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Old 11-07-2014, 11:13 PM   #1
JarHarms
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Default Subaru 75W-90 Gear Oils

75W-90 Subaru High Performance Gear Oil (HPGO) -VS- 75W-90 Subaru Extra-S Gear Oil (ESGO)
My review is resultant of >THREAD<, and >THREAD<, and my need for actual data rather than guesses. I purchased oil samples and Virgin Oil Analysis (VOA) testing on my own dime. In no means is this a stab at vendors that offer these oils. I have ordered from them with great results. My irritation is with Subaru of America (SOA) sending out documentation to Subaru dealers noting HPGO is an alternative to ESGO. Then SOA stopped dealers from ordering 20L pails of ESOG. So not really "alternative" as much as a "substitution".

Sample #1 confirmed from 20L ESGO pail. (K0322AA093) Showa Shell Sekiyu


Sample #2 direct from the new HPGO bottle. (SOA427V1700) Idemitsu


Sent in same day for same testing.


ESGO VOA result.


HPGO VOA result.


So that is that and now there is comparative data available. These are not the same oil by a long shot. That was pretty obvious since they are blended by entirely different companies. Now with that said. These may not be the same oil but they may have comparable performance. Only time will tell as more people use the HPGO and offer up quality reports of their experience. Yes, yes I know a VOA is not the definitive comparison. However it is a comparison that is repeatable and available to us end users.
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Last edited by JarHarms; 07-01-2017 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Photobucket to Imgur
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:14 PM   #2
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I am certainly not a tribologist.
If ESGO's "magic" actually comes from those elemental properties.....I wonder how HPGO can be expected to perform similarly with (what seems to me) much less of those elements? Don't get me wrong. I want HPGO to perform well, since that is all we are going to get anymore.

Last edited by JarHarms; 11-07-2014 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:23 PM   #3
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reserved...
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Old 11-08-2014, 01:17 AM   #4
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thank you!

HPGO much thicker at 100*C, less additives. True, time will tell. I'll roll the dice...can't make my POS tranny any worse.

Last edited by oaklandish_WRX; 11-08-2014 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 11-08-2014, 02:48 AM   #5
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thank you for taking the time and effort to do this!

just looking at the latter properties like viscosity and flashpoint, does this mean the new hpgo is supposed to be more robust at temp than the extra s?
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Old 11-08-2014, 07:42 AM   #6
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Default Subaru 75W-90 Gear Oils

Possibly but I'm not certain. That is why I left out any comments related to that. I am hoping that higher temperature stability is an advantage.

Last edited by JarHarms; 11-08-2014 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:54 AM   #7
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Wow! Where are the additives?

So the only elemental additives are a much lighter dose of boron and small shot of phosphorus. Oh, and of course there's some sulphur but BS doesn't test for that. Did the HPGO smell any more sulphury?

Maybe there are organic non-metallic additives that don't show up in a uoa. Interesting that the HPGO is a bit thicker at operating temp (similar to Motul Gear 300). I think the lower viscosity of Extra-S (when hot) is one thing that helped shifting.

Thanks for this! Post this at bitog and you may even get comments from a tribologist.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 11-18-2014 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:18 PM   #8
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This is interesting to say the least.

I am going to agree with Dennis that they are using some sort of organic anti wear and cleaning additives that didn't show up. The question is this:

What are these additives?

Now we need someone to post a VOA of the motul 300 75w90 gear oil here in this thread. Dennis do you have one by chance?
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Old 11-18-2014, 07:26 PM   #9
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interesting stuff.

thanks for anteing in, jamie.

ken
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:12 AM   #10
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Default Subaru 75W-90 Gear Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by subi400 View Post
Now we need someone to post a VOA of the motul 300 75w90 gear oil here in this thread. Dennis do you have one by chance?
No, I don't.

The viscosity at 100C is the same, but this new Subaru oil is made by Idemitsu. I doubt they're even similar since Gear 300 is made with ester base stocks and SoA wouldn't sell oil that pricey.

edit: Found an old Gear 300 VOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=706793

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 11-19-2014 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
No, I don't.

The viscosity at 100C is the same, but this new Subaru oil is made by Idemitsu. I doubt they're even similar since Gear 300 is made with ester base stocks and SoA wouldn't sell oil that pricey.

edit: Found an old Gear 300 VOA.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=706793

-Dennis
Thanks Dennis, I actually just found this post on there yesterday. Did you see the VI? Now I can see why it works in the cold so well.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:29 AM   #12
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Posted at BITOG and waiting for comments from Molakule.



Sorry I misspelled your username, Jarharms. No editing there.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:04 PM   #13
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Thanks for posting it. Feel free to post the actual report images in case someone over there asks for it. "hey, who took my metallic additives?" I like

No worries, my user name may be a bit irregular.

Last edited by JarHarms; 04-19-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:16 AM   #14
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Have any of you guys tried using this new HPGO in your car yet? If so how do you feel it compares to the real extra s? Im debating on what I want to use now.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:26 AM   #15
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I have "some" of it currently in my Forester 5MT but there's other fluids in there too. So probably not the specific feedback you are hoping for. So far no problems. Next refill is planned as completely HPGO so I can get a better idea of what it does alone. Caveat is that this 5MT needs the Synchromesh like an addict needs their fix. So I'm expecting that this particular 5MT will not like the absence of Synchromesh. Heck, I'll still give it a shot just to see what happens. I "might" consider refilling my 6MT with HPGO next go around but not sure yet.
My suspicion is that 75W-90 HPGO is a decent oil. My heartburn is it being suggested as equal or the same as 75W-90 ESGO.
If you end up using HPGO, please get some miles on it and THEN share your experience.

Last edited by JarHarms; 02-21-2017 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:12 PM   #16
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I think Fred Beans and others need to stop marketing what they are selling as Extra-S. Deceptive!
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USCTrojan4JC View Post
I think Fred Beans and others need to stop marketing what they are selling as Extra-S. Deceptive!
Just keep in mind that they were going off of product marketing literature provided by Subaru of America (SOA). I do not blame a dealer that is using the info provided from the MFR. One would "hope" the MFR should know what the heck they are talking about, right?
Also note that Fred Beans (Todd) was specifically active in the HPGO/ESGO comparison effort. HPGO is very likely a great product and have you priced this at your local dealer counter yet (holy crap). Fred Beans' pricing is very good on it.

Last edited by JarHarms; 04-19-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Just keep in mind that they were going off of product marketing literature provided by Subaru of America (SOA). I do not blame a dealer that is using the info provided from the MFG. One would "hope" the MFG should know what the heck they are talking about, right?
Also note that Fred Beans (Todd) was specifically active in the HPGO/ESGO comparison effort. HPGO is very likely a great product and have you priced this at your local dealer counter yet (holy crap). Fred Beans' pricing is very good on it.
I ordered 5 quarts of HPGO from Fred Beans on Amazon in January based on the info in another thread on NASIOC where Fred Beans says HPGO is the same as ESGO. I feel I was deceived. They should at least update the product title and description to make it clear that it is not the same as ESGO.

http://www.amazon.com/Subaru-75W90-Extra-S-Transmission-Fluid/dp/B007L6Q1EK

Where Fred Beans says HPGO *is* Extra S:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&postcount=27

Last edited by USCTrojan4JC; 02-23-2015 at 12:23 AM. Reason: Added hyperlink to where Fred Beans says HPGO is ESGO.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:20 PM   #19
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The Motul 300 results from Blackstone look pretty good don't they? Kind of looks like the Extra S numbers except calcium. Viscosity, and flashpoint are very similar.
I think if anything it sells me on the fact that I'll be using Motul 300 in the spring.
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:40 PM   #20
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There's no shop online that sells the real extra s then? My fluid change is coming up for my 06 this kinda bums me out.
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USCTrojan4JC View Post
I ordered 5 quarts of HPGO from Fred Beans on Amazon in January based on the info in another thread on NASIOC where Fred Beans says HPGO is the same as ESGO. I feel I was deceived. They should at least update the product title and description to make it clear that it is not the same as ESGO.

Amazon.com: Subaru 75W90 Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid - 1 Quart Bottle: Automotive


Where Fred Beans says HPGO *is* Extra S:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&postcount=27

This is false advertising, people who don't post or read the forums are thinking this is extra s when it's not they need to change it to what it really is. Have you put in the fluid yet? If so how's it doing? I've seen a lot of post of people buying this new fluid and nobody's really mentioned the performance of it. I might just have to go with motul.
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soakedntorment View Post
This is false advertising, people who don't post or read the forums are thinking this is extra s when it's not they need to change it to what it really is. Have you put in the fluid yet? If so how's it doing? I've seen a lot of post of people buying this new fluid and nobody's really mentioned the performance of it. I might just have to go with motul.
My car's 180k service is scheduled for April 10th. I am hoping it will reduce or eliminate the grinding when upshifting from 3rd to 4th when the engine is over 4K RPM on my car's 5MT.
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Old 03-03-2015, 11:17 PM   #23
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try swapping a qt of pennzoil syncromesh in right now. bet you it fixes it.
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:41 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
try swapping a qt of pennzoil syncromesh in right now. bet you it fixes it.
half a quart is plenty...and it really sounds like it needs to be drained/refilled
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:26 PM   #25
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I ordered 5 quarts of the Hpgo gonna run with it lets see how it works out.
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