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Old 09-24-2016, 06:30 PM   #51
Dave D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Dave D 20g isn't a normal and is probably one of the biggest ones you can get and his still falls over after 7k
If you are talking about the very sudden drop at the very end, that is the rev limiter setting. Not to say it would maintain the hp for much longer anyway.
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Old 09-24-2016, 06:52 PM   #52
tehnation
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Nothing wrong with flat! I'd prefer that to a sudden drop.

Guess its best to jump in and see how things go lol!
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Old 09-25-2016, 08:24 PM   #53
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Engine wise yours should be fine for your goals from what I gather from the bottom end. Only thing i didn't notice is if your doing oversize valves or porting? Both are very helpful for rpm baised power imo.

Like others have said the turbo likely wont hold uptop and the tune is key. My setup peaks at 7500-7900 depending on fuel choice and is similar to the motor you have described you plan to build in the thread with 1mm over valves and slightly lower cr at 8:1. Main thing I attribute my car holding power uptop to is the balanced engine setup and the gtx3076 im running.
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Old 09-25-2016, 10:26 PM   #54
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What fueling? Are we talking octane or e85? I'm curious as to what 93 octane gets you! That's what every station around here has, 87-89-93.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:19 AM   #55
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Your going have an even harder time accomplishing your goals on 93....id go e85 if it's not too far from you or look into alky injection kits
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:17 AM   #56
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My 92 tune made peak power at 7500rpm and the 101 kept climbing until 7900rpm. I had a softer tune on 92 that gained more until 8k but that was 20whp ish less at peak than the current tune and 15-25whp across the board.

I stepped up injectors to ID1300's (ID1000's hit 100% at 8k) and changed a few things over last winter/this summer so I will toss it on a dyno and re-tune it again soon.
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Old 09-26-2016, 04:21 PM   #57
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Any dyno graphs ?
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:18 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehnation View Post
Any dyno graphs ?
Old ones in my build thread, the current ones I don't other than a VD I think. But I will send you the new ones when I hit the dyno again in a few weeks or so if you want.

Here is the VD I took last summer before I made the changes I mentioned in order to fix my lack of fuel up top:

92(blue) vs. 101(red) by Bret Stevens, on Flickr

Car runs 11.6@118 with '04 STi gears (so it needs 5th above 112-114) and does 50-100 in 4.4 sec
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:45 PM   #59
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I find it interesting no one is talking about the appropriate sized a/r hotside on these turbos.

On my 3576, with its .85 hotside, it ran 615 whp and ran out of steam at 7kish. The motor is built around spinning over 8k. Pw intake manifold, large ports, large valves, big lift cam...
But the back end of the turbo couldn't keep up.

The 4088 has a .99 hotside. That should help.

When I get done with its purpose, I will through a 3076 with a larger hotside, close to or over a 1.0 to get it to build/hold power up in the rpms.
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Old 09-26-2016, 06:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
I find it interesting no one is talking about the appropriate sized a/r hotside on these turbos.

On my 3576, with its .85 hotside, it ran 615 whp and ran out of steam at 7kish. The motor is built around spinning over 8k. Pw intake manifold, large ports, large valves, big lift cam...
But the back end of the turbo couldn't keep up.

The 4088 has a .99 hotside. That should help.

When I get done with its purpose, I will through a 3076 with a larger hotside, close to or over a 1.0 to get it to build/hold power up in the rpms.
That's because the OP already has a turbo he plans to run, right now he just wanted to be 100% sure the way he has his motor built will handle running to 8k without a high rpm bottleneck such as the wrong cams.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:09 PM   #61
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ahhhh. copy that. I figure that a hotside would be as equal as important as a hot cam. You can run a 272 with tons of lift and good springs, but the turbine just wont spin any more.
A proper hot side might just help force the way through them pesky valves.

Anyone bring up proper oiling ability in a stock crankshaft vs the manley etc with the better oil holes?
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:56 PM   #62
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Oiling: Interesting point. I did nothing to my new OEM crank and OEM bearings (including the rod bearings).

I preferred tight for engine longevity, but wondered.

.0018 on the rods and .001-.0012 on the mains.

I didn't feel I'm in a region that modifying the oiling system was required...although I don't know when that would be.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:01 PM   #63
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I love that curve!
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:02 PM   #64
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Turbos and injectors are bolt on's, so i'm not really worried. Most important thing is the longblock. Everything else is a saturday afternoon. I'm going stock tolerances for everything.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:07 PM   #65
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And that curve is on 1000cc injectors? Thats impressive. Can't wait to see it with 1300cc.
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Old 09-26-2016, 08:28 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Go View Post
Oiling: Interesting point. I did nothing to my new OEM crank and OEM bearings (including the rod bearings).

I preferred tight for engine longevity, but wondered.

.0018 on the rods and .001-.0012 on the mains.

I didn't feel I'm in a region that modifying the oiling system was required...although I don't know when that would be.
I'm not too well versed on the subject, but something about the stock crank oil galley holes being straight vs angled/chamfered or something.
I can't remember now. I'm certain it's been covered here somewhere.
Something about the oilnot being able to move after a certain rotational moment.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:27 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehnation View Post
And that curve is on 1000cc injectors? Thats impressive. Can't wait to see it with 1300cc.
Correct: ID1000's, stock FPR, wally 250 in tank and the Perrin surge tank (not 100% sure in the pump used). I am looking forward to it as well!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
I'm not too well versed on the subject, but something about the stock crank oil galley holes being straight vs angled/chamfered or something.
I can't remember now. I'm certain it's been covered here somewhere.
Something about the oilnot being able to move after a certain rotational moment.
That is correct from my memory.

I run a stock crank and oem oil pump, nothing special other than a gauge to keep an eye on everything and the dreaded mobil 1 5w-30 everyone on here claims is "basically water" LOL. No issues and been running it hard for 20k+ miles seeing 8k rpm everyday, hell most of my shifting is done up there. LOL
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:13 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehnation View Post
I love that curve!
it is a nice curve!! One thing to keep in mind is on VDs the curve usually holds out longer VS a regular rolling dyno (Dynojet, mustang, DD, Ect)
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:59 PM   #69
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just noticed!
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Old 09-27-2016, 07:02 PM   #70
Scuby04STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
it is a nice curve!! One thing to keep in mind is on VDs the curve usually holds out longer VS a regular rolling dyno (Dynojet, mustang, DD, Ect)
That's the odd thing, I think it was slightly up hill because on the rolling dyno it climbed more clearly and linearly without the leveling off but with lower #'s overall.

Regardless VD is not the best example, as ill pass along the rolling dyno info once I get around to firing it back up and getting my re-tune.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:22 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehnation View Post
just noticed!
Here are a few graphs from just two days ago on PSI's dyno (dynojet).

Pump 92@21psi:

Pump_gas by Bret Stevens, on Flickr

101@24: (fixed the boost spike on another pull but saved the wrong one)

110_octane by Bret Stevens, on Flickr

116@26psi (in 3rd gear not 4th like the others clutch slipped once it ramped up boost):

116 octane by Bret Stevens, on Flickr

These should help more than my VD stuff.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:13 PM   #72
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For the 92 octane what was your idc? And this is 1300cc injectors?
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Old 10-22-2016, 11:15 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehnation View Post
For the 92 octane what was your idc? And this is 1300cc injectors?
I can look into it once i switch back to pump gas, still need to enjoy the last of the 116 lol. Correct 1300's but the 1000's didn't limit anything before i swapped over i just didn't like being at the upper limits of anything. I really aimed for balance on my build and safe tuning limits.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:09 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
Here's a case in point. My 20g-xtr build has all the forged goodies and exhaust cams. I'm sure it would run to 8k but my tuner told me there would be not much point, as shifting above 7200 puts me well above the max tq rpm as well.

That's pretty close to what my GT3076 does, with the power curve leveling off just before the rev limiter hits. (Though you've got more power.) I'm still itching to be able to wind it out to 8k with my new motor.

I'm sure power will taper, but shifting gears drops wheel torque by quite a bit, so I'm not at all convinced that shifting at 7200 is accelerating me faster than staying in gear a while longer would.

And even if it isn't faster for drag racing I'm sure it'll be more fun at track days to be able to stay in gear longer here and there. 4k-7k is a pretty small powerband, I don't know how people put up with bigger turbos.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:09 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I'm sure power will taper, but shifting gears drops wheel torque by quite a bit, so I'm not at all convinced that shifting at 7200 is accelerating me faster than staying in gear a while longer would.

And even if it isn't faster for drag racing I'm sure it'll be more fun at track days to be able to stay in gear longer here and there. 4k-7k is a pretty small powerband, I don't know how people put up with bigger turbos.
That's where my jdm close-ratio 6-speed makes my car really fun to drive. Maybe not the best for drag racing, but keeps me in the powerband at all times, and the 3k peak powerband allows me to hold a gear if I need to. Hoping to autocross this spring -- could probably run it all in 3rd, given my novice driving level.
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