Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday November 22, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > FA Series Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2017, 06:00 PM   #1501
Chuckable
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 447566
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Florida
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
White

Default 15+ WRX Motor failure roll call!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Before this gets out of control with misinformation, lets understand Phil's development is with the BRZ FA engine. It has different heads and block than the WRX FA20. Apples and oranges. The BRZs do have issues with high RPM valvetrain issues though, but again, different heads, RPM range, valves, cams, etc...

My conversation with him was specifically about the WRX FA20 engine.

Haven't seen other reputable builders mention this as a problem with the WRX FA motor, though.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Chuckable; 05-18-2017 at 06:32 PM.
Chuckable is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-18-2017, 08:48 PM   #1502
subieXe
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 387223
Join Date: Apr 2014
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Boston
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
Lapis Blue

Default

Interesting news on the rods
subieXe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 08:16 AM   #1503
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
My comment was really from a piston wall/cylinder wall point of view,
My experience with drop-ins is way worse than yours. I'll never waste my time on them again. I prefer to build an engine once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
I've seen too many duds from "reputable" engine builders lately to have faith in a built block lasting longer than stock under normal or relatively normal conditions
I suppose reputable is subjective, but some good research should clear a lot of that up. With the FAs were still in the development phase with our sleeved engines. I'm not the 'put aftermarket products into a OEM machined block' and release it kind of guy. Late winter we hope to have a product ready for the 2018 season. Like everything else we make, it will not be made for the budget shopper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckable View Post
My conversation with him was specifically about the WRX FA20 engine.

Haven't seen other reputable builders mention this as a problem with the WRX FA motor, though.
I've seen many make assumptions about the WRX based on what they've learned about the BRZ. A lot of this is based of the BRZ coming out 3 years earlier and having the same FA20 engine designation. The engines (WRX vs BRZ) actually have very little in common besides the nomenclature. Think of it like LS engines; a series of engines. My bet is you will see yet another iteration when the STi goes FA as well.

Phil has his reasons, and if that's what he's observed, that's cool. Subaru oiling systems is what we've built our reputation on. We work with shops and race teams all over the world.
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 09:48 AM   #1504
playslikepage71
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395882
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: GR, Michigan
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
My experience with drop-ins is way worse than yours. I'll never waste my time on them again. I prefer to build an engine once.

I suppose reputable is subjective, but some good research should clear a lot of that up. With the FAs were still in the development phase with our sleeved engines. I'm not the 'put aftermarket products into a OEM machined block' and release it kind of guy. Late winter we hope to have a product ready for the 2018 season. Like everything else we make, it will not be made for the budget shopper.

I've seen many make assumptions about the WRX based on what they've learned about the BRZ. A lot of this is based of the BRZ coming out 3 years earlier and having the same FA20 engine designation. The engines (WRX vs BRZ) actually have very little in common besides the nomenclature. Think of it like LS engines; a series of engines. My bet is you will see yet another iteration when the STi goes FA as well.

Phil has his reasons, and if that's what he's observed, that's cool. Subaru oiling systems is what we've built our reputation on. We work with shops and race teams all over the world.
KBM short/long block confirmed?!?!

Factory clearances and tolerances are not as amazing as people think. I think bad builders have given factory blocks an undeservedly good reputation. A factory, unless it is making race engines, probably does not choose exact clearances like a good engine builder will. The mass production parts have an impressively narrow tolerance band, but it is still enough to cause variation.

Do you happen to know if anyone has looked into hot honing Subaru blocks?

The WRX motor is a lot different than the BRZ, but the architecture is common. Don't they use the same crank? Case halves are nearly identical save the accessory mounts, right? Rods, pistons, heads, etc., are all VERY different, I agree. I also agree that the next gen STi will be using the FA platform. A slightly bigger turbo would get them to current STi power without much difference in any other regard.
playslikepage71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 10:04 AM   #1505
simpleJ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 391748
Join Date: May 2014
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: The Shire
Vehicle:
2015 WRX CWP (sold)
2019 STi CWP

Default

They're already at sti power on this motor. A bigger turbo will net them a lot more. We get a neutered tune here for "low quality fuel" (aka not stepping on STi sales)

You'll always be better off with a seasoned block (unless you have to build again). Unfortunately, these cars like to blow up and take their blocks with them...
simpleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 01:53 PM   #1506
Chuckable
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 447566
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Florida
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
KBM short/long block confirmed?!?!

KIllerB, any comment?!?!
Chuckable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 03:02 PM   #1507
mishapopa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 393629
Join Date: Jun 2014
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
They're already at sti power on this motor. A bigger turbo will net them a lot more. We get a neutered tune here for "low quality fuel" (aka not stepping on STi sales)

You'll always be better off with a seasoned block (unless you have to build again). Unfortunately, these cars like to blow up and take their blocks with them...
It's not so much the block I'm afraid for on these cars... it's the heads. The blocks, while expensive, are widely available. The heads seem to be difficult to find.

Swapping the rods is looking like a very viable solution, which is why I'm hoping buddy makes a thread or gives more detail on the process.
mishapopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 08:57 AM   #1508
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
KBM short/long block confirmed?!?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckable View Post
KIllerB, any comment?!?!
I can confirm we're going in that direction. We acquired our first complete FA engine from an insurance institute crash test car back in late-2014, shortly after we started product testing on our shop 2015 WRX. It's something we've been slowly chipping away at amongst everything else we have going. Many people, resources, and testing are required for and endeavor like this. Like our EJ program, it won't be publicly available until we feel it's ready to take on the abuse the market can dish out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
Do you happen to know if anyone has looked into hot honing Subaru blocks?
Not specifically hot honing, but you learn a wealth of info by dissecting an engine at operating temperature. The short of it is, if you understand physical properties and can use a calculator, you can take that learned information and apply it to performing processes at room temperature. I don't believe there is a benefit to performing and processes at temp, but I most certainly believe in precise control of machine and workpiece temperature during processing, no matter what the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
Don't they use the same crank? Case halves are nearly identical save the accessory mounts, right? Rods, pistons, heads, etc., are all VERY different, I agree. I also agree that the next gen STi will be using the FA platform. A slightly bigger turbo would get them to current STi power without much difference in any other regard.
No. If you start examining them closely you'll find many differences. The block has many structural differences, not just nuances to accommodate different models. You put a BRZ sleeve into a WRX block and you'll have a hole in the side of the block. Ask me how I know :/ We're using custom made sleeves specific to the WRX FA20. This was done in cooperation with Darton and will result in a production sleeve becoming available, if it hasn't been released already. Speaking of aftermarket internals availability, on our next test cycle, after the one we're about to start, we'll likely be running a set of pistons of our own.

My hope is that we have an engine to offer by late 2017 to early 2018, but there will be no offering until we're good and ready, so that date is pie in the sky at this point. No way in hell we're going to rush or try to hit a date (to gain market share and make sales) at the risk of offering a compromised product.
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 10:02 AM   #1509
Chuckable
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 447566
Join Date: May 2016
Location: South Florida
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
White

Default

Would love to hear about progress and updates, either on the forum or your website. Your engine won't be cheap, but will be high quality and we'll-tested.
Better start saving now lol
Chuckable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 09:29 PM   #1510
wrxtunerd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135287
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vacaville, CA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
CWP

Angry

Model/Year: WRX 2017
Mileage: 73!
EM: OEM
Mods: None
Fuel: Never filled up. Assuming the dealership put in 91 octane.
Oil: Factory
Circumstances:

First day driving I thought the stock tune felt choppy in second gear. Just wasn't very smooth. Figured it would work itself out as the motor broke in.

The 2nd morning I turned on the car, it went through a strange warm up cycle. It revved then dropped out then repeated a couple times before stabilizing. Waited several minutes before driving it and had no further problems.

Night 2 I went to turn it on to put it in the garage and it did the same type of cycle, but I heard what sounded like a little knock. Went to bed planning on taking it to the dealership the next morning.

3rd morning I woke up and turned the car on while filming just in case it didn't go well. It didn't go well... The car revved then bottomed out and stalled. Failed to start a couple times then started, threw a CEL and idled at about 300-400 rpm just barely staying on. Tons of knock and noise coming from the motor. Turned it off and had it towed to the dealer.

Waiting for them to investigate and then call SOA... I do not want that car back no matter what. Only another new WRX. Such a bummer. Had it 2 and a half days and put 63 miles on it. Was my 5th Suby. I didn't drive it hard, heck my 3 y/o was in the car for at least 50 of those miles... unreal.

Any advice on how to proceed?

Thanks!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7b...ew?usp=sharing
wrxtunerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 09:39 PM   #1511
GlarryHoodDIT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 460907
Join Date: Jan 2017
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2016 WRX

Default

That sucks man obviously was just a miscalibration or misassembly from the factory. Unfortunately, you will have no choice as to what they decide to do warranty wise, and I will almost guarantee you it's not going to involve a brand new car, just a brand new engine - and thats if the shortblock has damage. If the shortblock is fine then the broken components will be fixed, whatever cam be saved will be.

There isn't really any other options for you to proceed, you just have to listen to the dealership and communicate with Subaru of America. expecting an entire new car because of an engine is a bit excessive in my opinion.
GlarryHoodDIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 11:05 PM   #1512
joedreamliner787
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 462457
Join Date: Feb 2017
Vehicle:
2016 WRX Limited
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxtunerd View Post
Model/Year: WRX 2017
Mileage: 73!
EM: OEM
Mods: None
Fuel: Never filled up. Assuming the dealership put in 91 octane.
Oil: Factory
Circumstances:

First day driving I thought the stock tune felt choppy in second gear. Just wasn't very smooth. Figured it would work itself out as the motor broke in.

The 2nd morning I turned on the car, it went through a strange warm up cycle. It revved then dropped out then repeated a couple times before stabilizing. Waited several minutes before driving it and had no further problems.

Night 2 I went to turn it on to put it in the garage and it did the same type of cycle, but I heard what sounded like a little knock. Went to bed planning on taking it to the dealership the next morning.

3rd morning I woke up and turned the car on while filming just in case it didn't go well. It didn't go well... The car revved then bottomed out and stalled. Failed to start a couple times then started, threw a CEL and idled at about 300-400 rpm just barely staying on. Tons of knock and noise coming from the motor. Turned it off and had it towed to the dealer.

Waiting for them to investigate and then call SOA... I do not want that car back no matter what. Only another new WRX. Such a bummer. Had it 2 and a half days and put 63 miles on it. Was my 5th Suby. I didn't drive it hard, heck my 3 y/o was in the car for at least 50 of those miles... unreal.

Any advice on how to proceed?

Thanks!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7b...ew?usp=sharing
Man so sorry to hear this. If you only have 73 miles on the car do not forget about the Lemon Law you are entitled to return the car and the dealer will be forced to buy back from you and you can get a new car but that is only if they do multiple warranty attempts in the same problem keeps happening though. Did you buy it with no miles on the car or did you put the 73 miles on it and how many were on the car at the dealership I know sometimes on test drives customers will take them out and beat the crap out of them. Not very good for the break in...

Last edited by joedreamliner787; 05-28-2017 at 02:07 AM.
joedreamliner787 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 12:03 AM   #1513
wrxtunerd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135287
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vacaville, CA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedreamliner787 View Post
Man so sorry to hear this. If you only have 73 miles on the car do not forget about the Lemon Law you are entitled to return the car and the dealer will be forced to buy back from you and you can get a new car. Did you buy it with no miles on the car or did you put the 73 miles on it and how many were on the car at the dealership I know sometimes on test drives customers will take them out and beat the crap out of them. Not very good for the break in...
I don't really know anything about the Lemon Laws. It had 10 when I bought it and I added 63. It came fresh off the truck. I had ordered it a week earlier.
wrxtunerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 12:42 AM   #1514
simpleJ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 391748
Join Date: May 2014
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: The Shire
Vehicle:
2015 WRX CWP (sold)
2019 STi CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxtunerd View Post
I don't really know anything about the Lemon Laws. It had 10 when I bought it and I added 63. It came fresh off the truck. I had ordered it a week earlier.
Did you check for vacuum leaks?
simpleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 01:36 AM   #1515
joedreamliner787
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 462457
Join Date: Feb 2017
Vehicle:
2016 WRX Limited
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxtunerd View Post
I don't really know anything about the Lemon Laws. It had 10 when I bought it and I added 63. It came fresh off the truck. I had ordered it a week earlier.
As far as the lemon law they have to make repairs under warranty​ and make a number of attempts to fix the car and if failed or you keep having the problem you can claim the lemon law. Keep in mind they can vary state by state if I am not mistaken. There are an insane amount of you tube vids on the subject and some even done by actual attorneys and you will need to sift through to find the good ones. Like the previous user said don't expect a new car especially if SOA makes reasonable attempts to fix it. The last thing any mfg. wants to do is buy back a vehicle. Don't look at this as a bad thing either because I will give you an example. For my company I bought a Mercedes Sprinter Cargo Van 4x4. Always has trouble getting in and out of 4x4 despite following the exact procedure. 2k miles my transfer case blew. Mercedes immediately ordered a new transfer case and in 2 days they had my sprinter back on the road plus they gave me the next major service interval free of charge. I looked underneath the van and the 4x4 engaging actuator is different on the new transfer case aka. it's been updated but never made it a recall. 25k miles later my 4x4 works flawlessly and the dealer is extremely nice to us and understands this is service van so they give us first bay and in/out. In the end I ended up with a much better work vehicle. Work with SOA because they will make it right and they will take care of you. Also ask them for a courtesy service etc..for your troubles. Be kind to your service manager.
joedreamliner787 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 01:38 AM   #1516
joedreamliner787
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 462457
Join Date: Feb 2017
Vehicle:
2016 WRX Limited
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
Did you check for vacuum leaks?
I agree with you but we don't know his mechanical abilities and also he shouldn't be lifting the hood with only 73 miles on it. He did the right thing by bringing it right back to the dealer to have them figure it out.
joedreamliner787 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 01:56 AM   #1517
fredrik94087
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 337075
Join Date: Nov 2012
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: San Jose, CA
Vehicle:
2015 WRX Stg3 SOLD

Default

@wrxtunerd

wish you the best. I was hoping it was an idle issue, but there was a lot of noise from the engine bay.

please keep us posted.
fredrik94087 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 02:17 AM   #1518
wrxtunerd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135287
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vacaville, CA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
Did you check for vacuum leaks?
I didn't.
wrxtunerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 02:23 AM   #1519
wrxtunerd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135287
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vacaville, CA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedreamliner787 View Post
As far as the lemon law they have to make repairs under warranty​ and make a number of attempts to fix the car and if failed or you keep having the problem you can claim the lemon law. Keep in mind they can vary state by state if I am not mistaken. There are an insane amount of you tube vids on the subject and some even done by actual attorneys and you will need to sift through to find the good ones. Like the previous user said don't expect a new car especially if SOA makes reasonable attempts to fix it. The last thing any mfg. wants to do is buy back a vehicle. Don't look at this as a bad thing either because I will give you an example. For my company I bought a Mercedes Sprinter Cargo Van 4x4. Always has trouble getting in and out of 4x4 despite following the exact procedure. 2k miles my transfer case blew. Mercedes immediately ordered a new transfer case and in 2 days they had my sprinter back on the road plus they gave me the next major service interval free of charge. I looked underneath the van and the 4x4 engaging actuator is different on the new transfer case aka. it's been updated but never made it a recall. 25k miles later my 4x4 works flawlessly and the dealer is extremely nice to us and understands this is service van so they give us first bay and in/out. In the end I ended up with a much better work vehicle. Work with SOA because they will make it right and they will take care of you. Also ask them for a courtesy service etc..for your troubles. Be kind to your service manager.
Thanks for the info! I made it a point to treat them right when I got there. It's not their fault. They told me they appreciated my understanding and that it went a long way. I know they'll make it right and things will be all good.
wrxtunerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 02:24 AM   #1520
wrxtunerd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135287
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vacaville, CA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrik94087 View Post
@wrxtunerd

wish you the best. I was hoping it was an idle issue, but there was a lot of noise from the engine bay.

please keep us posted.
Thanks! Will do
wrxtunerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 09:57 AM   #1521
simpleJ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 391748
Join Date: May 2014
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: The Shire
Vehicle:
2015 WRX CWP (sold)
2019 STi CWP

Default

That's a vacuum leak or some airflow problem. Your iC conncetion is bad or your pcv line popped off, or your maf is doa from the factory. Your motor isn't blown. I'll eat my hat if it is.

The last three blown motors haven't actually been blown at all...
simpleJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 10:46 AM   #1522
tramp
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 459629
Join Date: Dec 2016
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Knobbley Mountain
Vehicle:
2017 WRX base
WR Blue

Default

Yeah people automatically assume the worst. I see it all the time at the shop. Does make their day when ya fix it in a few minutes though.
tramp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 11:18 AM   #1523
mishapopa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 393629
Join Date: Jun 2014
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary
Default

seems if these blow, you KNOW they blow. that car had a check engine code, probably the reason it's running like crap.
mishapopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 12:30 PM   #1524
wrxtunerd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135287
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vacaville, CA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
CWP

Default

Hope so! That would be awesome if its something easy.
wrxtunerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 03:14 PM   #1525
tANNERRRR
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 246620
Join Date: May 2010
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Southern CA
Vehicle:
2017 WRX
CWP

Default

I never even thought something as simple as a vacuum leak until he said that. Good point, that's most likely it. Good job just bringing it back to the dealer though so they can take care of it and it'll be noted there was an issue at such low mileage.
tANNERRRR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.