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Old 08-05-2011, 06:05 PM   #2351
chanomatik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatfil View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but you may not be converting it properly as there are imperial gallons and us gallons
I was wondering... The numbers seemed to be off by about 6-7 gallons.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:59 PM   #2352
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Default Drove the 2012 Impreza.

I just got back from the 2011 Subaru National Business conference. Yesterday I did a ride-and-drive of the 2012 Impreza. My thoughts::

Background: I'm a long time auto enthusiast and experienced autocrosser. My daily driver is a 2006 WRX and my wife drives a 2008 2.5i premium sedan so I have quite a bit of perspective on the last two previous generation Imprezas. This ride-and-drive was held in a large parking lot and consisted of 3 driving stations, each with a very short course meant to highlight one or two dynamic features. These are quick impressions, formed without the benefit of much time behind the wheel or any time driving the car on real roads in real-world traffic.

Powertrain performance: One station was a ~400' drag strip where 2011 and 2012 Impeza's ran side-by-side. You got to drive once in each car. Unfortunately it was restricted to automatic transmission cars. With the auto, it was pretty much a toss-up. In general, whoever cut the best light won. If the two cars got the same launch they were neck-and-neck all the way. I was pleasantly surprised with the 2.0. It felt more powerful than I expected and revved very smoothly. The CVT obviously helps performance compared to the old 4EAT. I'm told the 2012 manual cars will have "gearing adjustments" compared to the 2011's so I would expect the results would be similar, if not exactly the same. Overall, I'd guess most people who thought the 2.5i performed well enough will think this performs well enough and those who think this is too slow would probably think the same of the 2.5i. It will be a thin segment of people, in my opinion, who would find the actual performance of then new 2.0 objectionable but the current 2.5 satisfactory.

Handling: This car handles substantially better than the current 2.5i. There is less body roll, helped no doubt by the standard rear sway bar. Grip, at least with the 17" alloy wheel package which all the test cars had, seems improved. All the test cars had Yokohama Avid S34s; there wasn't an RE92 to be found anywhere! The steering assist is now electric instead of hydraulic. There is a little less feel, but the steering is very accurate and rather quick. Not crazy-quick like in a MINI Cooper or EVO VIII, but certainly quicker than in my WRX. One benefit of the electric steering is that there is no cavitation in the rack on quick back-to-back transitions, something I sometimes encounter when autocrossing my WRX. Because of the quick ratio and lack of cavitation, the new Impreza zipped through a tight multi-cone slalom in a very impressive fashion. I wish it were this easy in my WRX. As expected in this segment, the terminal attitude is moderate understeer. One station included a tight-ish 180 on wet pavement. The front started to wash out a bit, but the stability control came in subtly and kept the push to a minimum without impeding the progress. The slalom station had a very tight decreasing-radius 180 on dry pavement. Understeer was more pronounced here, although I'm not sure anything short of a compact RWD sports car like a miata would have been able to get though that without noticeable push.

Styling: I'm generally biased towards hatches. I like the hatch of the current Impreza better than the sedan. My initial impression of the PICTURES of the new Impreza had me more excited about the hatch. I thought the sedan looked like an improvement, but nothing remarkable. In 3-D sheet metal, however, the sedan came off as the more handsome of the two. It's not exactly stunning, but its much more attractive than the baby-Legacy impression it makes when seen in pics. The hatch is more "square" at the back than the current model; this gives it better cargo capacity but it makes it look a little chunkier than the sedan. I like them both, but think the sedan will be the choice of the vast majority of buyers. Inside this will be the nicest Subaru available; not only nicer than the current Impreza but nicer even than the Legacy/Outback. Gone is the hard-plastic on the dash and top of the door cards. Materials are top-notch, and the styling is attractive. Some of the cars had leather which felt quite rich. The cars with cloth seats had a "sport mesh" fabric like that found in the GD RS/WRX. Styling is obviously subjective, but I think most shoppers are going to find the new car much more attractive than the current version.

Other Notes: What we drove I think were "premium" and "limited" trims. There were not any "base" models to drive or even see. I did get to see (but not drive) a few "Sport" trim hatches. The "Outback" half of the moniker has apparently been dropped. One was all-silver (like has been shown in the press photographs), and there were a couple two-tones; Green over silver and carbon black over dark grey.

Base pricing on the new Impreza will be surprisingly competitive. Can't say the exact number but I can say it will be very close to the current price. Will have to wait and see what the optioned up versions cost. Expect the very first ones to hit dealers in late November, and significant ground stock to be established by early Feb.

I also got a quick look at a production-spec RWD sport coupe. I can't say much other than it look very good in a mini-Maserati kind of way. Forget the plexiglass show car, those are not the lines at all. Its much sexier. I'm in love and really want one to compliment my WRX.

I have some pics if anyone is willing to host them. (Of the Imprezas, not the coupe. There was a strict no-photo policy at the couple unveil)

Last edited by gary p; 08-05-2011 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:25 PM   #2353
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Wow, great post. Thanks for the impressions!
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:32 PM   #2354
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Thanks for the review, it was very informative and well written.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:57 PM   #2355
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not sure if it's been said but PLEASE give the new Impreza better tires than the Potenza RE92A's (the OE tires on the current gen)
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:07 PM   #2356
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I have been clamoring for news on this car. With the video link posted to the Canadian version and this fantastic write up by gary p - i want more now
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:14 PM   #2357
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Great post! Thanks for taking the time and writing it up. The lack of excitement I had after seeing the Canadian video is gone. I'm back to looking forward to this and cant wait to test drive it.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:17 PM   #2358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Help I'm Stuck! View Post
not sure if it's been said but PLEASE give the new Impreza better tires than the Potenza RE92A's (the OE tires on the current gen)
4th Paragraph: Yokohama Avid S34s

Thanks for the write up! Now I'm even MORE excited about the RWD coupe!

And oddly excited about the 2012 Impreza that I'm only vaguely interested in only because I heart 200+HP at this point in my life (and budget). Otherwise I'd snatch one up, no-brainer.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:20 PM   #2359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
4th Paragraph: Yokohama Avid S34s
Thanks for the heads up I feel like a moron by not reading thoroughly
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:27 PM   #2360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Help I'm Stuck! View Post
Thanks for the heads up I feel like a moron by not reading thoroughly
It's cool! It's the end of the day at the end of the week. We shouldn't be expected to be at peak performance! For shame.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:50 PM   #2361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
4th Paragraph: Yokohama Avid S34s

Thanks for the write up! Now I'm even MORE excited about the RWD coupe!

And oddly excited about the 2012 Impreza that I'm only vaguely interested in only because I heart 200+HP at this point in my life (and budget). Otherwise I'd snatch one up, no-brainer.

Well I'm excited for Subaru to be getting a sleek RWD in their lineup but for me, RWD is definitely a no no! Maybe if I had two cars sure but I don't want to ever go through a winter again in RWD car. I had a Mustang...and I'm glad those days are over.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:01 PM   #2362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I was wondering... The numbers seemed to be off by about 6-7 gallons.
I did some calculations and I think that's right. Check my math though:

(5.5 L / 100 km) * (1 Gallon / 3.785 L) * (1.61 km / 1 mile) = (8.855 Gallons / 378.5 miles)

Flip that and divide and you get 42.7 MPG.
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:42 PM   #2363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary p View Post
I just got back from the 2011 Subaru National Business conference. Yesterday I did a ride-and-drive of the 2012 Impreza. My thoughts::

Background: I'm a long time auto enthusiast and experienced autocrosser. My daily driver is a 2006 WRX and my wife drives a 2008 2.5i premium sedan so I have quite a bit of perspective on the last two previous generation Imprezas. This ride-and-drive was held in a large parking lot and consisted of 3 driving stations, each with a very short course meant to highlight one or two dynamic features. These are quick impressions, formed without the benefit of much time behind the wheel or any time driving the car on real roads in real-world traffic.

Powertrain performance: One station was a ~400' drag strip where 2011 and 2012 Impeza's ran side-by-side. You got to drive once in each car. Unfortunately it was restricted to automatic transmission cars. With the auto, it was pretty much a toss-up. In general, whoever cut the best light won. If the two cars got the same launch they were neck-and-neck all the way. I was pleasantly surprised with the 2.0. It felt more powerful than I expected and revved very smoothly. The CVT obviously helps performance compared to the old 4EAT. I'm told the 2012 manual cars will have "gearing adjustments" compared to the 2011's so I would expect the results would be similar, if not exactly the same. Overall, I'd guess most people who thought the 2.5i performed well enough will think this performs well enough and those who think this is too slow would probably think the same of the 2.5i. It will be a thin segment of people, in my opinion, who would find the actual performance of then new 2.0 objectionable but the current 2.5 satisfactory.

Handling: This car handles substantially better than the current 2.5i. There is less body roll, helped no doubt by the standard rear sway bar. Grip, at least with the 17" alloy wheel package which all the test cars had, seems improved. All the test cars had Yokohama Avid S34s; there wasn't an RE92 to be found anywhere! The steering assist is now electric instead of hydraulic. There is a little less feel, but the steering is very accurate and rather quick. Not crazy-quick like in a MINI Cooper or EVO VIII, but certainly quicker than in my WRX. One benefit of the electric steering is that there is no cavitation in the rack on quick back-to-back transitions, something I sometimes encounter when autocrossing my WRX. Because of the quick ratio and lack of cavitation, the new Impreza zipped through a tight multi-cone slalom in a very impressive fashion. I wish it were this easy in my WRX. As expected in this segment, the terminal attitude is moderate understeer. One station included a tight-ish 180 on wet pavement. The front started to wash out a bit, but the stability control came in subtly and kept the push to a minimum without impeding the progress. The slalom station had a very tight decreasing-radius 180 on dry pavement. Understeer was more pronounced here, although I'm not sure anything short of a compact RWD sports car like a miata would have been able to get though that without noticeable push.

Styling: I'm generally biased towards hatches. I like the hatch of the current Impreza better than the sedan. My initial impression of the PICTURES of the new Impreza had me more excited about the hatch. I thought the sedan looked like an improvement, but nothing remarkable. In 3-D sheet metal, however, the sedan came off as the more handsome of the two. It's not exactly stunning, but its much more attractive than the baby-Legacy impression it makes when seen in pics. The hatch is more "square" at the back than the current model; this gives it better cargo capacity but it makes it look a little chunkier than the sedan. I like them both, but think the sedan will be the choice of the vast majority of buyers. Inside this will be the nicest Subaru available; not only nicer than the current Impreza but nicer even than the Legacy/Outback. Gone is the hard-plastic on the dash and top of the door cards. Materials are top-notch, and the styling is attractive. Some of the cars had leather which felt quite rich. The cars with cloth seats had a "sport mesh" fabric like that found in the GD RS/WRX. Styling is obviously subjective, but I think most shoppers are going to find the new car much more attractive than the current version.

Other Notes: What we drove I think were "premium" and "limited" trims. There were not any "base" models to drive or even see. I did get to see (but not drive) a few "Sport" trim hatches. The "Outback" half of the moniker has apparently been dropped. One was all-silver (like has been shown in the press photographs), and there were a couple two-tones; Green over silver and carbon black over dark grey.

Base pricing on the new Impreza will be surprisingly competitive. Can't say the exact number but I can say it will be very close to the current price. Will have to wait and see what the optioned up versions cost. Expect the very first ones to hit dealers in late November, and significant ground stock to be established by early Feb.

I also got a quick look at a production-spec RWD sport coupe. I can't say much other than it look very good in a mini-Maserati kind of way. Forget the plexiglass show car, those are not the lines at all. Its much sexier. I'm in love and really want one to compliment my WRX.

I have some pics if anyone is willing to host them. (Of the Imprezas, not the coupe. There was a strict no-photo policy at the couple unveil)
Excellent write-up. Thanks, and I concur with your comments/conclusions about the upgraded interior.

Bob

Last edited by rsholland; 08-05-2011 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:04 PM   #2364
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You mean Subaru's version of the coupe won't have giant fog lights?
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:32 PM   #2365
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gary p, you rock.

Excellent write-up... really the most info we've gotten so far.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:41 PM   #2366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary p View Post
I just got back from the 2011 Subaru National Business conference. Yesterday I did a ride-and-drive of the 2012 Impreza.
Thanks a ton for your post. Pretty much confirms what most of us know, but others are denying... This is a MUCH better car in every way.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:51 PM   #2367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Thanks a ton for your post. Pretty much confirms what most of us know, but others are denying... This is a MUCH better car in every way.
Well put, sir.

Now we just need to convince gary to spill the beans on the coupe. All I wanna know is how close is the sheet metal to anything Toyota is showing? But that's for another thread. Stop by the ft86 sometime gary.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:38 PM   #2368
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Originally Posted by Bluefoton View Post
^ yeah. but unless there are heaps of unsold cars at the dealers, they have NO incentive to match the prices down.
They don't have to, we can always drive south of the border and get one.
USA dealers will even complete all the paper work for you, all you have to do is to show up with cash :-/
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:18 AM   #2369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary p View Post
[snip] The steering assist is now electric instead of hydraulic. [snip]
Good review, thank you; can not wait to test drive one.

How reliable are those "steer-by-wire" at -40C/F or after 20-years of service?
With hydraulic one, if it goes down I still can steer it. But with electric one will it be more reliable that the good old hydraulic one after 20-years?
What will happen if one wire is corroded and the backup one fails?
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:56 AM   #2370
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Electric assist steering isn't mechanically disconnected, nor is hydraulic-assisted steering.

There is still a mechanical worm gear connecting the steering column to the tie rods, through the steering rack.

Hydraulic assist boost the effectiveness, and lessens the effort. Electric assist does the same thing without a hydraulic circuit, but with an electric motor/servo mounted to the steering rack to boost effectiveness and lessen effort.

But the mechanical link is not severed.

I am interested to see electric assist steering actually branch out into electric-assist and computer-controlled 4-wheel-steering, which would be much less complex to install than hydraulic or mechanically linked 4WS. In that case, the rear axle steering rack would be "steer-by-wire" based on the behavior of the electro/mechanical front steering rack.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:37 AM   #2371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary p View Post
I can't say much other than it look very good in a mini-Maserati kind of way. Forget the plexiglass show car, those are not the lines at all. Its much sexier. I'm in love and really want one to compliment my WRX.
What is the plexiglass show car you speak of? Apart from the Toyota version making the rounds I haven't seen anything of the Subaru version.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:03 AM   #2372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
What is the plexiglass show car you speak of? Apart from the Toyota version making the rounds I haven't seen anything of the Subaru version.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2141912
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:04 AM   #2373
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Thanks for the writeup.

What is meant by 'cavitation' in reference to steering?
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:05 AM   #2374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary p View Post
Lots of good info
Thanks gary p. I am more interested than ever. More fun, better interior, comparable cargo space, MUCH better MPG than my Forester. Hello Guaranteed Trade In program.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:23 AM   #2375
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Thanks for shedding some objective light on the subject of the new Impreza Gary.
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