
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:25 PM   #1715
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Anything except whiteline's greaseless bushings. They're bull**** and they fall apart after a year and a half.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:40 PM   #1716
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Not 100% sure, but it should be P/N 20464VA000.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:40 PM   #1717
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Guys I found a deal online for the front & rear sway bars off a 2011 sti both for only $50 locally (used for only 5k miles). Wondering if i should get that or just the rear off the 16 sti for $80. I did notice the 2011 rear is 19mm and the 16 is 20mm.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:33 PM   #1718
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I don't know about the 2016 WRX but I know the older ones had a different front subframe and the front sway bars aren't really compatible.
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Old 08-18-2017, 05:48 PM   #1719
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Bat**** crazy hypothetical;

FA engines are pretty much the same in size and shape as the FB, right? But do they use the same motor mounts? If they do, then wouldn't it be hypothetically possible to swap an FA engine, trans, ecu, the whole shebang... into a n/a Impreza with some sort of magically fabricated/sourced shorter/longer driveshaft that connects to the factory Impreza rear diff/axel's and then have a rwd Impreza with ~ 200hp that looks stock?

I know it's impractical and would just be cheaper to buy a wrx, but can it be done relatively easily? Or would it take insane amounts of fabrication and custom parts?
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:26 PM   #1720
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You can swap whatever the **** you want into an Impreza engine bay. People have swapped V8s and at least one V10 into a WRX/STI before.
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Old 08-18-2017, 07:36 PM   #1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpoop View Post
You can swap whatever the **** you want into an Impreza engine bay. People have swapped V8s and at least one V10 into a WRX/STI before.
I guess the question is more whether I would need to have anything custom other than the driveshaft. Like, does Subaru already make parts I can use.
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:57 AM   #1722
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Finally got around to installing a Whiteline RSB + braces along with KB endlinks that have been sitting around for nearly 4 months.

This is an older version that included a synthetic elastomer bushing and clamp design for lateral locks, and they didn't work all that well to keep the bar from shifting. Added a hose clamp to each side, and they seem to be working very well.
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Old 08-20-2017, 06:11 PM   #1723
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Originally Posted by Invisible3mpire View Post
Finally got around to installing a Whiteline RSB + braces along with KB endlinks that have been sitting around for nearly 4 months.

This is an older version that included a synthetic elastomer bushing and clamp design for lateral locks, and they didn't work all that well to keep the bar from shifting. Added a hose clamp to each side, and they seem to be working very well.
Are the braces worth the money (would you have the item number or model year for them)? Hmm I've always been interested in picking some up.

These are the Whiteline rear swaybar mount support braces correct? Just wanted to make sure I'm searching for the right thing.

Last edited by pkL; 08-20-2017 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 08-20-2017, 11:45 PM   #1724
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Originally Posted by pkL View Post
Are the braces worth the money (would you have the item number or model year for them)? Hmm I've always been interested in picking some up.

These are the Whiteline rear swaybar mount support braces correct? Just wanted to make sure I'm searching for the right thing.
Yup, you're searching the correct part. I don't have a PN for these since I got them used, but the seller mentioned he bought the kit in 2009 and I'm 99.9% sure nothing has changed about these braces since.

Don't think I'd spend the $70 on these new, but if you can find them locally, definitely go for itI got everything minus the endlinks for $80.

Also forgot to mention this is 22mm adjustable, currently on the medium setting.
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Old 08-21-2017, 12:59 AM   #1725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invisible3mpire View Post
Yup, you're searching the correct part. I don't have a PN for these since I got them used, but the seller mentioned he bought the kit in 2009 and I'm 99.9% sure nothing has changed about these braces since.

Don't think I'd spend the $70 on these new, but if you can find them locally, definitely go for itI got everything minus the endlinks for $80.

Also forgot to mention this is 22mm adjustable, currently on the medium setting.
And you have no issues with 22mm being too stiff?
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