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Old 02-16-2012, 03:00 PM   #126
jay25RS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinz0r View Post
Same. I thought they were legit but after reading this thread I'm a bit puzzled. My car came with an N1 turboback. This thread made me realize the importance of not cutting corners. Sorry for what happened to OP.
From the linked website:
Quote:
In 2001 JETWORLD imported a line of Invidia brand exhaust system products for automobiles and owned the exclusive marketing rights in United States. JETWORLD supplies this line to a vast array of entities including retailers, distributors.
Seems like they are just the importer/exporter for INVIDIA products, not the manufacturer and not copying things.

Oh NOESSS, Volk/ Rays wheels, Yokohama Wheels (Advan), ARC, Expelir and Procject Mu are all copy rip off items since they are imported to the US by Mackin http://www.mackinindustries.com/ a similar type of arrangement that Invidia has to Jetworld.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:28 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS View Post
From the linked website:


Seems like they are just the importer/exporter for INVIDIA products, not the manufacturer and not copying things.

Oh NOESSS, Volk/ Rays wheels, Yokohama Wheels (Advan), ARC, Expelir and Procject Mu are all copy rip off items since they are imported to the US by Mackin http://www.mackinindustries.com/ a similar type of arrangement that Invidia has to Jetworld.
I dug deeper and found that they where knocking stuff off. Maybe you should as well.

On another note. And one that Jay brings up. What about Rota? They are the kings of knock off wheels.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:58 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R

I dug deeper and found that they where knocking stuff off. Maybe you should as well.
Care to point me in the right direction? Send a PM if you want to.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:03 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Batlground View Post
We are not sure why you decided to do this. It has made it confusing for everyone but here we are and we are doing our best to handle the situation given the circumstances. For the future and to eliminate confusion we would appreciate everyone making their own review thread. If a moderator is reading this maybe they can see the benefit of separating this thread into 2 separate ones

We have read through the entire thread and I addressed as much of the relevant information as I could in the last email that was written to CTSparky. Here is the email that was written.

First, let me apologize for the problems you have been experiencing. We have sold thousands of headers from this manufacturer in the past several years and have experienced little to no problems with the product. This is the first Subaru header we have resold and we really appreciate your feedback and patience.

I have gathered that you are upset that you had to remove the header from your vehicle and send it back to us. First, let me address the reason we like to have the header back. This is two fold: #1 and most importantly is that we like to inspect the headers for any issues that could be ongoing so that we can give feedback to the manufacturer on potential design changes. That is pretty standard as it pertains to quality control. We have sold quite a few of these Subaru headers thus far and have not heard of any issues until yours (aside from one complaint regarding maybe using a thicker gasket). We rely on customer feedback if any issues arise. We did run the test prototype for about 6 months before putting these on the market. We have since installed several of these ourselves and so have other experienced Subaru shops with no issue. #2 is that it is general policy for any warranty item to be inspected to make sure that it is eligible for warranty. This is not just our policy. This is the manufacturer policy. In fact, every manufacturer that we resell for has the same policy (we resell for more than 200 manufacturers). A number of things could occur that void a warranty such as modification of the product or incorrect installation, etc. This is pretty standard procedure for a manufacturer warranty.

Now onto your new header. I have been informed of the review thread on Nasioc and noticed that you posted that you are having an exhaust leak problem. Could you please let us know what is happening with this so that we know how to address the problem with the manufacturer? Also, would you be so kind as to send me back the tracking number for the header you sent back so that I can be sure to keep up with this headers progress. We are not reselling the product until we talk to the manufacturer and can verify that this is an isolated incident.

Since we have sold a number of these headers and it seems that our reputation is at stake for selling them we are conducting our own internal investigation on the product and the problems that you are having. We would very much appreciate it if you could give us some more feedback on the gaskets and the flanges. If you dont mind can you please take some pictures of the area where the exhaust leak is while it is still installed. We appreciate the photos you posted but they are just too dark to see everything. If you can take some pictures of the hardware mounting the turbo to the uppipe, without the heat shield installed, taken from the top and bottom that would be great. This will help us in making the decision on whether the gaskets and hardware are satisfactory or not. We also need to determine if the flanges are warping or not. If you dont give us feedback, it will make it hard to address the problems with the manufacturer because we have not heard of any other issues from any other customers thus far. Once the manufacturer has received the header and we have had a chance to discuss where the problem lies and how it originated, we will reassess how to deal with your individual case as it pertains to your losses. We generally do not even send out a new header until we receive the old one, but we understood your concern with having your car down, so we shipped one out immediately.


Out of professionalism and respect for Full Race I will be contacting them personally to handle the rest of the comments.
I recieved this email yesterday. I am in the process of complying with the email. I will update further when I get the chance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo27 View Post
You should edit your original post with this information so people can not be miss led by reading only page 1.

Stick with quality american/japan made or OEM. Subaru headers are just too complex to be done cheaply. So much piping welds to expand and contract at different rates equals cracking if not engineered and welded correctly.
I will in update my first post.

in this quote my responses are in this color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post
the problem with these overseas manifolds is that they are made with poor materials and awful welding/fabrication techniques done by people who have never even seen a subaru engine or a turbocharger. These factories dont understand what the parts do and what it takes to make them live, as a result corners are cut like no backpurging and leaving gaps between the welds... guaranteed to crack just a matter of time

Well I certainly hope not. But you never know.

this is especially sad to see, as we "used to" sponsor Batlground's drift team. Big mistake, aholes! Oh well, just a matter of time until people know batlground = SSautochrome = APC = OBX..

we are a small company who prides ourselves on our engineering/R&D and epic fabrication quality. every Full-Race header is designed and mfg'd in-house, under one roof in Phoenix, AZ.

I have full respect for your company. I didn't know this was similar to your header until at the end of the purchase decision.

Invidia is also an overseas copycat company fyi

Invidia is a japanese company. The US rights are given to jetworld. Similar to beer companies and other industries across the globe.


supporting guys who innovate and give back to this industry is what will keep things around for the future. I know good work isnt cheap, but sending your $ to china for shoddy knockoffs is not going to push this industry forwards. Shame on batlground for being scheisters
For what it is worth this piece is made in California. Not overseas.
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:53 AM   #130
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I got my retune finished yesterday and it is basically the same graph as before. No leaks, and the car feels "right" once again.

Yesterday I called BATLground, and also emailed the owner. I'm waiting to hear back from them so that I can give them my recommendations.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:23 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by CTSparky View Post
I got my retune finished yesterday and it is basically the same graph as before. No leaks, and the car feels "right" once again.

Yesterday I called BATLground, and also emailed the owner. I'm waiting to hear back from them so that I can give them my recommendations.
How's the coolant issue?
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:27 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by CTSparky
I got my retune finished yesterday and it is basically the same graph as before. No leaks, and the car feels "right" once again.

Yesterday I called BATLground, and also emailed the owner. I'm waiting to hear back from them so that I can give them my recommendations.
How did you fix the leak?
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:24 PM   #133
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sparky from your experience it sounds as if it has been nothing but a costly headache. sorry dude.glad your car is back to its sweet spot despite the amount of $ you had to shell out
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:44 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by rallyracersti
sparky from your experience it sounds as if it has been nothing but a costly headache. sorry dude.glad your car is back to its sweet spot despite the amount of $ you had to shell out
Yeah the benefits from a performance standpoint are there. But it isn't worth the price.

My last communication with Batlground had me suggesting to hem that the main problem with header is that the gaskets they provide may not seal well. I'm sure they are following up on it.

Now this doesn't explain the header cracking but my thought is that the drilled holes need to be opened, according to my installer. He thinks the header is under stress. From what I do not know but perhaps the pipes need to be bent a bit more?

Again I'm not sure.

I have not taken off the heat shield and taken more pictures since I have a small start of a tear in my elbow so I don't want to have to change it yet.

In summary my car is fixed and I'm done spending money in this part of the car. If you buy this product be prepared to deal with what comes.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #135
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Hey Sparky!

How's the header holding up?
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:02 PM   #136
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So far the header is holding up well.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:48 AM   #137
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Any updates?
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:35 AM   #138
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so is this a direct copy of the full-race manifold made by a place called privatelabelmfg and rebranded by batlground?
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:09 AM   #139
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Any updates?
^^^ Still curious.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:25 PM   #140
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I just bought a set from a member here... should arrive today... going to get them ceramic coated before install and let everyone know....
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:15 PM   #141
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going to get them ceramic coated before install and let everyone know....
This is what may have contributed to the crack on Sparky's header...
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:11 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS

This is what may have contributed to the crack on Sparky's header...
Really... I didnt read that.... Great... I guess i should wrap them...
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:40 AM   #143
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Really... I didnt read that.... Great... I guess i should wrap them...
That's a negative too... Batlground originally said that it was okay to wrap or coat them... then after Sparky's failed they said not to coat or wrap them because the higher heat caused the failure.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:52 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS

That's a negative too... Batlground originally said that it was okay to wrap or coat them... then after Sparky's failed they said not to coat or wrap them because the higher heat caused the failure.
My coater said that there was no way the coating caused the header to crack. When I checked the header it seemed that one of the welds was incomplete.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:32 AM   #145
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But Batlground who originally said that it was cool to wrap or coat their product changed their mind. (And of course your coater who makes money by coating things would say there's no way it would cause that problem whether it did or not.)

[edit: I don't think a coating should hurt the header in any way but Batlground changed their minds from saying pretty much to do what you want to don't coat or wrap it after Sparky's problem.]

Last edited by jay25RS; 04-24-2012 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:30 AM   #146
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This is interesting. We recommend coating headers, if time and budget permits, because it eliminates surface corrosion. IMO a thermal coating doesn't increase temps significantly, it insulates the metal, holding in the heat.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:15 AM   #147
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KillerB, a bit OT but any chance you'll have your header with a coating at WBM this year?
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:17 AM   #148
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because it eliminates surface corrosion.
I don't know man... My car was used for 3 track days at Willow Springs. 1 drive from SF to Phx non stop. And PHX to LA and back for Subiefest. All this being just over two years old. The rest of the time is sat in the shop that built it or in my garage at home. Not very much driving reguardless.





And you can see the crap flake right off. When FullRace was asked.. Not only was Raffy really rude, But I never got a call back by Geoff about it.

I have even better photos as well.. But to spend the few $100 to get everything coated to just have it flake off is bull ****.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:03 PM   #149
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Thanks all for commenting ... I am just going to coat them in and out... then perhaps wrap them afterwards.... It shouldn't hurt.... then if the break or crack i will just put stock ones back on and hopefully repair the headers... BTW.. curious on where to weld the o2 bung.. I assume on the Uppipe but where..???
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:18 PM   #150
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KillerB, a bit OT but any chance you'll have your header with a coating at WBM this year?
There will definitely our header on a car with Swain Tech coating. For display it will depend, as right now we have a backorder and can't seem to make them fast enough

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R View Post
I don't know man... My car was used for 3 track days at Willow Springs. 1 drive from SF to Phx non stop. And PHX to LA and back for Subiefest. All this being just over two years old. The rest of the time is sat in the shop that built it or in my garage at home. Not very much driving reguardless.




And you can see the crap flake right off. When FullRace was asked.. Not only was Raffy really rude, But I never got a call back by Geoff about it.

I have even better photos as well.. But to spend the few $100 to get everything coated to just have it flake off is bull ****.
Hey nice pan!

This is why we ONLY use Swain Tech. It takes 15 days of repeated spraying with molten ceramic and baking in a furnace, over and over and over again to build up the correct thickness. We've not come across a product that rivals its thermal characteristics, and have NEVER had it flake off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qbanz View Post
I am just going to coat them in and out... then perhaps wrap them afterwards.... It shouldn't hurt....
FWIW, I wouldn't coat them on the inside. Flakes of coating hitting a turbine wheel spinning over 100,000 RPMs is bad juju. Most companies, will only coat the inside on N/A cars.

Also, if the coating is good, the wrap is overkill. No testing (that I've see anyway) shows better performance characteristics or reduced underhood temps. The laws of diminishing returns is in play here and you'd likely get a better bang for the buck spending else where.
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