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Old 12-25-2019, 11:14 PM   #1
ben_7
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Default How reliable are the 2020 STi internal upgrades when it comes to modding?

Hi everyone,

I understand that my 2020 STi has basically the same engine upgrades as the 2018 STi Type RA, and while some people are already modifying it, I was wondering how reliable are the strengthen pistons and the stock block when it comes to modding?

I heard that boost was increased on the stock turbo from 14.5psi to 16.2psi, so I'm assuming that the 310hp/290lbs of torque at the crank is underrated as it feels a lot faster (even with the revised third gear) than my older 2018 STi did.

I've also read that the strengthened internals were meant for durability on the track vs modding for more power, but I was wondering if anyone knew how reliable they are under modding when compared to 2018 and previous STi's?

Are ringlands and other EJ25 reliability concerns still an issue with the 2018 STi Type RA/2019+ STi's?

What I'm thinking of doing after my 2020 STi gains some more miles on the stock internals would be the following:

- COBB stage 3 upgrade with flex fuel. Will E85 decrease reliability, and should I stick just to 91 and just COBB stage 3 without flex fuel?
- This should come with a slew of upgrades (COBB accessport, intake, exhaust, fuel pump, etc...)
- Since this comes with the COBB turboback exhaust kit, I would have to replace the Nameless axleback exhaust that I'm planning to buy shortly.

- COBB ECBS. I'm thinking to increase the boost to around 19psi with overboost at 21psi. Will this be safe on the stock turbo?

- COBB XLE BPV or Perrin BPV. I really want to hear the whoosh of the turbo sounds which I would hear from the COBB intake, but is the BPV necessary with the amount of boost that I want to increase to?

- IAG AOS

- Process West top mount intercooler

- Pro tune, probably at COBB or a good tuning shop in Southern California.

Would I need TGV deletes?

Would these upgrades bring my STi to around 350 whp with similar wheel torque figures? Would I need to replace my stock clutch at this point?

I'd be pretty content with around 350whp/350 wheel torque because that would be close to 400hp/torque at the crank which is plenty fast for daily driving and some track usage.

Also, I really like the vent to air sound of a BOV and I understand that I would need to do a speed density tune in order to install that, but would it be advisable when concerned with reliability?

Since I'm going for more reliability over extreme power, would my 2020 STi's stock block with these upgrades be reliable over long term?

Would like to hear anyone's experience with modding 2019+ STi's on the stock block with a similar setup to what I'm planning on my 2020 STi.
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Last edited by ben_7; 12-25-2019 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 12-26-2019, 10:23 AM   #2
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I think you should wait. The 2020 platform is too new to make sure everything is working the way it should stock. If you modify you will loss your warranty, and doing that on a brand new car that had some manufacture upgrades, there is just not that much of real work experience. I say wait for a year or two, make sure the car itself is solid and has no issues, in case it does you have the warranty.
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Old 12-26-2019, 01:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_7 View Post
Hi everyone,

I understand that my 2020 STi has basically the same engine upgrades as the 2018 STi Type RA, and while some people are already modifying it, I was wondering how reliable are the strengthen pistons and the stock block when it comes to modding?

I heard that boost was increased on the stock turbo from 14.5psi to 16.2psi, so I'm assuming that the 310hp/290lbs of torque at the crank is underrated as it feels a lot faster (even with the revised third gear) than my older 2018 STi did.

I've also read that the strengthened internals were meant for durability on the track vs modding for more power, but I was wondering if anyone knew how reliable they are under modding when compared to 2018 and previous STi's?

Are ringlands and other EJ25 reliability concerns still an issue with the 2018 STi Type RA/2019+ STi's?

What I'm thinking of doing after my 2020 STi gains some more miles on the stock internals would be the following:

- COBB stage 3 upgrade with flex fuel. Will E85 decrease reliability, and should I stick just to 91 and just COBB stage 3 without flex fuel?
- This should come with a slew of upgrades (COBB accessport, intake, exhaust, fuel pump, etc...)
- Since this comes with the COBB turboback exhaust kit, I would have to replace the Nameless axleback exhaust that I'm planning to buy shortly.

- COBB ECBS. I'm thinking to increase the boost to around 19psi with overboost at 21psi. Will this be safe on the stock turbo?

- COBB XLE BPV or Perrin BPV. I really want to hear the whoosh of the turbo sounds which I would hear from the COBB intake, but is the BPV necessary with the amount of boost that I want to increase to?

- IAG AOS

- Process West top mount intercooler

- Pro tune, probably at COBB or a good tuning shop in Southern California.

Would I need TGV deletes?

Would these upgrades bring my STi to around 350 whp with similar wheel torque figures? Would I need to replace my stock clutch at this point?

I'd be pretty content with around 350whp/350 wheel torque because that would be close to 400hp/torque at the crank which is plenty fast for daily driving and some track usage.

Also, I really like the vent to air sound of a BOV and I understand that I would need to do a speed density tune in order to install that, but would it be advisable when concerned with reliability?

Since I'm going for more reliability over extreme power, would my 2020 STi's stock block with these upgrades be reliable over long term?

Would like to hear anyone's experience with modding 2019+ STi's on the stock block with a similar setup to what I'm planning on my 2020 STi.
I still havenít found info on how much stronger type ra is compared to older ej but still putting one in my wrx
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Old 12-26-2019, 06:21 PM   #4
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With a spot on tune, the engine will handle around 500+whp. 450whp if you want to play it super safe. Again i stress spot on tune, because it's knock that destroys pistons and bearings, followed by owner neglect and negligence.

Run the OEM BOV and leave the aftermarket air sounds for the kiddies.
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:05 AM   #5
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No one has done it yet so no one will have the answers.
Hell, from what I can find anywhere there are no solid piece of info on how big of a change they did for internals.
So until things are known I would just enjoy the car and let others be the guinipigs.
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Old 12-27-2019, 01:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
With a spot on tune, the engine will handle around 500+whp. 450whp if you want to play it super safe. Again i stress spot on tune, because it's knock that destroys pistons and bearings, followed by owner neglect and negligence.

Run the OEM BOV and leave the aftermarket air sounds for the kiddies.
Wow! I was thinking around 350whp as the max for stock internals, but if 450whp is the max, that's wonderful!

Yeah I would definitely get a pro-tune, I'm thinking by a COBB shop in SoCal.
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Old 12-27-2019, 01:32 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BlackFighter View Post
I think you should wait. The 2020 platform is too new to make sure everything is working the way it should stock. If you modify you will loss your warranty, and doing that on a brand new car that had some manufacture upgrades, there is just not that much of real work experience. I say wait for a year or two, make sure the car itself is solid and has no issues, in case it does you have the warranty.
Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. I'm going to do suspension, wheels, tires and exhaust. I'm already going to install a Nameless Axleback, but that's it for mods.

I'll wait a year or two and then do engine/power mods when I have all the parts I listed in my original post that I'd like to install and get a pro-tune after.
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Old 12-27-2019, 03:25 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
Run the OEM BOV and leave the aftermarket air sounds for the kiddies.
But I love the turbo whooshes and whistles! lol

I wouldn't get a BOV without a speed density tune, but I was thinking about raising the boost on the stock turbo to around 19psi and then get an aftermarket BPV when I start modding.

With a COBB SF Intake, I should still be able to hear the turbo whooshes
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Old 12-27-2019, 10:46 AM   #9
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Hi,

I am keeping mine stock because I have a 7y/100k warranty. That being said, I took the COBB public data on their website, digitized it and posted it in an older thread on 2019 hp....basically I think the newer engines are underated at 310 and 340 is more like it.

Here are the data: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2895233 I think COBB can dyno relatively well, so these data seem ralistic to me. I did not collect the data, just digitized the public charts into a speadsheet and posted the new chart.....ymmv.

Meaning the S209 water injection may be worth 10hp but not 50.....my gut says this makes sense too..... that car is aero/looks, and suspension tweeks. I like the water injection a lot, but it would be interesting to see on a 30 degree day if there is any power add via water injection over a base sti. Moving air over the intercooler of course (fan or on the road).

So by my math here is what I have done to be happy: stock 2019 sti in ltd trim because I like the lux stuff, low profile, subispeed gurney flap, put on (Michelin but other brands would be ok too.. Pilot Sport 3+'s are my favorite) 265/35/18 rubber with 19 pound forged wheels from fastwrx.com (great wheels and shop btw) ...done. Oil changes will be frequent to avoid any warranty stuff down the road with at least every other at the dealer (3 to 4k there). I like fresh oil. It is wonderful to drive with the wheels/tires as is stock. The gurney flap at my speeds is for looks mostly.

Could not be happier. And have a full warranty for 100k. Had a very (for me and my wallet) high HP modded 996tt....like 560hp/550tq....and I was always worried about breaking things....in the end horsepower is nice but too much is bad too. Did a bit to lose weight on it too. Reliability and cost containment is nicer. After my warranty is gone I "could" maybe see doing up to 400 or 450 based on years and years of data on this site...but until then the car can zoom around just fine with a mere 350.

What people forget is that it is actually fun to have the car "be" in a window of usability. Am curious where we can go safely....hoping 450.

Last edited by jcb-memphis; 12-28-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:34 PM   #10
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I will have some info and photos of the internals for you soon.

Crawford Engineering

Last edited by Quirt; 12-27-2019 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 12-27-2019, 01:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_7 View Post
Wow! I was thinking around 350whp as the max for stock internals, but if 450whp is the max, that's wonderful!

Yeah I would definitely get a pro-tune, I'm thinking by a COBB shop in SoCal.
Go to Yimisport instead. They specialize in Subaru's while Cobb is more general and haven't tuned as many Subaru's as Yimisport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_7 View Post
But I love the turbo whooshes and whistles! lol

I wouldn't get a BOV without a speed density tune, but I was thinking about raising the boost on the stock turbo to around 19psi and then get an aftermarket BPV when I start modding.

With a COBB SF Intake, I should still be able to hear the turbo whooshes
You'll hear alot of that whooshe sound anyways with a Cobb intake and stock BOV and you'll want the traditional MAF tune and not SD for street duty.
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:58 PM   #12
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The Cobb flex fuel kit (SUB000FSFF) and supporting mods should get you to 350WHP on stock turbo but you'll probably be pushing around 20 psi, so you could either crush the stock BPV or get an aftermarket BPV.

I'm running a Blouch Dominator 1.5 XTR with the Cobb fuel system and hit 363WHP on a Dyno Dynamics at 62% ethanol mixture. The tuner first tuned with 93 and then put flex fuel in the tank to complete the tune. After burning off a couple tanks, I'm at 74% ethanol (probably our winter mix); if my understanding is correct, this should improve reliability or at least reduce chance of detonation since what I'm filling up with has a higher octane rating than what I was tuned on.

ALSO, my BPV hose is slightly crushed under my throttle body, which causes it to make a high-pitched noise instead of a woosh/pshhh; kinda sounds like a big dump truck between gears. After you install the Cobb fuel system and AOS, there might be a lot of extra crap between the block and intake manifold, this might make it difficult to run the BPV hose. My Cobb turbo inlet isn't trimmed, so I'm wondering if I need to trim it to shift the BPV away from the TB, but I'm not currently optimistic that trimming the inlet hose will give me that much room.
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Old 12-27-2019, 04:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoye View Post
The Cobb flex fuel kit (SUB000FSFF) and supporting mods should get you to 350WHP on stock turbo but you'll probably be pushing around 20 psi, so you could either crush the stock BPV or get an aftermarket BPV.

I'm running a Blouch Dominator 1.5 XTR with the Cobb fuel system and hit 363WHP on a Dyno Dynamics at 62% ethanol mixture. The tuner first tuned with 93 and then put flex fuel in the tank to complete the tune. After burning off a couple tanks, I'm at 74% ethanol (probably our winter mix); if my understanding is correct, this should improve reliability or at least reduce chance of detonation since what I'm filling up with has a higher octane rating than what I was tuned on.

ALSO, my BPV hose is slightly crushed under my throttle body, which causes it to make a high-pitched noise instead of a woosh/pshhh; kinda sounds like a big dump truck between gears. After you install the Cobb fuel system and AOS, there might be a lot of extra crap between the block and intake manifold, this might make it difficult to run the BPV hose. My Cobb turbo inlet isn't trimmed, so I'm wondering if I need to trim it to shift the BPV away from the TB, but I'm not currently optimistic that trimming the inlet hose will give me that much room.
You shouldn't need to crush the OEM BOV with only 20psi.
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Old 12-27-2019, 04:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperSTI View Post
No one has done it yet so no one will have the answers.
Hell, from what I can find anywhere there are no solid piece of info on how big of a change they did for internals.
So until things are known I would just enjoy the car and let others be the guinipigs.
Well... quite a few people have done it already and are running and tuning the latest block without notable publicized issues. Keep in mind the upgrades came in for the 2018 Type RA; so that's about 3 years and 4 models (taking into account the S209) worth of "data". That's 2018 RA, 2019, S209 and 2020.

But yes... no one will have all the answers. As always, it is a bit of trial and error, and nobody wants to be on the error side. From what I have seen.... the reliable number seems to be around 450whp, which is pretty decent. I would say it is a mix between the upgraded internals, and the collective tuning experience which has definitely been improving for a few yrs already.

I found the stock 2019 really good. Easily better than a Stage 1 of the previous models.

From my side (2019 STI), I've been on Stage 2 Cobb OTS for about a year and 10,000 km mix of daily and mountain/highway driving. So far ZERO issues. The car pulls very strong, good early power and a noticeable kick when the turbo spools to peak (it spools a lot quicker with the downpipe). This makes it really fun. Also, lots of pops and crackles.

Gotta say, I'm on my winter setup = 18" Enkei TM7 which are a lot lighter than stock 19s and the "power gain" is noticeable. I'm on winter tires, so grip went down and I can't really crush turns like I did on summer rubber... but still, and it gets said a lot, but I'll repeat it: anyone modding for power, get lighter wheels.

I'm considering the Stage 3 next year, but will wait to see if next gen appeals to me. If it sucks; I'll finish it with a mild drop, rear sway, TMIC and Stage 3 and call it for a few years...

Last edited by F1EA; 12-29-2019 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 12-27-2019, 06:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoye View Post
The Cobb flex fuel kit (SUB000FSFF) and supporting mods should get you to 350WHP on stock turbo but you'll probably be pushing around 20 psi, so you could either crush the stock BPV or get an aftermarket BPV.

I'm running a Blouch Dominator 1.5 XTR with the Cobb fuel system and hit 363WHP on a Dyno Dynamics at 62% ethanol mixture. The tuner first tuned with 93 and then put flex fuel in the tank to complete the tune. After burning off a couple tanks, I'm at 74% ethanol (probably our winter mix); if my understanding is correct, this should improve reliability or at least reduce chance of detonation since what I'm filling up with has a higher octane rating than what I was tuned on.

ALSO, my BPV hose is slightly crushed under my throttle body, which causes it to make a high-pitched noise instead of a woosh/pshhh; kinda sounds like a big dump truck between gears. After you install the Cobb fuel system and AOS, there might be a lot of extra crap between the block and intake manifold, this might make it difficult to run the BPV hose. My Cobb turbo inlet isn't trimmed, so I'm wondering if I need to trim it to shift the BPV away from the TB, but I'm not currently optimistic that trimming the inlet hose will give me that much room.
How do you find the Blouch turbo? What was the reason that you upgraded the turbo from stock?

How much boost can the stock 2020 STi safely hold before it needs to be upgraded?
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Old 12-27-2019, 06:16 PM   #16
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What are some good aftermarket BPV's that you would recommend? Top ones I was thinking of was COBB and Perrin.

Also, as I stated on my original post, I'm probably going to do all the parts I listed in that post all at once with a pro-tune in a year or two.
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Old 12-27-2019, 06:17 PM   #17
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Also, I posted on the Tires and Wheels section of the forum about upgrading wheels and tires.

I'm really wanting to upgrade to 19" gold rims and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires (I like the 19" wheel size better than 18") but I wanted the "poke effect" without using a spacer, so I had a question of using 265 tires and 19 x 9.5 wheels.

Could somebody help me answer that as well?

Last edited by ben_7; 12-27-2019 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 12-28-2019, 11:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_7 View Post
Also, I posted on the Tires and Wheels section of the forum about upgrading wheels and tires.

I'm really wanting to upgrade to 19" gold rims and Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires (I like the 19" wheel size better than 18") but I wanted the "poke effect" without using a spacer, so I had a question of using 265 tires and 19 x 9.5 wheels.

Could somebody help me answer that as well?
Thought for you (and you can get gold), I have fastwrx.com branded flow formed 18" wheels in black (you can get gold or grey), at a very competitive price, and michelin 18" tires. Ride quality improved on the stock 19" tires a lot. That is important for actually grip and wheel safety in my book. And, given the overall tire's design, I think they actually look better than the 19" rubber (and are cheaper).


I went 3+ Michelin because unless on the track they are 95% as good as the 4s but handle rain and slush and cold a lot better. Saved 10 pounds per corner (about..tires may be 2lbs more....so 8/corner).



Here is the a link to the "look":


https://www.fastwrx.com/collections/...l-18x9-5-5x114


Look at customer cars.... I have no financial or other relationship with the vendor, just found these to be good wheels and over the last 6m have had no issues on some roughish suburban roads. I hated the generic center caps they come with so I got STI decal for the caps - it looks quite good now.

Jeff
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Old 12-28-2019, 11:52 AM   #19
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forgive my ignorance... but if you wanted something with more power and a warranty why arent you looking at other brandds with more powerful models???
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Old 12-28-2019, 02:36 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by jcb-memphis View Post
Thought for you (and you can get gold), I have fastwrx.com branded flow formed 18" wheels in black (you can get gold or grey), at a very competitive price, and michelin 18" tires. Ride quality improved on the stock 19" tires a lot. That is important for actually grip and wheel safety in my book. And, given the overall tire's design, I think they actually look better than the 19" rubber (and are cheaper).


I went 3+ Michelin because unless on the track they are 95% as good as the 4s but handle rain and slush and cold a lot better. Saved 10 pounds per corner (about..tires may be 2lbs more....so 8/corner).



Here is the a link to the "look":


https://www.fastwrx.com/collections/...l-18x9-5-5x114


Look at customer cars.... I have no financial or other relationship with the vendor, just found these to be good wheels and over the last 6m have had no issues on some roughish suburban roads. I hated the generic center caps they come with so I got STI decal for the caps - it looks quite good now.

Jeff


Those look nice, but I love how the 19Ē wheels almost fill the wheel wells and embody the six piston brembos, so thatís why Iím looking for 19Ē gold wheels for my STi.
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Old 12-28-2019, 02:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by turboblew View Post
forgive my ignorance... but if you wanted something with more power and a warranty why arent you looking at other brandds with more powerful models???


Thatís a great question! Hereís why:

Iím a fan of the 90ís JDM cars era, I grew up with those cars and I love the raw driving experience it offers.

Iím also looking for a turbo car since Iíve owned several high revving NA cars in my past (Acura Integra Type R, Mazda RX-8) that were fun but nothing that a turbo car could offer in torque-feel and power modification ease when compared to NA motors.

Fast forward to 2020, can you show me a single new car (currently in production) that offers all of the following:

- A true manual transmission with an actual clutch pedal
- Old school turbo charged engine that has a unique note (i.e.: boxer rumble with UELH), turbo lag (I look forward to the surge of torque past 3K rpm), and those sweet turbo whooshes and whistles
- Hydraulic steering so that I can feel everything in the road
- six piston brembo brakes in the front
- Tightened suspension and handling with a good chassis (I donít mind the harsher ride because a sports car should be good at carving corners)
- Aggressive looks
- Huge aftermarket community
- Good old wing (apart from downforce) that reminds me of the 90ís JDM cars (Toyota Supra turbo, Acura Integra Type R, EVO)

The 2020 STi is basically a modern body wrapped around a 90ís heart. Itís like the 2004 STi with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto! lol

There absolutely nothing like it on the market and if the next gen STi goes the way of the FA motor, then this will be the last of an era.

The FA motor gets better gas mileage and is refined, but it sounds like every other four cylinder turbo (with itís ELH). But thatís just it, if I wanted a more powerful refined car, there are plenty on the market.

In a newer performance turbo car, you can barely even hear the turbo! I mean why even show off the fact that engine is turbocharged if you canít really hear it? Back in the 90ís you could hear all the sounds while driving, made you truly feel connected, but with all the refinement today, thatís truly lacking in a sports car, and I believe that the STi is the only car currently offered that embodies the 90ís connected feel of driving!

I wanted a true driverís car that drives and sounds like it while keeping you connected to the road. If the STi was not available, I would have looked for an EVO 9 MR, first gen NSX with the manual, fourth gen Toyota Supra turbo with the manual, or an S2000.

The only thing the STi needs is 350-400whp with similar torque figures. And with my 2020 STi getting upgraded internals, it should be possible, which is why I started this thread to find out if anyone has already reached that power/torque figure reliably.

Last edited by ben_7; 12-28-2019 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 12-28-2019, 03:39 PM   #22
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You should be fine at that power level with a good tune, proper maintenance, and good driving habits.. plenty of people have done it. You'll need to go with flex fuel if you want to reach ~350 whp on the stock turbo.. you won't get there on 91 without a very optimistic dyno.

Here's a good parts recommendation list and power levels:
https://phatbottituning.com/04%2B-st...8-14-wrx-parts

You can also reach out to some of the popular tuners to get their opinion and recommendations for your build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrenTuning View Post
The RA/19 STi engine plain works. They made more HP at stage1/2 than previous years and I have many of them in the 400WHP range for over a year at this point without issue. I'm a big fan and it is a solid upgrade for pre 18 cars who are looking for "a little" more head room and don't want a forged block.
Of course, there's always the chance of a manufacturing defect that would even cause the stock engine to fail. The risk is relatively low, but not impossible. You just have to be willing to forfeit your warranty when you mod and be prepared to pay for repairs out of pocket if something goes wrong.

I highly recommend Ron @ Phatbotti Tuning as your tuner if you're near Anaheim. His tunes are expensive and will likely have a wait list.. but well worth it.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 12-28-2019 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 12-28-2019, 10:25 PM   #23
Fierysun
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Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: So Cal
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2005 Subaru STI
2003 EJ207 S204 Wagon

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Call Yimisport for all your questions. Why waste time with second hand info from here, when you can get it directly from the source?
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:45 PM   #24
james-30
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My 2019 sti build. Currently around 450 wheel.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2892143
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:52 AM   #25
BlackFighter
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2004 WRX STI Black
RalliSpec Shortblock

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Forge BPV will work for you and will give you that nice boost sound. Forge has been used a lot on subies and you can change the spring in them.

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1633274
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