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Old 10-25-2003, 08:25 PM   #1
TheDonPerignon
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Default Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

A bit of background-- it's been my personal goal to go to Princeton ever since I entered high school, and in order to fulfill this aspiration I have worked very hard, taking AP classes and recieving excellent grades (from the top public school in the nation-- Bellevue High School--see one of the spring newsweeks). I still have a year+ left before I have to worry about college admissions, but I try to gather as much information as I can, so that I may be proactive and better my chances. However, my friend and I were chatting (her father is an interviewer for Brown U. admissions), and she said that in order to matriculate at any Ivy league school, you practically have to have a parent who is an alumni, or you must be very accomplished in sports (especially lacrosse and football).

Although my parents went to good schools--my dad was an L.L.M. from NYU Law school and my mom a psychology major w/ some graduate work from the U of Wash.--at the time they had neither the money nor the connections to even think of attending an ivy league.

What do you guys think of this? Is she completely accurate? In my opinion, things have changed. It is no longer an aristocracy.

Discuss.
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Old 10-25-2003, 08:40 PM   #2
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Unless you have a 4.0+ and 1300-1500 SATs you basically have no chance. Colleges have been insanely hard to get into nowadays. Your only chance is to either be exceptionally gifted or play a sport and be really good at it.
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Old 10-25-2003, 08:48 PM   #3
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go to Cal State Long Beach, ratio of girls to guys is 7 girls to every 1 guy, and most are hot. I love my school.
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Old 10-25-2003, 08:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by brucelee
Ivy league is actually sport related. Why not try to get into a better school, like Stanford, or MIT? They aren't Ivy League, but they kick ASS. (Also, Cal Tech)
Stanford and MIT are just as hard to get into as an Ivy League school.
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Old 10-25-2003, 09:14 PM   #5
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No "high schooler with WRX" comments. I'm impressed, OT!




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Old 10-25-2003, 09:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheDonPerignon
she said that in order to matriculate at any Ivy league school, you practically have to have a parent who is an alumni, or you must be very accomplished in sports (especially lacrosse and football).

What do you guys think of this? Is she completely accurate? In my opinion, things have changed. It is no longer an aristocracy.

I agree it's no longer an aristocracy; even the top schools have students from all social backgrounds, and not all sports stars either. It is very competitive, though. Why are you so determined to go to Princeton? There are many schools where you can get a good education, not just the Ivys.

By the way, the town of Princeton is not that exciting for young guy. All the action is in NYC, which is an hour away. I lived in Princeton for 3 yrs, and couldn't wait to leave.
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Old 10-25-2003, 09:46 PM   #7
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you have your WRX wagon listed as an Avant... you'll deffinately be admitted.
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Old 10-25-2003, 10:00 PM   #8
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If you rank schools according to prestige; from ivy league to community college, the #1 factor correlated with how prestigous of a university you will attend is what income class your parents are in. Yes, non-alumni and poor people go to ivy league schools, but having parents that can donate enough money to build a new dorm helps a lot.

Decide what programs intrest you. If you want to attend law school then Harvard is an excellent choice, however, if you want to be an engineer then a lot of the ivy league schools aren't such great choices if you had your pick of any school.
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Old 10-25-2003, 10:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin Overton
you have your WRX wagon listed as an Avant... you'll deffinately be admitted.
whew, thanks for warning me, I definitely would not have wanted that to tarnish my name.
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Old 10-25-2003, 10:53 PM   #10
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oh speeling errors my fav
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:05 PM   #11
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you get the point. i am drinking BEER
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:11 PM   #12
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one thing i found out in my applications to college was timing. I was no Ivy League candidate, but i did have a 4.1 GPA and a 1200 SAT. I applied to UGA in early August of my senior year, whilst (same GPA, same SAT) my buddy applied later. I was accepted, he wasn't. Contrary to popular belief, it's not all in your SAT and GPA...colleges want personality nowadays as well. See if you can get an interview with the admissions counselor.
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheDonPerignon
A bit of background-- it's been my personal goal to go to Princeton ever since I entered high school, and in order to fulfill this aspiration I have worked very hard, taking AP classes and recieving excellent grades (from the top public school in the nation-- Bellevue High School--see one of the spring newsweeks). I still have a year+ left before I have to worry about college admissions, but I try to gather as much information as I can, so that I may be proactive and better my chances. However, my friend and I were chatting (her father is an interviewer for Brown U. admissions), and she said that in order to matriculate at any Ivy league school, you practically have to have a parent who is an alumni, or you must be very accomplished in sports (especially lacrosse and football).

Although my parents went to good schools--my dad was an L.L.M. from NYU Law school and my mom a psychology major w/ some graduate work from the U of Wash.--at the time they had neither the money nor the connections to even think of attending an ivy league.

What do you guys think of this? Is she completely accurate? In my opinion, things have changed. It is no longer an aristocracy.

Discuss.
Err. What's all the fuss about? The president, a bit of a dope, let's face it, has an MBA from Harvard and a BA from Yale (legacy student admission by virtue of his father's attendance). If he can get in, so can my dog.

Anyway, why Princeton?

Gotta go - I'm just putting the finishing touches to my border collie's application! WOOF!

No offence TDP, but the spelling on your application wil have to be better than in your thread starter or you've got NO chance.

Last edited by HoRo1; 10-25-2003 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:47 PM   #14
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Well here's a quick rundown from my high school, which is usually rated as one of the best private schools in the SE. Our numbers were pretty consistent from year to year...6 people to harvard, 2-3 to yale, 2-3 to stanford, people on and off to columbia/MIT, and for some reason only 1 person to princeton. Now that doesn't seem like a lot, but keep in mind my graduating class was around 170 people. Sports can be a big thing...I know one person who went to harvard for crew and another who went to yale for baseball. 5 or 6 went to Cornell for football during the year I graduated. Anyway...all these kids had 10+ APs, 4s/5s on all of them of course and none scored lower than 1510 on their SATs. My school had a modified 4.0 scale where you got multipliers for APs. The highest gpa who ended up going to harvard finished with a 4.73 if I remember correctly and never received less than a 96 in any class. The majority also had vast extracurriculars whether that was political involvement, volunteer work, debate, or any number of things. I'd imagine it's pretty much what you expect for a *chance* to get in...4.0+ GPA, 1500+ SATs, and a ton of extra curriculars you show significant achievement in

Edit: The football kids don't fit any of that high gpa/sat stuff, just to let you know
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Re: Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

Quote:
Originally posted by HoRo1
No offence TDP, but the spelling on your application wil have to be better than in your thread starter or you've got NO chance.
I count one spelling error (receiving--mixed the i and the e--simple typing mistake), so I'm not sure that I understand.

Why do I want to go to Princeton? Have you ever seen the painting The School of Athens by Raphael? Well, that's what I want, an atmosphere where there is an emormous thirst for knowledge and learning. I don't drink or go clubbing, so I really am not bothered by the lack of nightlife in Princeton.

Does anyone have any useful opinions? This is supposed to be a discussion, not an argument.


edit: thank you to those who have contributed positively to this thread, aforementioned statement does not apply.
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Old 10-26-2003, 01:00 AM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

Quote:
Originally posted by HoRo1
Err. What's all the fuss about? The president, a bit of a dope, let's face it, has an MBA from Harvard and a BA from Yale (legacy student admission by virtue of his father's attendance). If he can get in, so can my dog.

Dubya got in not becuase of his stellar performace but rather because his dad went there and he donated a ton of money. As wrong as it is, donting a ton of money will get you in whereever you want. However it is good because it allows people who deserve to go there but can't afford it a chance to attend a great school they would otherwise not be able to attend.
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Old 10-26-2003, 01:17 AM   #17
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Default Re: Re: Re: Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheDonPerignon
Why do I want to go to Princeton? Have you ever seen the painting The School of Athens by Raphael? Well, that's what I want, an atmosphere where there is an emormous thirst for knowledge and learning. I don't drink or go clubbing, so I really am not bothered by the lack of nightlife in Princeton.
If you really mean this, you should seriously consider Caltech, like brucey said. There's no time or energy for a true 'nightlife' and the weather is so much nicer than Princeton. Of course, it's 4 years of unrelenting abuse, which is much different than the Ivy League schools. At least, that's what I hear from friends who transferred (the Ivies appear to be really hard to get into, but not the work is much less difficult, comparitively, according to them).
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Old 10-26-2003, 01:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

Quote:
Originally posted by TheDonPerignon
she said that in order to matriculate at any Ivy league school, you practically have to have a parent who is an alumni, or you must be very accomplished in sports (especially lacrosse and football).
She lies!

Actually - I don't know about now, but I had no trouble getting accepted at Cornell back when I was in undergrad (sadly, that was 16yrs ago... ouch) - it is going to depend on your grades, the quality of your school, etc. - not who you popped out of. When you apply, if you have your heart set on Princeton, do the early decision thing to optimize your chances (they know that 90% of the people who apply that way will accept the offer, and really want to go, which helps) Also - get the application as soon as you can, and get working on the essays (if they still do that sort of thing) and think about whom you are going to get recommendations from - at the HS level, it won't matter who they are, but it will matter how eloquent they are in pimping you to them... Good luck! (and always remember - if you don't get in the first time, go to your next choice, work like a dog, and apply transfer)
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Old 10-26-2003, 01:37 AM   #19
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I have several close friends in ivy league schools so I can help some light on the situation.

First off, I went to what is in my opinion the best school in washington D.C. It was a private highschool all guys, great reputation and supposedly it's top 5 for college acceptances.

1.) Nationality matters. I don't care what you say it's going to matter especially at an ivy. Being asain can hurt you and lacking extracirriculars can really hurt too.

2.) SAT's. Again this is all going to be relative. But i can say more in the 1450+ rang is what they want to see.

3.) sports. do them they help

4.) community service. they like this more than sports or so i feel.

5.) Marketing, college applications are just about how well you market yourself. If you make it far enough for them to actually read your application then make sure you make yourself out to be the hottest **** on the face of the planent. You have excellent grades and ambitious course load. They can see that. Sure you can go on and on about how you're a really hard worker but you don't need to. your grades speak for themself. know this and do a good job represnting yourself

6.) i wanted to go to princeton after i toured there. That place is gorgeous with gorgeous intelligent women. Then i got the bright idea that hey, you want to build cars and work for a race team. So that's when i decided to become an engineer. Realize that everyone and their mother wants to go to princeton and it may not be the best place for what your major is. You need to ask yourself what do i want to do when i leave college? What is my degree going to get me? will i learn or simply use it as a tool to get me a job? I needed a degree that would teach me everything i needed to know and at the same time make my application stand out to employeers because i graduated with a mechanical engineering degree from this university. Princeton had the highest number of applicants per seat the year i applied to college. I did not apply there because their program is in my opinion not good enough for all the variables that would be input to going there for my major. You need to step back and analyze the whole thing for yourself. I can't stress that enough.

7.) reccomendations. They matter a lot. I had some of the best reccomendations possible. Get the best ones you can and get them from people who like you and respect you. That is what i did but power speaks. My ex girlfriend got one from the president of sysco systems and some incredibly high ranking army general. needless to say she got in where she wanted and she didn't have the grades you or even i had.

8.) Ivy league in general. Talking with my friends i have deduced that ivy leagues try to assemble the best group of people possible. Brown sticks out as an example of this. One of my close friends from home goes there. She is an absolute balls out genius. I am constantly floored that she has such a unique method of thought. It's truely impressive. But basically she is a genius with incredible credentials and everyone that she tells me about that goes there is the same way. I hate them all. it's like the superfriends. My friend at Dartmouth loves it there, he's doing very well there and has a great time. It's not too much harder than out highschool and he adjusted very well. Another one of my buddies is at yale on their hockey team. Again another kid who is just a balls out genius. He says it's difficult there but he seems to like it all the same. Realize that ivy league kids are all going to be the hottest **** out there. You go in and you're nobody and all the kids are all smart just like you. The best part is there seems to be no ego issues that i would have expected in such an environment, but again i think my friends choose wisely. I know a few other kids at ivy's but i am not that close with them compared to those mentioned above.

9.) relax, it's a big deal but not the ned of the world. What's going to happen is what's going to happen. you seem to be on the right path

conclusion: If i could do it again i'd probaly end up at the same place i am right now. Although i really would have made a joke application. just the essay part to a school that was completely out of my reach. namely i would have applied to princeton and my essay would have been one sentance stating that i'm awesome and to pick me because i just saved you 20 minutes of boredom. dollars to doughnuts says i would have gotten into that school for having the balls to write that.


good luck, i know this is long but i took the time to write it and i think it'll benefit you immensly


M
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Old 10-26-2003, 08:31 AM   #20
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A differing perspective...

If you wanna go to a name school by all means go for it. But I wouldn't get too cranked up over it though if it doesn't work out.

It's about what's between your ears, not the school you went to.

Of course... it never hurts to have a name school on your resume so if you wanna go for it, best of luck.

Myself.... I went to the free school for poor kids (UCSB) and ... well... it hasn't ever held me back. In my current job there are stanford PhD's that report to me. In my current job and in my previous jobs I've worked with and managed a lot of people from various name schools. What I've seen is that the correlation in results is not especially strong. When considering a new hire I will note what school they went to but what matters to me is the depth of their knowledge - which I can assess in about the first 15 minutes of an interview (and a proper interview allows for at least an hour to understand a person's strengths and weak areas).

Now... don't get me wrong: I'm not at all saying that name schools are bad. Not in the least. It's just that I've known people who got all depressed if it didn't work out and I hope you'll keep it in perspective.

I shoudl also mention that over the years I've been unsure of how I'll deal with this when the time comes for my kids to go to college. I'll surely be able to afford any of the name schools if they get in (not because I'm rich or anything... but just becuase I've kinda planned for that possibility far enough in advance that time is on my side - most people could afford it easily if they plan far enough ahead) and I'll encourage them to apply to whatever schools seem to have good programs in the fields they have aptitude in. But I don't see ever pressuring them to get into a particular school or particular kind of school.

My point is... don't let the name of the school become your dominant aspiration. Focus more on the discipline and growth of your mind.

Aim for mastery of your field no matter what school or major you choose. If you achieve mastery, you will rigorously own during your career. If you fail to achieve mastery, you may end up floating through your career, may not ever accomplish much, and seldom if ever draw the best assignments, no matter what it says on your resume.

Just something to keep in mind.

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Old 10-26-2003, 09:26 AM   #21
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Facts: 3.9+ GPA at a respected preparatory high school in an honors curriculum, 1400 SAT, baseball/football letters, handful of "service" bullcrap

Choices: Stanford, Davidson, Johns Hopkins, Brown, Columbia, Duke

Accepted: Davidson, Johns Hopkins, Columbia

Rejected: Stanford, Duke, Brown
I had a letter of recommendation to Duke from my g/f's father's friend, a lawyer and Duke alumnus. Duke also rejected the valedictorian of my class, a female.

Bottom line: I was formally recruited for football by three schools, and only three schools. I'll let you guess which ones.........
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Old 10-26-2003, 10:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Are ivy leagues THAT hard to get into?

Quote:
Originally posted by YoungWilliams
If you really mean this, you should seriously consider Caltech, like brucey said. There's no time or energy for a true 'nightlife' and the weather is so much nicer than Princeton. Of course, it's 4 years of unrelenting abuse, which is much different than the Ivy League schools. At least, that's what I hear from friends who transferred (the Ivies appear to be really hard to get into, but not the work is much less difficult, comparitively, according to them).
I agree. Depending on what your interests are, you may get a much better and more rigorous education at a non-ivy school.

My wife did her PhD at Harvard and was a teaching assistant for several undergrad courses there. Her impression was that Harvard is hard to get into and the students are very bright, but the curriculum is not all that challenging. Few people fail out. At one point she was grading essays, which were mostly pretty bad, and was told to ease up and make sure the average grade was a B.
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Old 10-26-2003, 10:59 AM   #23
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Gotta have money man.

My sister in law went to MIT, she's not that smart but her parents own a bunch of car dealerships in Philly.

Undergrad is expensive, but you can get grad school for free most of the time. My grad school has teh free.
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Old 10-26-2003, 11:15 AM   #24
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Your grades, your SATs, your APs, your high school ranking. Those are pretty much what will get you in, if you don't have $$$ or the "right" background, which was my case. I'm sure $$$, sports, etc may help..but they aren't requirements by any means.

Out of high school, I had a high gpa, ~1400 SAT, AP Calc, AP Chem, AP CS, and was valedictorian. I went to Columbia for undergrad (finished in the top 10 thankyouverymuch) and grad school. My cousin is at Columbia as an undergrad now. She also doesn't have the big $$$ or sports, but she's pretty nerdy like me.

As others have said, if your heart is set on Princeton, apply for early decision. Also, have backup plans in place: apply for those other schools that you would go for your second choices.

Finally, it's not ALL about your college when you get a "real job". It's about your skills and knowledge.

Good luck!
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Old 10-26-2003, 11:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolphin Overton
you get the point. i am drinking BEER
Actually I don't believe he did.
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