Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday April 5, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2020, 06:54 PM   #26
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A garage in the Midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX / 16 STI
17 Golf-R / 16 FiST

Default

Not having rear seats is not a problem for me as I own multiple cars, but AT is a problem.. especially the 4 banger makes no sense to me since there is a more powerful V6 version why bother buying the 4 cylinder.

That said, the 86 with 6MT would be a better choice even if it came with a wimpy motor again.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 02-18-2020, 10:50 PM   #27
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

According to Autoevolution, I may have been close with my power estimates of a naturally aspirated FA24 for the twins. No idea on the credibility of this rumor..

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...21-141165.html

"Word has it the 2.0-liter FA20 will be replaced by a 2.4 similar in design to the FA24 but without the forced induction of the twin-scroll turbocharger. The free-breathing version of the FA24 is expected with 217 horsepower and 177 pound-feet, specifications that seem likely when compared to the output of the FA20."

The extra torque would be welcomed.. but will the torque dip finally be eliminated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
I think we'll see the Twins with a naturally aspirated, high-ish revving FA24D (w/D-4S) with a 15-20% power bump (~225-245 hp & 170-190 lb-ft) thanks to the ~20% increase in displacement.. and of course the option for a manual transmission. I'm guessing the redline will be between 7,000-7,500 rpm considering the FA24 & FA20 share the same 86mm stroke. The added weight and friction from the larger diameter pistons may cause them to drop the redline down a bit from the current 7,400 rpm.

I really hope they adopt Mazda's philosophy for the Miata of "Adding Lightness" to keep the curb weight around 2,800 lbs or lower.

A naturally aspirated (Subaru) engine, manual transmission, and backseat will differentiate it from the BMW Supra (Edit: Especially with the recent announcement of the 3,1xx lb, 255hp/295lb-ft turbo 4 Supra). Being a lightweight, naturally aspirated, RWD coupe will also keep it out of the WRX/STI territory.
I suspect the turbocharged, 255 hp 86 rumors were confused with the 4 cylinder Supra.. or maybe just wishful thinking? or clickbait to draw traffic to their websites.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 02-19-2020 at 07:03 PM.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 02:04 PM   #28
bugatti0628
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 447323
Join Date: May 2016
Default

what if the 2.0 supra and the gr86 differentiate where the 2.0 supra gets the 255hp but with only the 8 speed automatic, and the gr86 gets the 2.4 turbo but only making 250hp and with the 6speed manual or automatic. neither would really step on each other's toes and the wrx and sti still would have the awd, more power, and more room than the new brz
bugatti0628 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 02:39 PM   #29
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2020 X3M Competition

Default

Very little chance this vehicle gets the FA24 engine IMO.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 02:43 PM   #30
JP Chestnut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Since everyone is complaining about the auto only Supra, I'm not sure how offering a similar HP version of the 86 with a manual wouldn't be an issue for Toyota. The fact that the 86 is even more practical (with its back seat) is an even bigger disincentive.

If they fit a detuned STI 2.4 into the twins, how long would it be until people had those tuned up to ~315hp using all OEM Subaru parts? Pretty quick I think.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 02:53 PM   #31
bugatti0628
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 447323
Join Date: May 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Since everyone is complaining about the auto only Supra, I'm not sure how offering a similar HP version of the 86 with a manual wouldn't be an issue for Toyota. The fact that the 86 is even more practical (with its back seat) is an even bigger disincentive.

If they fit a detuned STI 2.4 into the twins, how long would it be until people had those tuned up to ~315hp using all OEM Subaru parts? Pretty quick I think.
first we wait for confirmation of it getting the FA24 turbo. once that is confirmed, the tuning fun can begin. if the NA 2.4 is there then we will see its power output and decide from there
bugatti0628 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 06:16 PM   #32
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: AMERICA☜AMERICA
Vehicle:
.... stakes is
high

Default

Holding out for a CVT.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 06:27 PM   #33
Straight6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 419593
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
According to Autoevolution, I may have been close with my power estimates of a naturally aspirated FA24 for the twins. No idea on the credibility of this rumor..

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...21-141165.html

"Word has it the 2.0-liter FA20 will be replaced by a 2.4 similar in design to the FA24 but without the forced induction of the twin-scroll turbocharger. The free-breathing version of the FA24 is expected with 217 horsepower and 177 pound-feet, specifications that seem likely when compared to the output of the FA20."

The extra torque would be welcomed.. but will the torque dip finally be eliminated?


I suspect the turbocharged, 255 hp 86 rumors were confused with the 4 cylinder Supra.. or maybe just wishful thinking? or clickbait to draw traffic to their websites.
This right here makes perfect sense. I think you are spot on yet again.
Straight6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 06:35 PM   #34
Straight6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 419593
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default

Here is the thing...They can make a very, very, very potent 86 without FI. Porsche did it with the GT3, obviously I am not comparing the two BUT there is a ton of potential in a NA FA24...Ahhhh dafuq am I saying, we will barely get over 200 hp with terrible OEM tuning.
Straight6 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 10:59 PM   #35
fredzy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 317270
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: PA
Vehicle:
15 WRX
and a Sienna

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Holding out for a CVT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
Here is the thing...They can make a very, very, very potent 86 without FI. Porsche did it with the GT3, obviously I am not comparing the two BUT there is a ton of potential in a NA FA24...Ahhhh dafuq am I saying, we will barely get over 200 hp with terrible OEM tuning.
This is why Iím heeeere. Solidarity in disillusionment.
fredzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 09:44 AM   #36
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Blackstone, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

FA24 CVT BRZ making about 220-230 hp?

Sure. Why not.
chanomatik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:30 PM   #37
nevernudedrew
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 480079
Join Date: Jan 2018
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Greater Detroit Area, MI
Vehicle:
2018 WRX
WRB

Default

2.4? Likely.
2.4 with Turbo? Pipedream of mine.

It's all just wishful window shopping, but as a young guy with a wrx I put work into, a factory turbo brz platform would be super attractive and refreshing option.
nevernudedrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:39 PM   #38
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
1999 OBS Camo Wagon
1993 FWD Base Impreza

Default

Watch it be electric...
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:44 PM   #39
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: RI/SE Mass
Vehicle:
17 Imp Spurt
00 S2k

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
FA24 CVT BRZ making about 220-230 hp?

Sure. Why not.
Or, because it's not AWD, howabout a ZF8?

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:57 PM   #40
SoapBox
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
My wife said she'd
buy me a Lotus, AKA REX8

Default

What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
SoapBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 02:59 PM   #41
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
1999 OBS Camo Wagon
1993 FWD Base Impreza

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
Stupidity is their reason.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 03:33 PM   #42
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
06 Forester 18 Imp Sport

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
Why isn't the Miata more powerful? Even it's turbo isn't that great of an increase.

If they don't give it a turbo, hopefully whatever N/A they put in it will do better than what's in it now. People will ALWAYS ask for more power. The twins where complimented when they were introduced. They have just been out for a long time without any improvements worth discussing. Hopefully the 2nd gen will address much of this. They are not trying to offer a mini Vette with soo much power the majority of buyers won't be able to handle it. Remember, MPG was also a big part of the twins formula. Whether an enthusiast "cares" about it or not, I would think it still matters to a degree and also having to satisfy the CAFE stuff. MPG(emissions), size of engine(CoG), cost. Many things/reasons not to offer a turbo.
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 03:35 PM   #43
nevernudedrew
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 480079
Join Date: Jan 2018
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Greater Detroit Area, MI
Vehicle:
2018 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
Yes, the tech is there as well as the infrastructure to do so, but there is a lot more to it and I am no expert.

For one, this would compete too much with the WRX sales in my opinion, and they have positioned the brz/86 in its own offering category, affordable, lightweight, NA engine that drives great, and doesnt make too much power, tons of fun to drive, but leaves wanting for more power.

WRX gives you the turbo, manual, and awd we desire at another reasonable price point (slightly more expensive), but is a 4 door sedan, and heavier.

If you were to tell me I could get an affordable (wrx price or cheaper) RWD 2.4L turbo manual lightweight track coupe that can be tuned up easily, or a WRX like I bought, guess which way I'm going?
nevernudedrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 05:14 PM   #44
car_freak85
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13530
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Cascadia
Vehicle:
EA63 , EA81T, EJ20G,
EJ205

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
What is their reasoning for continuing to deny us the turbo engine? It's there, ready to go. Drop it in, bolt on bigger brakes from the parts bin and you're done. Where is the big expense for them?
From working within product planning at a vehicle OEM I feel like the amount of validation work required to make sure the car won't grenade itself, plus the cost of emissions and crash test certification don't justify the returns in additional sales.

These sort of decisions aren't taken lightly by manufacturers, if it penciled out you better believe you could get any one of the FA20/EJ257/EZ36 in the BRZ.
car_freak85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 05:55 PM   #45
jimmi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172959
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Franklin, TN
Vehicle:
'16 Ford GT350, '08
EvoX GSR,01 EclipseGT SDS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Why isn't the Miata more powerful? Even it's turbo isn't that great of an increase.

If they don't give it a turbo, hopefully whatever N/A they put in it will do better than what's in it now. People will ALWAYS ask for more power. The twins where complimented when they were introduced. They have just been out for a long time without any improvements worth discussing. Hopefully the 2nd gen will address much of this. They are not trying to offer a mini Vette with soo much power the majority of buyers won't be able to handle it. Remember, MPG was also a big part of the twins formula. Whether an enthusiast "cares" about it or not, I would think it still matters to a degree and also having to satisfy the CAFE stuff. MPG(emissions), size of engine(CoG), cost. Many things/reasons not to offer a turbo.
There is power and then there is power. The mazdaspeed Miata sold very well. The fast that nearly every car on the street can out drag the twins is the issue and why I didnít look at them.
jimmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 06:07 PM   #46
jimmi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172959
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Franklin, TN
Vehicle:
'16 Ford GT350, '08
EvoX GSR,01 EclipseGT SDS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
From working within product planning at a vehicle OEM I feel like the amount of validation work required to make sure the car won't grenade itself, plus the cost of emissions and crash test certification don't justify the returns in additional sales.

These sort of decisions aren't taken lightly by manufacturers, if it penciled out you better believe you could get any one of the FA20/EJ257/EZ36 in the BRZ.
Subaru has plenty of experience with FI. I doubt it is a big stretch for them to figure it out.
jimmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 06:51 PM   #47
oichan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 492327
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: A garage in the Midwest
Vehicle:
19 WRX / 16 STI
17 Golf-R / 16 FiST

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Stupidity is their reason.
Yes, more on the Toyoda side.
oichan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 08:22 PM   #48
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
06 Forester 18 Imp Sport

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmi View Post
There is power and then there is power. The mazdaspeed Miata sold very well. The fast that nearly every car on the street can out drag the twins is the issue and why I didnít look at them.
And the Miata is that much faster? Really? And if the Mazdaspeed sold so good, why don't they offer it now? Why isn't a turbo motor a standard motor for them?
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 08:31 PM   #49
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Blackstone, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

NC Miata Mazdaspeed was more of a Ford push.

ND Miata RF is pretty expensive. Adding a turbo would make it mid-to-upper $30k. Same with a BRZ STI.
chanomatik is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 01:41 AM   #50
subySerb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 155411
Join Date: Jul 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
NC Miata Mazdaspeed was more of a Ford push.

ND Miata RF is pretty expensive. Adding a turbo would make it mid-to-upper $30k. Same with a BRZ STI.
Mazda never offered a Mazdaspeed NC. However the NC was almost as fast as the NB Mazdaspeed and ND and especially the ND2 are much faster.
subySerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.