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Old 11-23-2021, 06:02 PM   #3476
dwf137
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Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post
Also, I personally have zero desire to use lane keeping assist or any sort of cruise assistance. That just sounds horrible to me personally. Is it entirely defeatable on the R? I'm not sure.

I've been doing some research lately... there's just really no basic cars anymore with a manual transmission and awd. I think Subaru actually should be complimented for still offering us that here these last few years still.

Having said that, I'm sure I'd love driving the R hard. But I'm confused on how the nannies work and if they are defeatable entirely.
Unless they've drastically changed the nannies from my 2018 (it doesn't look like they have), most can be turned off. On day one I turned off the lake keep feature and never turned it back on because honestly it was dangerous for my driving habits. However, there is no "stupid" cruise control where you just set a speed and can run into someone if you want, it's always adaptive cruise control. You can turn off the emergency braking but I believe that resets itself every drive. I always left it on.

Traction control is mostly defeatable. I was able to maintain a long drift on a snow-covered back road in canada years back without issue. Some of it you can't really turn off though, because of the Haldex - there are always sensors there determining if you have traction so that it can send power to the rear. They did change things for the MK7.5 from the MK7 though... for MK7 there were undefeatable traction control settings unless you bought an OBDeleven device (cheap, absolutely worth it).
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Old 11-23-2021, 09:43 PM   #3477
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I'm curious how many on here that has bought a new Subaru since 2017ish(2016 if they got it from the pilot retailers) refused the LED cause "they know better than the dealer". I'm sure that's the case for many; but, even with some of those type folks, I'm able to point out a feature or two they were unaware of. And the customer gets $25 in free gas! I mean come on!!
Iím sure thatís what people are REAL concerned with making a thirty to forty thousand dollar purchase. Twenty five dollars in free gas.
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Old 11-23-2021, 10:06 PM   #3478
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I'm sure that's what people are REAL concerned with making a thirty to forty thousand dollar purchase. Twenty five dollars in free gas.



Oh you know it. For the most part, my customers forget that's coming to them until I pull the card out to give to them. They just love learning about the car. Cause they DID just spend thirty to forty thousand dollar purchase. Heck, some feel they need to pay/tip me. Others are like "yeah, I know the car well enough, but $25 is $25". And A LOT of our customers make soo much money, yeah, $25 is not a thing. Only about half of our customers come back for it. But, that's mostly because of distance. And a small number of them are just sure we're trying to get them to buy something else. It's fun when I get them to realize I'm GIVING them money(I also joke we're refunding $25 of their purchase). When the program started with the few retailers, it was actually $50. Yeah, I had a better return rate then.



And we've had people like "no, I don't need help" only to be calling me down the line. I somewhat enjoy those.



But, is there another manufacturer that has a program specifically for making sure the customer knows their car AND gives them money, no matter how much, for it? Or do they just say "thanks for the sale" and never follow up?
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Old 11-23-2021, 11:42 PM   #3479
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Oh you know it. For the most part, my customers forget that's coming to them until I pull the card out to give to them. They just love learning about the car. Cause they DID just spend thirty to forty thousand dollar purchase. Heck, some feel they need to pay/tip me. Others are like "yeah, I know the car well enough, but $25 is $25". And A LOT of our customers make soo much money, yeah, $25 is not a thing. Only about half of our customers come back for it. But, that's mostly because of distance. And a small number of them are just sure we're trying to get them to buy something else. It's fun when I get them to realize I'm GIVING them money(I also joke we're refunding $25 of their purchase). When the program started with the few retailers, it was actually $50. Yeah, I had a better return rate then.

And we've had people like "no, I don't need help" only to be calling me down the line. I somewhat enjoy those.

But, is there another manufacturer that has a program specifically for making sure the customer knows their car AND gives them money, no matter how much, for it? Or do they just say "thanks for the sale" and never follow up?
Gotta be honest, I want to spend as little time at the dealer/with the salesperson as possible. Before I buy a vehicle I learn as much as possible about it on my own, arrange the particulars ahead of time, and prefer to only be there for signing papers. Honestly when it comes to mechanical bits & how the vehicle functions, I have known more than the salesperson every time.
I haven't bought a Subaru in a long time (MY06 WRX wagon was my last) so I was not aware of the L.E.D. program, I did test driven a MY19 WRX & MY19 STI, but didn't purchase them. However, knowing about a $25 gas card promo would not have swayed my decision at all, so I wonder why the program exists in the first place; that's not even a tank of gas, which most dealers "throw in" with the sale (at least every dealer I've dealt with).
I can say that when we bought my wifes MY17 Corolla iM hatch, the dealer was insistent on walking her through the particulars of the cars tech, and tried to keep us in the dealership as long as freaking possible.

My dealer experiences with regards to vehicle purchases have been roughly equally crap as far as Ford, Chevy, Cadillac, VW, Subaru, Toyota, BMW & Lexus have been concerned; maybe it's a regional thing, maybe it's just me, but I've found salespeople are salespeople, regardless of what they are selling.

Last edited by Sid03SVT; 11-23-2021 at 11:45 PM. Reason: gotta be woke y'all
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Old 11-24-2021, 12:30 AM   #3480
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Gotta be honest, I want to spend as little time at the dealer/with the salesperson as possible. Before I buy a vehicle I learn as much as possible about it on my own, arrange the particulars ahead of time, and prefer to only be there for signing papers. Honestly when it comes to mechanical bits & how the vehicle functions, I have known more than the salesperson every time.
I haven't bought a Subaru in a long time (MY06 WRX wagon was my last) so I was not aware of the L.E.D. program, I did test driven a MY19 WRX & MY19 STI, but didn't purchase them. However, knowing about a $25 gas card promo would not have swayed my decision at all, so I wonder why the program exists in the first place; that's not even a tank of gas, which most dealers "throw in" with the sale (at least every dealer I've dealt with).
I can say that when we bought my wifes MY17 Corolla iM hatch, the dealer was insistent on walking her through the particulars of the cars tech, and tried to keep us in the dealership as long as freaking possible.

My dealer experiences with regards to vehicle purchases have been roughly equally crap as far as Ford, Chevy, Cadillac, VW, Subaru, Toyota, BMW & Lexus have been concerned; maybe it's a regional thing, maybe it's just me, but I've found salespeople are salespeople, regardless of what they are selling.



LED started in Feb of 2016 with a small group of retailers. Ours was in the 2nd pilot group in March. It came about because of customer satisfaction. There is legit complaints about certain things becoming "too complicated" and that reflects on surveys and that wonderful JD Power stuff. It's been proven that if a person comes back for their LED, they are happier with their purchase. But the "too complicated" is only that if the person refuses to learn. I'd find it interesting if I were able to find a feature you'd not realize if you were to come back to talk to me. I try to make it a point to inform the customer of something they weren't aware of before. From vehicle features to our hours of operation....appointment scheduling.....accessory stuff. Just whatever. We shoot for 30-60 minutes; but, I'm there for the customer. If they need more? Let's go! It's funny cause this program is what I have been doing for the whole time I've worked there. Now, the customer just gets a little extra for it from SOA.

And I think it sucks to hear the bad stories from retailers. We have our fair share of folks that would drag our name in the dirt. Luckily, most of our customers love us. We try to not be pushy cause we'll just make the customer mad and they go elsewhere. Subarus basically selling themselves the last decade has certainly been nice. Right now is hard cause we simply don't have the cars. Normally 120 or so on the lot and I think there was 1 when I was there yesterday.
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Old 11-24-2021, 03:19 PM   #3481
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Nice, so would you say the $10k upgrade to the MK8 Golf R is worth it over the WRX?
Maybe he's saying get ready for the likeliness of disappointment to come from the STI, using this WRX as relevance, and mentally prepare yourself to shop the Golf R.

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Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post
Also, I personally have zero desire to use lane keeping assist or any sort of cruise assistance. That just sounds horrible to me personally. Is it entirely defeatable on the R?
Why would you not want cruise assist, which makes using cruise control even easier? I'm sure the lane assist can be turned off, as it can with almost every vehicle. I'd imagine you can even turn off the front end crash detection, although there would be absolutely no reason to do so unless you were using it on the track.

I haven't heard a single complaint about any of the aforementioned features, leading me to believe they're non issues. The only single complaint I've heard/watched/read about the Golf R are the touch screen controls, but many reviewers say you quickly get used to it.

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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Most Subaru owners don't mind having to swap or beef up their engine, rather than throw money at figuring out why their window won't roll down or trunk won't lock.
I'd hope the electronic issues don't cost 10k, because that's what it will cost to replace an STI EJ. Aside from that, the reputation of electrical issues mostly stems from prior generations.

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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
I am not a collector, I am a driver; I don't go for "fun drives on the weekend" anymore, and I won't again for at least another decade. I have kids and a house, I want all of my drives to be fun drives. I've put hardly any miles on my IS in the past two years, I'll check the ODO later, but I'll be throwing snow tires on it again once the temps stay near freezing regularly, and it will see another winter.

Life is too short, I'll drive the vehicle I want to drive, and that isn't an economy car. Feel free to collect if that's your thing, but it isn't mine.
Exact. Same. Opinion... and general Place in life. Well said. I once did the whole daily driver thing when I had a 350z. Driving it only partially made me lose interest in the 350z.



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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I'd hope there would be someone at the dealer that can explain the features in the car like Subaru does with their Love Encore Delivery program.
This. Also, you would think owners manuals are a thing of the past, right? Even youtube can show buyers features/quirks.


As far as the salesmen showing you features on the cars, and giving you $25, I don't see that as a bad thing. It's just good customer service, despite not being a point of sale. When it comes to knowing more than salesmen, I've found every Civic Si I've looked at, the salesmen have been hilariously under informed. I was in my 15 (prior to the 18) VA STI when I looked at an Si just for the hell of it, which made almost no sense. The sales guy was older, and he had no idea what he was talking about. I waited 3-4 months for my 15 STI to come in when I ordered it, and he tried to sell me on how hard it was to get an Si, and that I'd better act fast. There were 5 other Si's on the lot... What a tool. The car was also laughable. (2017) To make it worse, when I came back from my terribly underwhelming test drive, there were 5-6 Honda employees looking at my car and complimenting me on it. lolol

Last edited by ProZach626; 11-24-2021 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:13 PM   #3482
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Why would you not want cruise assist, which makes using cruise control even easier?
The R is a car where I want the option to use a "stupid" cruise control where it lets me set a speed and won't automatically adjust. However it should still be able to apply the brakes if I'm about to hit someone, just like it would if I were in control of the throttle. I don't mind having the adaptive cruise control and given that the R is ultimately a GT oriented hot hatch, I feel like it's appropriate to have it. But again, I'd like the option to go back to the days of yore, where I can set a speed and it's assumed that I'm paying attention, moving lanes as appropriate, and shutting off cruise control when I need to. What I don't like is the preemptive slow down as I'm approaching a slower moving car. In every car I have driven, it slows down a lot sooner than I would like and forces me to move over a lane a lot earlier than I want to, just so that it doesn't drop my speed. When I use cruise control, I am still 100% paying attention and am capable of adjusting speeds or turning it off when I need to.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:16 PM   #3483
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My Titan does it the way you describe, adaptive in one mode and dumb in the other. I have just been spoiled by adaptive cruise though.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:20 PM   #3484
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My Titan does it the way you describe, adaptive in one mode and dumb in the other. I have just been spoiled by adaptive cruise though.
That's ideal. I would 90% of the time use dumb cruise mode, because I'm a prolific lane changer - even if I'm the fastest person on the road I will move right as soon as I can to leave the left lane clear. That creates issues where I'm frequently having to override the ACC by pressing the gas to keep my speed. Also add in the frustration that ACC generally leaves ample room for someone to cut you off if traffic is piling up... Where I do like ACC is on single lane roads. Does a great job of maintaining the right distance with the car in front, and then I can override with the pedal when I want to pass. But I absolutely hate it on multi-lane highways.
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Old 11-24-2021, 07:56 PM   #3485
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....This. Also, you would think owners manuals are a thing of the past, right? Even youtube can show buyers features/quirks.


As far as the salesmen showing you features on the cars, and giving you $25, I don't see that as a bad thing. It's just good customer service, despite not being a point of sale. When it comes to knowing more than salesmen, I've found every Civic Si I've looked at, the salesmen have been hilariously under informed. I was in my 15 (prior to the 18) VA STI when I looked at an Si just for the hell of it, which made almost no sense. The sales guy was older, and he had no idea what he was talking about. I waited 3-4 months for my 15 STI to come in when I ordered it, and he tried to sell me on how hard it was to get an Si, and that I'd better act fast. There were 5 other Si's on the lot... What a tool. The car was also laughable. (2017) To make it worse, when I came back from my terribly underwhelming test drive, there were 5-6 Honda employees looking at my car and complimenting me on it. lolol

I love Subaru.

I don't love whomever is in charge of writing the manuals. My one favorite example was when the SGP finally hit, the Impreza manual showed instructions on how to work the dual zone climate control. Customer called and was confused cause they couldn't seem to work it. I was like "you don't have it. The Impreza doesn't come with dual zone". Customer "But it's in the manual". I'm thinking surely the customer was reading something wrong and I went and got one. Sure enough, in plain black and white ink. Now, this was in early '17. '17....'18....'19.....'20.....'21.....'22.....STIL L no availability for it. Initially I was thinking maybe they were gonna have it available on the Crosstrek. You know. Lifted Impreza and all. Nope. Only thing that has that setup with dual zone is the Forester. Now, how did the Forester info get in the Impreza manual?

Yes, there are a ton of videos out there. Lots of good ones as well. Many-a-customer telling me they were helpful. Many tell me they were helpful but had additional questions not quite addressed in the videos. Some just can't seem to find the "right" video. And I've watched some that were "good" that also had unnecessary steps in them. And I am sure MANY can't figure it out and just write it off and don't even try..........the ones that complain to places like CR and JD Power.......hence why Subaru puts forth a good effort to help it's customers.

I can't wait for training on the new GT.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:00 PM   #3486
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I love Subaru.

Nobody had any idea schill.
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:06 PM   #3487
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Nobody had any idea schill.
Back to the attacks, eh?
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:26 PM   #3488
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Back to the attacks, eh?
Leave the old man alone, let him be. He still thinks Ford will bring back the failed RS .
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:05 PM   #3489
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Old 11-24-2021, 11:50 PM   #3490
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More plastic!
For the love of God, will it ever end?
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Old 11-25-2021, 12:13 AM   #3491
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More plastic!
For the love of God, will it ever end?
Sadly, no. This car is just a joke now.
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Old 11-25-2021, 01:39 AM   #3492
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Old 11-25-2021, 02:53 AM   #3493
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Itís just a lift kit away, and the circle will be complete.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:30 AM   #3494
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I like it.. a lot!







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Old 11-25-2021, 06:59 AM   #3495
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More plastic!
For the love of God, will it ever end?
So what exactly are you expecting? Carbon Fiber???
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:14 AM   #3496
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That looks amazing! The S4 pics are stunning. Let's hope those bits will eventually be available here from the dealer. That side profile and those wheels are incredible. I love the wide body look.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:21 AM   #3497
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oof, the WRX in white really shows how hideous-looking it really is.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:06 AM   #3498
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I donít hate it in redÖ


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Old 11-25-2021, 10:13 AM   #3499
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I don't hate it in red***8230;
I definitely warmed up to it in the slightest increment. All it really made me do was realize how disappointingly close Subaru was to pretty much nailing it. No plastic black cladding and a less pronounced rear bumper would've been all they needed to do, and did do with the Levorg.
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:18 AM   #3500
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I guess with that body kit it also makes it look less econobox. Def stands out nicely in red.

Edit: I also wonder how many of those S4 interesting features will make it to the US models? The fully digital gauge cluster, that facial recognition scanning, and that little collision warning system that reflects off the windshield.

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