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Old 07-22-2006, 01:05 PM   #101
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...bend over!
Won't be the first time, nor the last.
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Old 07-22-2006, 02:20 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by flycaster
Aren't they also the largest distributor for Garrett turbos? (and if that's what you meant, just kick me.)
Haha....yeah that's what I meant. Garrett doesn't really have a wholly owned 'sales' arm. Well, they may own part of ATP or some of their named distributors but I don't think so. Instead, they've set up a network of aftermarket, oem, and various distribution points that they move their product through. Just look at their website and they're all displayed there.

It's a cluster fu*k of a system IMHO. There are too many layers and then those layers end up competing. Nobody can ever beat a distributorís price though if the distributor does not want that to happen. Generally, the distributors don't compete against there customers as there market and opportunity is large enough not to do that. Besides, their built in profit is much higher since they're direct to Garrett. Ultimately, distributors like ATP and Limit can and do guide Garrett in development on new products.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:17 PM   #103
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I was reading through this thread, and there is a lot of interesting information. After perusing the Garrett site, I decided to run through some of the equations presented on the site to see what turbo I could use to push a 2.0L motor to 500 HP...

Please note: I do not claim that any of these numbers are exact, or that I know what I'm doing. I was just trying to get a baseline of what I would need...

My math:

Wa = 500 HP * 11.9 AFR * 0.55 BSFC / 60 = 54.54 lb/min compressor (minimum)

Req. MAP = (54.54 lb/min * 639.6 * (460 + 130 degrees F)) / (0.92 VE * 7500 RPM / 2 * 122)
= 48.9 psig (34.2 psig)

PR = 3.72

(I estimated BSFC and VE based on information I found on the web, so I could definitely be wrong)

Now, the boost doesn't really bother me, but the PR does. Based on the PR and boost, a GT4088R is the only turbo I could find that would fit the bill. I was originally looking at a GT35R w/.82 AR ex housing, but according to the math, the PR I would need to run would blow up the turbo

What am I doing wrong? I tried to run the Req. MAP equation using a larger compressor, but the pressure ratios got even larger.
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Old 07-24-2006, 05:19 PM   #104
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bump for a response.
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:43 PM   #105
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Everything looks right accept the Pr, you should have divided by 13.7 or so... The equations are starting points, and usually not right on... Not sure which turbo to tell you to use, I know a 30r .82 will max out at that on a 2.5 (WHP), but I would think you would need a little more on a 2.0... At least a 35r .82 would be my guess..
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Old 07-25-2006, 09:53 PM   #106
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You can play around with these calcs.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/javacalc.html

On a 2.0 engine at 30 psi you would need to rev to 7800-8000 rpm to make 500hp crank. In just about all cases it suggests the GT30/.82 turbo.

Whats interesting is that out of the two calculators I have tried they never suggest using the .63 housing on the GT30 turbos. They go from the GT25 440hp turbo(not a good performer on the Boxer motor) with a big turbine to a GT30 with the .82 and then to the 1.06 at very high boost pressures. FOr example choose 2400 for the 2.5ltr motor, Intercooler yes, gasoline, 24 psi. Then change to 26 psi and so on. Even on the 1.8 ltr motor it does not suggest using the small turbine housing. I ran the numbers on the flow rates of the .63 for turbine flow against compressor flow and the .82 and 1.06. The .63 is really much lower flowing. It points out that the GT series turbos like a big housing and that the turbine wheels themselves are not super high flowing. I compared online to the Mitsu turbos and found the turbine wheels to be larger, higher flowing and using smaller housings. Interesting to see how this works out to reality. THe Mitsu 6H wheel works pretty well in the tiny 7cm housing. Now granted we are all clipping it but it still works pretty well. But this shows how other turbos with a .5 AR and a GT wheel are not working well. Thats pretty much what the data tells us. Sorry off on a tangent.. Lol



Clark

Last edited by AZScoobie; 07-25-2006 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:30 AM   #107
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is the 1.06 AR turbine housing worth it on the GT30R, or is it pretty much over-kill and only worth running on a GT35R?
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:42 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXTuning
A twin scroll 35r might be the perfect turbo for both high and low end power. Has anyone tried one of these yet?

http://www.atpturbo.com/

CHeers
Tim
I'm actually big on broad power bands and will be looking into the twinscroll 30R...hope to have results within a few months...
building/specing the kit from scratch...



and garrett does make a "dual entry" 35R...
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Old 07-26-2006, 02:52 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewt
is the 1.06 AR turbine housing worth it on the GT30R, or is it pretty much over-kill and only worth running on a GT35R?
I run the GT35R with a 1.06 housing. I dont think its over kill. Comes on a bit late for my heads and cams. But I like it.

The Turbine housing choices are really there to match to the size of the engine. I have not run the GT30R with a 1.06 housing. My imediate thoughts are that this would work well on a large displacment engine running lower boost pressures. Meaning a V6 of some type. But since I have not tried it on an STI I do not know. I think most people, including me, would rather have the standard 35R with a .82 GT housing.

Clark
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Old 07-27-2006, 03:32 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
I'm actually big on broad power bands and will be looking into the twinscroll 30R...hope to have results within a few months...
building/specing the kit from scratch...



and garrett does make a "dual entry" 35R...
I was looking at that on ATPs site, keep us posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
I run the GT35R with a 1.06 housing. I dont think its over kill. Comes on a bit late for my heads and cams. But I like it.

The Turbine housing choices are really there to match to the size of the engine. I have not run the GT30R with a 1.06 housing. My imediate thoughts are that this would work well on a large displacment engine running lower boost pressures. Meaning a V6 of some type. But since I have not tried it on an STI I do not know. I think most people, including me, would rather have the standard 35R with a .82 GT housing.

Clark
Clark, was it you, or maybe another tuner on here, whos car was fairly dead below 5K? If it was yours what type of headwork are you looking at and how much will it improve?
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Old 07-27-2006, 10:53 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX
I'm actually big on broad power bands and will be looking into the twinscroll 30R...hope to have results within a few months...
building/specing the kit from scratch...



and garrett does make a "dual entry" 35R...
I can vouch for the effectiveness of the twin entry. And maybe I'll save the info for another thread, but I converted my GT32 (twin scroll by design) to a 35R compressor wheel and a slightly different compressor cover (.60/AR 3" inlet). 4th gear pulls, starting at 3k rpms makes 22psi in the span of 900rpms. Too bad Garrett hasn't gone further with the GT32, i.e. making it in an "R" CHRA and offering an 82mm wheel for it. Its a great turbo and the turbine wheel is right between the 30R and 35R so its a great compromise. Next step is to fit the 82mm GT40 cover to it. That's where I finish modding this turbo
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Old 07-27-2006, 11:38 AM   #112
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well, hopefully I can get the kit done and on a our shop RS or STi...my 2.0 just won't do it for now
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Old 07-27-2006, 01:48 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentbob343
I was looking at that on ATPs site, keep us posted.

Clark, was it you, or maybe another tuner on here, whos car was fairly dead below 5K? If it was yours what type of headwork are you looking at and how much will it improve?

I have big port heads and JDM Cams with a 1.06 AR housing on my Car. It is fairly dead below 5k.. It makes 14 psi by 4400 rpm and full boost (30) around 5200-5500rpm. So yeah. Pretty dead.. But its still making 280whp at 4k rpm Which on this mustang dyno is more then most STI's make tuned out max.

Rule of thumb.. 400+whp STI's gain 50-60whp with cam and slight port work.

Clark
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Old 07-27-2006, 04:23 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
But its still making 280whp at 4k rpm Which on this mustang dyno is more then most STI's make tuned out max.

Sounds like another one of those conservative tunes we're always hearing about
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Old 07-27-2006, 04:31 PM   #115
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Lol.. My car knocks like mad. My breather system was run wrong. The Crank, heads and PCV are all tied together

I am like the hair dresser with the worst hair ever.. The construction worker with a ratty old house. The Detail guy with a Mud covered service truck... ha. I need to spend time on my car and tune but somehow I just dont want to.

C
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Old 07-27-2006, 04:49 PM   #116
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You forgot the shoe repair guy On a serious note, how the hell did you tie the breathers together LOL (or were you kidding)?
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Old 07-27-2006, 07:10 PM   #117
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I did not do it. An unnamed mechanic did it. Since its under the manifold I never saw it. It actualy took me a while to trace it all down. Its been like that for a while. I am going to fix that and retune the car with the new UTec software.

Clark
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Old 08-15-2006, 12:09 AM   #118
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So it seems that the GT35R .63 is generally disliked on the ej257 but does anyone have any idea how it would react to a ej207?
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:37 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRallyBlue
So it seems that the GT35R .63 is generally disliked on the ej257 but does anyone have any idea how it would react to a ej207?
I imagine in the higher rpm's it would be much happier with much less manifold pressure than the 257 but at a pay off of spool up.
dual AVCS would be a great benefit for this setup...
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Old 08-15-2006, 12:40 PM   #120
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The 35R .63 is not bad on the 207 but to be honest I would rather have a 30R with .82.

Clark
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:56 PM   #121
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Well, it looks like it eill be the .82 on either turbo for me. Now I just have to decide which one. Lots of good info in this thread. I learned a good amount more about turbos just reading it. So, thanks for the info guys. I just don't know if the extra power is important enough for the slight lag of the 35R. Everyone whos has the 35R .82 seems to think the extra wait is worth it though.
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:30 PM   #122
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Sorry for awakening the death

I'm building my 2004WRX into a brutal sleeper.
Just installed a full Sti type RA driveline (5MT DCCD) using the 4.444FD incl lsd front and rear (180r).
To complement this setup I'm going to build a 2,5STI engine (probably sleeved) with all jewelry possible into it (8500rev limit)

My goal is to have instant power with best throttle response (hence P&L TMIC like setup)

If I manage to get 450Nm all the way I would be very satisfied.
With all the way I mean 2800-7800rpm.

I know the GT3071R/0.63Ar will strugle to breathe above 6500rpm, but do you guys think it's possible to use the GT3076R (what AR ?) to get the [email protected] still boosting seriously under 3000rpm (1.2bar will do the job at those low revs I suppose ?)

I know the turbo is capable of giving me much more torque, but thats not what I'm looking for. I just like torque being flat all the way giving a lineair power increase towards the end.

Regards
DD aka Erik
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:52 PM   #123
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3076 with a .82 at minimum if you are wanting to be breathing well past 7k rpms.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:23 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Devotion View Post
Sorry for awakening the death

I'm building my 2004WRX into a brutal sleeper.
Just installed a full Sti type RA driveline (5MT DCCD) using the 4.444FD incl lsd front and rear (180r).
To complement this setup I'm going to build a 2,5STI engine (probably sleeved) with all jewelry possible into it (8500rev limit)

My goal is to have instant power with best throttle response (hence P&L TMIC like setup)

If I manage to get 450Nm all the way I would be very satisfied.
With all the way I mean 2800-7800rpm.

I know the GT3071R/0.63Ar will strugle to breathe above 6500rpm, but do you guys think it's possible to use the GT3076R (what AR ?) to get the [email protected] still boosting seriously under 3000rpm (1.2bar will do the job at those low revs I suppose ?)

I know the turbo is capable of giving me much more torque, but thats not what I'm looking for. I just like torque being flat all the way giving a lineair power increase towards the end.

Regards
DD aka Erik

First, a 3076.82 will boost at 2k in 4th gear. How much do you want.

second, there's no use in 8500rpms with that turbo.

you won't get 450 nm at 2800. it's a 4 cylinder man.........
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