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Old 02-08-2012, 12:36 PM   #101
rallyracersti
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why not just keep the old header and have it fixed ? you already have the o2 bung welded in.like u said its your dd,no need for a long downtime.reading this review has stopped me from pulling the trigger on a set. instead i figure i'll save a bit more for a killerb header.please continue to update this thread with your progress
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:51 PM   #102
CTSparky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyracersti
why not just keep the old header and have it fixed ? you already have the o2 bung welded in.like u said its your dd,no need for a long downtime.reading this review has stopped me from pulling the trigger on a set. instead i figure i'll save a bit more for a killerb header.please continue to update this thread with your progress
I would have loved for BATLground to have paid the $167 to weld the original header. That was actually the option I was pushing for.

BATLground would not do that. Instead they sent me a new header/ up pipe combo, and wanted the old parts back. This is a much more expensive option and aside from the cost of the product and shipping ( which they paid for) I have been footing the bill on the installation. Nevermind the cost of coating he header in the first place.

I think I did find the problem in the design of the system. At the first bend on the original header the TIG. Weld did not go through to the inside of the metal.

Also did I tell you that another subie owner in the same car club as me is also having an exhaust leak on his car?! He can't even drive his car since the exhaust gasses are coming into he cabin. He has headaches from it.

Anyways onto more news: yesterday I had the same installer install the new header combo. He said that he needed to open header to up pipe bolts again but said that the header to head connection although not great was better this time.
There as no leaks and I'm loving the sound I grew accustomed to again.
In sport mode (on the same tune as before) I can only hit 12psi but in a quick test of sport# I could hit my target boost.

Tomorrow I go back to my speed shop and have them retune the car (also at my cost). I'll try to ask them to give me a pretune printout.

I'll let all of you know what the final results are.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:06 PM   #103
CTSparky
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Angry Update

So yesterday I went down to my tuner. It was supposed to be a quick retune and check that the new placement of the O2 sensor was not throwing anything off. According to my tuner I was being @nal, and I agree, but with my history of this product I wanted to make sure everything was working according to spec.
After the new install I was only able to hit 12.2 psi of boost (The map was set to 16)

The car went on the dyno.... and after a few pulls he calls me over.

This isn't good.

He tells me that something is wrong and asks me about any modifications I made to the car since he last saw it. Aside from an AOS there has been no engine/exhaust mods put in. I tell him about removing the intercooler and he says that something is way off.
So we do a smoke test to check for vacuum leaks and nothing shows up.

He does another set of pulls to check the car.

Results are that from the last header to this:
I'm down 39 HP (269)
and I'm down 21 ft lbs of torque (351)

My tuner tells me that my injector duty cycle is down, and that he had to really lower wastegate duty cycle... indicating an exhaust leak.

I do not hear a leak. Currently the car is up on jack stands waiting for me to crawl under and check for soot. I did use the new gaskets given to me to put it in. I will also take it to the shop for them to put it on a lift to check it out as well.

I'm out the money for the tune.. I really don't want to add up the amount of money wasted with this product. I think I'm over $1000. (This isn't including the original cost to buy the header).

I'm tempted to just take off the header and put the exhaust manifold back on the car.

If only they made the product fit better.

Please learn from my lesson and don't get this product.
C/N: I no longer recommend this product.

P.S. I'd recommend the Invidia one piece EQL or Full Race... others may also do well ask your tuner.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:22 PM   #104
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Thanks you for the update.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:23 PM   #105
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Sorry to hear about your problems!

Have you relayed this info to the manufacturer yet? I can't imagine they'd let something like this go without stepping up and making it right. Otherwise it's a self-fullfilling prophecy.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:18 PM   #106
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Damn.

Glad I ordered the Tomei.

Good luck Sparky.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:40 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Sorry to hear about your problems!

Have you relayed this info to the manufacturer yet? I can't imagine they'd let something like this go without stepping up and making it right. Otherwise it's a self-fullfilling prophecy.
I did contact the manufacturer. I am going the route they wanted me to go. I sent them back the old header and they sent me a new one. I had asked them to repair the first one, but they did not want to do that. They did not want to nor did they pay for the installation, nor the tuning sessions (plural).

I put the new header in at my cost, and had them reroute the O2 sensor where they wanted in the downpipe. This resulted in me getting the second tuning session.

I think that part does produce power if you are willing to deal with multiple fitment issues and the possibility of the part cracking.

I'm sick of it. I should have gotten a different header but I was lured into a trap due to the cost and the possibility to get great results without spending a ton of money. I lost.

Last edited by CTSparky; 02-12-2012 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:52 PM   #108
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Some of us foresaw this in the beginning, but hoped for the best.

Here is a review that I came across some time ago but didn't want to be the "bad guy" again so I've kept my mouth shut. I've written Batleground trying to get them to do the right thing and never got an answer. The sad part is, CTSparky had to take one for the team. I admire his conduct.

Here is that review: http://www.yelp.com/biz/batlground-m...neering-smyrna

While I didn't go about it right in my first post in this thread, because at the time there was no "right" way, I meant what I said.
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:36 PM   #109
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Oh and as an aside I put the stickers I get on the intact tract/ scoop of the car. So far the stickers are a list of who's who in Subaru's.. I did have them on my car.... Did...
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #110
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Default pictures of the leak.

these are the pictures... the dark area is NOT a shadow.




header part 2 002 by CTSparky, on Flickr


header part 2 001 by CTSparky, on Flickr
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:01 PM   #111
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Throw it out.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:06 PM   #112
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Up to turbo leaks can be harder to track down since they sometimes don't make the obvious sound you get from a header to head leak.

Considering the amount of time/miles since re-install, and tuning results that's a heftly leak.

I would check to see if the up-pipe flange is too big to work properly with the gasket (unlikely, but you never know). See if the up-pipe to turbo flange is warped from welding, we grind ours to make sure they are FLAT. Or the up-pipe and header may just be binding. That can sometimes be solved buy loosening everything, then hand tightening and finally re-tightening everything starting with the up-pipe. Unfortunately, you'd need new gaskets too.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:23 PM   #113
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojak77 View Post
Throw it out.
I'm going to make it work darnit!.. I would throw it out but I'm in for too much anyways.. Unless Killer B wants to donate a holy header since I've had such problems... heh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Up to turbo leaks can be harder to track down since they sometimes don't make the obvious sound you get from a header to head leak.

Considering the amount of time/miles since re-install, and tuning results that's a hefty leak.

I would check to see if the up-pipe flange is too big to work properly with the gasket (unlikely, but you never know). See if the up-pipe to turbo flange is warped from welding, we grind ours to make sure they are FLAT. Or the up-pipe and header may just be binding. That can sometimes be solved buy loosening everything, then hand tightening and finally re-tightening everything starting with the up-pipe. Unfortunately, you'd need new gaskets too.
KillerB: I did not hear the pfft sound I normally did. I checked all of the other areas and found no leaks.

I'm going to have the shop that installed it reinstall with a new gasket and some copper sealant. I will also pass along the information that you have so that potentially I can have it fit again.

Thanks guys.. I know you know how I feel. You should have seen the look on Chris's face when the results came in. He wanted to help but there was no place to put the car on the lift.... He was jam packed.
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:01 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSparky View Post
I'm going to have the shop that installed it reinstall with a new gasket and some copper sealant. I will also pass along the information that you have so that potentially I can have it fit again.
I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that the copper sealant will work on temperatures that high.

Maybe try this: http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/pr...products_id=61 It's supposed to be 22% thicker than stock.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:07 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS View Post
I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that the copper sealant will work on temperatures that high.

Maybe try this: http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/pr...products_id=61 It's supposed to be 22% thicker than stock.
you are right.. I'm getting the car fixed hopefully tomorrow so i won't be able to get the gasket in time.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:54 PM   #116
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and i had high hopes for this header. its a damn shame. only ones im even considering now are killer B's holy header or full race 1.5 scroll header. atleast they make there headers with quality material and stand by their header 100%.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:59 PM   #117
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so I'm guessing these are the people actually having them made:

https://www.privatelabelmfg.com/category_s/55.htm
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:22 AM   #118
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I hate to say it, but when you support knockoff companies by buying their parts, it's hard to have any sympathy for the parts failing
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:33 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyracersti View Post
why not just keep the old header and have it fixed ?
the problem with these overseas manifolds is that they are made with poor materials and awful welding/fabrication techniques done by people who have never even seen a subaru engine or a turbocharger. These factories dont understand what the parts do and what it takes to make them live, as a result corners are cut like no backpurging and leaving gaps between the welds... guaranteed to crack just a matter of time

this is especially sad to see, as we "used to" sponsor Batlground's drift team. Big mistake, aholes! Oh well, just a matter of time until people know batlground = SSautochrome = APC = OBX..

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSparky View Post
P.S. I'd recommend the Invidia one piece EQL or Full Race... others may also do well ask your tuner.
we are a small company who prides ourselves on our engineering/R&D and epic fabrication quality. every Full-Race header is designed and mfg'd in-house, under one roof in Phoenix, AZ.

Invidia is also an overseas copycat company fyi

Quote:
Originally Posted by srninjastar View Post
and i had high hopes for this header. its a damn shame. only ones im even considering now are killer B's holy header or full race 1.5 scroll header. atleast they make there headers with quality material and stand by their header 100%.
supporting guys who innovate and give back to this industry is what will keep things around for the future. I know good work isnt cheap, but sending your $ to china for shoddy knockoffs is not going to push this industry forwards. Shame on batlground for being scheisters
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:19 AM   #120
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Sorry it had to go down like this CTSparky. Many of us have been there. Just make sure to let others know so they can avoid the same issues in the future.

Good luck bud!!
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:29 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSparky View Post
So yesterday I went down to my tuner. It was supposed to be a quick retune and check that the new placement of the O2 sensor was not throwing anything off. According to my tuner I was being @nal, and I agree, but with my history of this product I wanted to make sure everything was working according to spec.
After the new install I was only able to hit 12.2 psi of boost (The map was set to 16)

The car went on the dyno.... and after a few pulls he calls me over.

This isn't good.

He tells me that something is wrong and asks me about any modifications I made to the car since he last saw it. Aside from an AOS there has been no engine/exhaust mods put in. I tell him about removing the intercooler and he says that something is way off.
So we do a smoke test to check for vacuum leaks and nothing shows up.

He does another set of pulls to check the car.

Results are that from the last header to this:
I'm down 39 HP (269)
and I'm down 21 ft lbs of torque (351)

My tuner tells me that my injector duty cycle is down, and that he had to really lower wastegate duty cycle... indicating an exhaust leak.

I do not hear a leak. Currently the car is up on jack stands waiting for me to crawl under and check for soot. I did use the new gaskets given to me to put it in. I will also take it to the shop for them to put it on a lift to check it out as well.

I'm out the money for the tune.. I really don't want to add up the amount of money wasted with this product. I think I'm over $1000. (This isn't including the original cost to buy the header).

I'm tempted to just take off the header and put the exhaust manifold back on the car.

If only they made the product fit better.

Please learn from my lesson and don't get this product.
C/N: I no longer recommend this product.

P.S. I'd recommend the Invidia one piece EQL or Full Race... others may also do well ask your tuner.

You should edit your original post with this information so people can not be miss led by reading only page 1.

Stick with quality american/japan made or OEM. Subaru headers are just too complex to be done cheaply. So much piping welds to expand and contract at different rates equals cracking if not engineered and welded correctly.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:00 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
I'm not trying to be an ass, (just being genuinely inquisitive) but who are they copying? I would love to find who manufactures the original version of my Q300 catback and catted downpipe.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:09 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YZ86 View Post
Looks great in my opinion. in for more info
The looks are nothing. All they did was brush the header afterwards to make it look good. No biggie.

It is still a knock off.
You get what you pay for!
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:49 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS View Post
I'm not trying to be an ass, (just being genuinely inquisitive) but who are they copying? I would love to find who manufactures the original version of my Q300 catback and catted downpipe.
Same. I thought they were legit but after reading this thread I'm a bit puzzled. My car came with an N1 turboback. This thread made me realize the importance of not cutting corners. Sorry for what happened to OP.
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:46 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSparky View Post
I have yet to get tuned but I had the header put in yesterday and rather than start my own thread I thought it worthwhile to put my impressions here.
We are not sure why you decided to do this. It has made it confusing for everyone but here we are and we are doing our best to handle the situation given the circumstances. For the future and to eliminate confusion we would appreciate everyone making their own review thread. If a moderator is reading this maybe they can see the benefit of separating this thread into 2 separate ones

We have read through the entire thread and I addressed as much of the relevant information as I could in the last email that was written to CTSparky. Here is the email that was written.

First, let me apologize for the problems you have been experiencing. We have sold thousands of headers from this manufacturer in the past several years and have experienced little to no problems with the product. This is the first Subaru header we have resold and we really appreciate your feedback and patience.

I have gathered that you are upset that you had to remove the header from your vehicle and send it back to us. First, let me address the reason we like to have the header back. This is two fold: #1 and most importantly is that we like to inspect the headers for any issues that could be ongoing so that we can give feedback to the manufacturer on potential design changes. That is pretty standard as it pertains to quality control. We have sold quite a few of these Subaru headers thus far and have not heard of any issues until yours (aside from one complaint regarding maybe using a thicker gasket). We rely on customer feedback if any issues arise. We did run the test prototype for about 6 months before putting these on the market. We have since installed several of these ourselves and so have other experienced Subaru shops with no issue. #2 is that it is general policy for any warranty item to be inspected to make sure that it is eligible for warranty. This is not just our policy. This is the manufacturer policy. In fact, every manufacturer that we resell for has the same policy (we resell for more than 200 manufacturers). A number of things could occur that void a warranty such as modification of the product or incorrect installation, etc. This is pretty standard procedure for a manufacturer warranty.

Now onto your new header. I have been informed of the review thread on Nasioc and noticed that you posted that you are having an exhaust leak problem. Could you please let us know what is happening with this so that we know how to address the problem with the manufacturer? Also, would you be so kind as to send me back the tracking number for the header you sent back so that I can be sure to keep up with this headers progress. We are not reselling the product until we talk to the manufacturer and can verify that this is an isolated incident.

Since we have sold a number of these headers and it seems that our reputation is at stake for selling them we are conducting our own internal investigation on the product and the problems that you are having. We would very much appreciate it if you could give us some more feedback on the gaskets and the flanges. If you dont mind can you please take some pictures of the area where the exhaust leak is while it is still installed. We appreciate the photos you posted but they are just too dark to see everything. If you can take some pictures of the hardware mounting the turbo to the uppipe, without the heat shield installed, taken from the top and bottom that would be great. This will help us in making the decision on whether the gaskets and hardware are satisfactory or not. We also need to determine if the flanges are warping or not. If you dont give us feedback, it will make it hard to address the problems with the manufacturer because we have not heard of any other issues from any other customers thus far. Once the manufacturer has received the header and we have had a chance to discuss where the problem lies and how it originated, we will reassess how to deal with your individual case as it pertains to your losses. We generally do not even send out a new header until we receive the old one, but we understood your concern with having your car down, so we shipped one out immediately.


Out of professionalism and respect for Full Race I will be contacting them personally to handle the rest of the comments.
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