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Old 03-22-2020, 11:50 PM   #1601
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Man, I must be getting old.....talking about clinging to old tech and the old days! I still listen to FM!
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:00 AM   #1602
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LOL, haha. Actually I still force myself to listen to FM in the garage so that I don't get left behind what is popular. Although some of the recent 'music' is really bad. Like that BTS, what the hell is that?

Anyway, I'm okay with trying new technology including the next gen STI. But I really hope it comes in MT.
I'll probably end up keeping my VA though for nostalgic reasons even if I get a new STI.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:58 AM   #1603
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I haven't listened to FM willingly since high school, but I'm still down with some BTS. I enjoy a very diverse swath of music.

The next STI will definitely retain a MT, but the surprise might be an HTCVT. They've been testing it out for years in the FXT, WRX, Ascent, OBXT and LXT.

I'm one of those nannies who would actually consider an HTCVT STI if the specs are legit enough. If it gets better fuel economy and I get to have Adaptive Cruise Control while keeping similar enough performance to the MT, I'll cast that stone.

"Change is an inevitability, Mr. Anderson." - Agent Smith
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:04 AM   #1604
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I feel especially old, unless the FM we're referencing is Frequency Modulation, I don't even understand the FM reference.

CVT no thank, DCT yes please.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:36 AM   #1605
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This thread makes me feel old, and young at the same time, lol.
Makes me realize how young I was when I started all of this.
Makes me realize how old I feel some days realizing just how much time has passed and the STI still has an EJ engine!
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:30 AM   #1606
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I still listen to FM radio... Satellite while travelling and my preferred stations go out of range, but FM on the morning drive, it's not for the music though, it's for the radio personalities. On the ride home I could care less, we don't have a good rock station so I don't listen to newer stuff, so I listen to classic rock. I miss WAAF out of Boston, so whenever I'm in Massachusetts I turn that out, but even then, a lot of new music on the radio is overproduced garbage. I'm not saying that just because I don't like it, more because "the radio plays what the industry wants you to hear". I search out good new music on the internet. I can't even stand listening to a country station, but there is some amazing country and blue grass on the internet from people not from an industry.

I honestly couldn't care less at this point what the the new STi brings to the table because it's not going to be what I want, it's probably not even going to be something I'd be willing to pay for.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:06 AM   #1607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
I feel especially old, unless the FM we're referencing is Frequency Modulation, I don't even understand the FM reference.

CVT no thank, DCT yes please.
Yes, Frequency Modulation. I don't listen to Amplitude Modulation as I get news from online, but yes, I still force myself to listen to FM.

I hate AT cars in general (I've owned CVT, planetary, and a dual clutch) so I would never consider one on my 'for driving' car, but a CVT in the current gen Maxima I drove as a rental car during my business trips was decent. No CVT drone, simulated shift points. It felt like an ordinary planetary AT gearbox.

If the new Supra came MT there would be one in my garage.. but lately I've been scratching my head whether I should just buy one anyway to keep as a garage queen since I enjoy spending a lot of time in my garage and just having a nice sports car company me could be real nice and be a fun conversation piece.. I don't care if I don't drive the car much. Besides the daily driver beater I have, my cars are all toys and they have very low milage. My wife teases me why my AWD cars are sleeping through winter.. haha
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:51 AM   #1608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
...I'm one of those nannies who would actually consider an HTCVT STI if the specs are legit enough. If it gets better fuel economy and I get to have Adaptive Cruise Control while keeping similar enough performance to the MT, I'll cast that stone.

"Change is an inevitability, Mr. Anderson." - Agent Smith
Don't hit me with that stone being in front of you in line.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:18 AM   #1609
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It's amazing what time does to people. I would hazard that there the majority here okay with a CVT or DCT would have rejected those options outright 10 years ago.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:42 AM   #1610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Don't hit me with that stone being in front of you in line.
MOVE OUT THE WAY
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
It's amazing what time does to people. I would hazard that there the majority here okay with a CVT or DCT would have rejected those options outright 10 years ago.
I've always enjoyed Subaru's CVT. I've always hated a traditional automatic. I haven't driven a ZF, but that's because AFAIK it's not in anything affordable. I refuse to Google whether or not it is since I also assume it would be in a Euro vehicle that doesn't have AWD or utility.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:06 AM   #1611
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Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
It's amazing what time does to people. I would hazard that there the majority here okay with a CVT or DCT would have rejected those options outright 10 years ago.
I haven't owned an auto trans vehicle since my 2002 explorer, I hated that trans and all autos before it. My current auto shifts faster that I can physically shift (aisin box in my IS350 fsport), but the paddle lag is real; I still haven't calibrated myself to it yet. I think I'll have to shift 300rpm+/- sooner than redline to make it work, honestly haven't had a chance to play/practice though since I've been self quarantined for a week now and the most driving I've done is to get produce and deliver meals to my in-laws and family friends.

Even the 6mt in my wife's corolla hatch is more engaging & fun though, but the FF driving experience still doesn't work for me. I pretty much use manual mode in the Lexus to hold gears (because it will mercilessly bang the rev limiter until you shift while in manual mode); other than that I leave it in auto mode. I probably won't play with it on backroads in the same manner I did the WRX, but time will tell; it's just sitting in my garage right now not racking up miles. It will work as a good transition piece for me, after this I'll end up in a truck and/or EV, will keep the manual trans NA V8 in the old iron for fun times though.

Edit:
I have driven various forms of the Charger with the ZF box (they call it "torqueflight" or some other marketing bs), it's good, it shifts quick, paddle/stick lag is still there though; the random money shift "feature" had me leery of using the paddles though, so I used the stick instead, they are the only manufacturer I can think of where back is up and forward is down, which is the logical move from a drag racing standpoint, but it takes getting used to.

I have yet to experience a CVT I could deal with on a daily basis, also the questionable durability of them keeps me away. I hate fake shifts in a CVT too, I'm okay with the "drone" while they stay at/near optimal RPM, but it's a question of what that optimal RPM was programmed for (longevity during warranty period is my guess). Admittedly, the only CVT equipped vehicles I've driven are rental fleet FF econo-boxes, which I don't like anyways, so the CVT could just be the urine flavored icing on the s***y cake.

However by the time I might be okay with a CVT I'll be in a single speed EV for a daily and it won't matter anyways. I'm not so old that I completely dismiss a technology as witchcraft, but I'm not so young that I'll accept the "newer is always better" mentality; I'm somewhere in the middle, an over-analytical a$$-hole if you will, and a frugal one to boot.

Last edited by Sid03SVT; 03-23-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:20 AM   #1612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
It's amazing what time does to people. I would hazard that there the majority here okay with a CVT or DCT would have rejected those options outright 10 years ago.
I was still in my 20s ten years ago and Subaru was just coming out with CVTs.

Id bet money on no CVT STI ever unless they literally slap the STI badge on some donkey of a sports car. Nah, theyd just call it the Impreza XT GT CVT
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:24 AM   #1613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
It's amazing what time does to people. I would hazard that there the majority here okay with a CVT or DCT would have rejected those options outright 10 years ago.
I still hate them, but if a car only comes in AT but you like the shape, what can you do. It's the new 'new' unfortunately. Plus I'm not getting any younger so one of these days my leg injury I had will come back to bite me again, I thinks.

It can be a good candidate to add to my MT stable.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:50 AM   #1614
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As I've gotten older, I've gotten lazier. I really like the gear box in my S3. I do think I'd be trading it for a much improved 6mt STI, but that would be the last manual gear box car I see myself ever owning.
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:24 PM   #1615
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MOVE OUT THE WAYI've always enjoyed Subaru's CVT. I've always hated a traditional automatic. I haven't driven a ZF, but that's because AFAIK it's not in anything affordable. I refuse to Google whether or not it is since I also assume it would be in a Euro vehicle that doesn't have AWD or utility.
I've been on the path of a new car for about a year now. The STI was going to be it until I heard how long it was going to be. Now, I am probably going to get something at the end of the year or next(depending on things I've heard), and then when the STI does come out.....if I just have to have it.....I will evaluate whether I can get it outright or will I GTP whatever I have to get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gathermewool View Post
I was still in my 20s ten years ago and Subaru was just coming out with CVTs.

I’d bet money on no CVT STI ever unless they literally slap the STI badge on some donkey of a sports car. Nah, they’d just call it the Impreza XT GT CVT

I actually liked the drive of the ECVT I test drove when I had my Justys and had actively tried to buy one. Luckily I wasn't ever able to find one. That particular transmission(1st production CVT in the USA by the way) was horrible here in the states. I'm not sure if any of them survived very many miles before needing work or replacement.

Anyway, I am fully confident an automatic STI is "near". My question is, is it going to be a HTCVT? Or are some of the rumors about a DCT true?
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:18 PM   #1616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
MOVE OUT THE WAYI've always enjoyed Subaru's CVT. I've always hated a traditional automatic. I haven't driven a ZF, but that's because AFAIK it's not in anything affordable. I refuse to Google whether or not it is since I also assume it would be in a Euro vehicle that doesn't have AWD or utility.
Again, FCA/Dodge/Chrysler have been using the ZF 8HP since 2011.
You can find a 2015+ Charger V6 AWD with a ZF 8HP or a Durango V6 AWD. These are affordable and reasonably practical vehicles.
First thing you'll notice is that, from a dead stop, there's zero delay, 100% of engine torque is unleashed and the TC locks up very quickly.
Then, it's up to the traction control system to sort things out, because the ZF tranny easily deals with engine torque, it needs no protection beyond keeping its fluid reasonably cool.
So, to sum up, I'm just busting the ZF affordability myth.
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:21 PM   #1617
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The ZF 9HP is offered in more affordable models such as the Cherokee, Renegade, and Compass.
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:38 PM   #1618
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Again, FCA/Dodge/Chrysler have been using the ZF 8HP since 2011.
You can find a 2015+ Charger V6 AWD with a ZF 8HP or a Durango V6 AWD. These are affordable and reasonably practical vehicles.
First thing you'll notice is that, from a dead stop, there's zero delay, 100% of engine torque is unleashed and the TC locks up very quickly.
Then, it's up to the traction control system to sort things out, because the ZF tranny easily deals with engine torque, it needs no protection beyond keeping its fluid reasonably cool.
So, to sum up, I'm just busting the ZF affordability myth.
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
The ZF 9HP is offered in more affordable models such as the Cherokee, Renegade, and Compass.
Thanks for the education!

All of those are "affordable" vehicles, relatively speaking, but historically they've been far from reliable. If they've changed things around during the same time that Subaru has seemingly gone in the opposite direction, then cool.

Actually... I just remembered that I drove my buddy's Challenger back in 2016 and I really enjoyed that vehicle despite it being an automatic.
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:44 PM   #1619
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The ZF 9HP is offered in more affordable models such as the Cherokee, Renegade, and Compass.
You're right. I didn't want to talk about the ZF 9HP too much because, at least earlier on, it seemed like people were not too happy with it (some gear hunting and the infamous "never shifts into 9th" complaint ).
I had a rental Chrysler 200 for a few days and I found it shifted just fine (all the way into 9th); that was back in 2015/2016.
I haven't had a chance to try any of newer 9HP-equipped vehicles since then.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:01 PM   #1620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Thanks for the education!

All of those are "affordable" vehicles, relatively speaking, but historically they've been far from reliable. If they've changed things around during the same time that Subaru has seemingly gone in the opposite direction, then cool.

Actually... I just remembered that I drove my buddy's Challenger back in 2016 and I really enjoyed that vehicle despite it being an automatic.
You're absolutely right; some of these vehicles are on the lower end of the reliability scale and I have to acknowledge it.
But, the ZF-designed components in these vehicles have held up pretty well overall. And, believe me, the ZF 8HP in most Dodge products are seeing a LOT of abuse .
The Chally you've driven in 2016 may or may not have a ZF 8HP depending on MY; MY2015 was the first year with the 8HP for Challies.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:08 PM   #1621
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The ZF 8HP and 9HP are different animals. Plus adding to the confusion is that FCA builds their own units under licenses from ZF. So a FCA 8HP is different from a ZF 8HP used elsewhere.

FCA shoved the 9HP in a bunch or econo-boxes that if you do the math, could never pull 9th.

The ZF 8HP is a great trans. It has better gear spread than any CVT LUX/Subaru has. So, even with Subaru's current line-up. You would probably get to 60 0.5 seconds quicker and gain 2-3 mpg.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:58 PM   #1622
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The point being is that the ZF (8 or 9) can be placed in affordable vehicles too. The 8HP is a great transmission. The 9HP is still good but not great and programming was a real issue early on. It still seems to struggle in certain applications.
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Old Yesterday, 12:41 AM   #1623
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The FA24 was designed for torque, not horsepower. It is great for heavy SUV applications, not so much for performance cars. While torque sells cars, hp wins races. FA24 was literally designed for the Ascent and its towing capabilities. I am not sure if it will be a good fit for something like the STI.
It depends on the design intent. I dont think STi necessarily wants to build a car thatll win races, but rather one that will sell. Perhaps winning races will sell, but I think its also possible that a fun, usable car will sell, and a lot of low down torque is generally more usable than having all the power up top.
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Old Yesterday, 12:46 AM   #1624
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right now the torque figures are at 295 ft lbs. any chance the new sti gets 325 ft lbs of torque. 315-320hp is not necessarily a bad thing if the torque numbers are vastly improved. and if it is the FA24, there will be room to add more power to it. it wont be so high strung, so there will be room to tune them for more power. let's not forget the engine is capable of pulling 8,000lbs, and this one wont be mated to a cvt.
The top end is likely to be vastly different from that of the ascent though, no? I would assume the block is the same, but wont everything else be relatively different?
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Old Yesterday, 02:29 AM   #1625
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As I've come to understand, the ZF even numbered transmissions are very good, the odd numbered gearboxes are problematic. So the ZF 6 and 8 speeds are good, the 7 and 9 speeds are not. I have the 6 speed in one of my cars and it's very good despite it being 10 years old.
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