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Old 10-05-2011, 07:59 AM   #4551
amalgrover
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my walbro 255 did okay on Airboy up to about 400whp on stock fuel pressure...after that point the IDC's had to come up and boost down slightly to compensate. the highest i could get it without my AF ratios swinging WAY too lean was around 450whp...that map was WAY too aggressive in terms of AF ratio to run normally though. i only had that as a track map if i ever decided to go...i personally wouldn't recommend running the walbro 255 much over 400whp at stock fuel pressure. it was just too dicey for me to be comfortable with it. everytime the weather or altitude changed drastically, my car would run totally different AFR's.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:24 PM   #4552
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Well I'm figuring I should be around 400whp on a Mustang dyno.. so basically I'm where I thought I would be, right on the edge of its capabilities, which is not where I want to be.


It sounds like my Walbro will work, but I might start seeing inconsistencies in flow in the very top end. I don't imagine I'm going to be running over 26lbs of boost, but I don't want to be limited by a $160 fuel pump, and I certainly don't want it to struggle holding target AFRs with environmental changes.



I always thought if I upgraded to an Aeromotive in tank pump I would also go ahead and get an adjustable FPR with a gauge so I could bump up the pressure to ~60-65psi.. but I suppose the adjustable FPR isn't really necessary.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:44 PM   #4553
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every car is different...

I made 420whp with my green on Airboy and Ron didn't have any problems tuning my car and had no issues for the 10k miles that I run with the green. The car that I tuned makes the same power and he doesn't have any fueling issues. We are at 1000 feed of elevation.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:18 PM   #4554
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Right.. it sounds like it might be fine, or it might not. I've pretty much gone one degree overboard on every aspect of the build just to make sure everything is good.. it doesn't make much sense to skimp on the fuel pump now at the last minute. Although I am also out of money, so it's a tough choice.


Then again, if I do buy another pump, I will have a complete turbo upgrade kit to sell (headers/uppipe, VF22, 830cc modded injectors, Walbro pump, and a custom 3" turboback). So having the extra pump to go with the rest of the stuff I have kicking around might not be a bad thing.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:53 PM   #4555
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Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
Right.. it sounds like it might be fine, or it might not. I've pretty much gone one degree overboard on every aspect of the build just to make sure everything is good.. it doesn't make much sense to skimp on the fuel pump now at the last minute. Although I am also out of money, so it's a tough choice.


Then again, if I do buy another pump, I will have a complete turbo upgrade kit to sell (headers/uppipe, VF22, 830cc modded injectors, Walbro pump, and a custom 3" turboback). So having the extra pump to go with the rest of the stuff I have kicking around might not be a bad thing.
I agree, try to find out if the walbro 400phl will fit in our cars. It will kick the ass of the 340 pump + according to some people on EVOM the 340 aeromotive is failing when using E85
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:58 PM   #4556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
I always thought if I upgraded to an Aeromotive in tank pump I would also go ahead and get an adjustable FPR with a gauge so I could bump up the pressure to ~60-65psi.. but I suppose the adjustable FPR isn't really necessary.
from my experience with in-tank pumps, increasing the fuel pressure has never worked for me. Look at the flow charts here....by increasing the base FP from 43 to 65 the pump flow would be going from the box on the left....to the box on the right. All the in-tank pumps die off where the bosch044 is more linear and can handle the increase better.

Its basically a crapshoot with the in-tank ones....its the tradeoff of how much does the injector flow increase vs the fuel pump decrease. In all cases i've tried the fuel pump decrease was greater than the injector increase and the cars leaned out worse.

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Old 10-05-2011, 04:10 PM   #4557
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I find this hard to believe. My friend has had continued failure with the Walbro 255s on e85 and my tuner from P&L is a big fan of the Aeromotive 340 pump for e85 etc. Not saying one is better than the other, just I have heard very good things with the Aeromotive and think it is a crap shoot no matter which pump you go with.

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I agree, try to find out if the walbro 400phl will fit in our cars. It will kick the ass of the 340 pump + according to some people on EVOM the 340 aeromotive is failing when using E85
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:10 PM   #4558
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STM on EVOM is claiming that they are getting out 60whp more from the 400plh walbro than from the 340phl aeromotive before maxing it out. Someone needs to try it on a suby
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:12 PM   #4559
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I find this hard to believe. My friend has had continued failure with the Walbro 255s on e85 and my tuner from P&L is a big fan of the Aeromotive 340 pump for e85 etc. Not saying one is better than the other, just I have heard very good things with the Aeromotive and think it is a crap shoot no matter which pump you go with.
I have around 50k miles of e85 on my walbro 255phl... I agree is crap shoot it seems
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:12 PM   #4560
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Yea, I realize that flow will dramatically decrease when the pressure is raised. So if you're not getting enough fuel raising the pressure will only compound your problems. My injectors should flow more than enough already, so there's not really much point in raising the pressure.

Now, if I were to go to a surge tank with an inline pump it would be a different story, but that kind of setup would be major overkill for this turbo in my DD.



I hadn't heard of Aeromotive pumps failing with e85.. in that case then I might as well just get the Deatschwerks 300lph pump. The 400lph Walbro is too new to know, plus the DW pump will flow more than enough for what I need.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:12 PM   #4561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
I hadn't heard of Aeromotive pumps failing with e85.. in that case then I might as well just get the Deatschwerks 300lph pump. The 400lph Walbro is too new to know, plus the DW pump will flow more than enough for what I need.
a bigger pump will give a larger safety margin if you were to ever overboost.

Lets just say the walbro craps at 400whp and a aero340 craps at 450whp.

If you have a boost line pop off on the walbro and you hit 35psi....you would lean out alot, whereas on the aero340 you would have more of a safety cushion. I dont think a bigger pump is ever a bad thing....besides cost n noise.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:18 PM   #4562
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Just to make sure, I'm looking at the Aeromotive PN:11142? I see they have several different configurations..
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:39 AM   #4563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
STM on EVOM is claiming that they are getting out 60whp more from the 400plh walbro than from the 340phl aeromotive before maxing it out. Someone needs to try it on a suby
if you look at the flow sheets for the walbro 400lph pump, it is only flowing about 10-15 more lph than the aero340 pump at 70psi (which is where most of us need it)...so it honestly isn't THAT GREAT of a pump choice. while it is better than the walbro255, it isn't that much better than the aero340. BUT...if all you needed was a tiny bit more headroom, then that would be the pump for you.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:46 AM   #4564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
if you look at the flow sheets for the walbro 400lph pump, it is only flowing about 10-15 more lph than the aero340 pump at 70psi (which is where most of us need it)...so it honestly isn't THAT GREAT of a pump choice. while it is better than the walbro255, it isn't that much better than the aero340. BUT...if all you needed was a tiny bit more headroom, then that would be the pump for you.
10-15lph at 70psi is a pretty good gain in fuel. Also were did you get the data from to come up with that number. The only one I saw was the realstreet and dynosty one, and they were using liter vs lbs.

Either way you guys need to start looking to amps/voltage at your fuel pumps. You will be surprised how well some of the "maxed out" pumps do with proper current going to them.

Jr
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:50 AM   #4565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
Either way you guys need to start looking to amps/voltage at your fuel pumps. You will be surprised how well some of the "maxed out" pumps do with proper current going to them.

Jr
how do you get more current going to them without a $230 boost a pump?
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:30 PM   #4566
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Besides boost-a-pump DW told me just hard wiring can give it slightly more voltage just because of the losses associated with the factory harness. Not much but enough to ensure the pump is getting the voltage it wants.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:10 PM   #4567
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how do you get more current going to them without a $230 boost a pump?

Rewire with 10/8 gauge wire, higher amp relay, higher amp fuse, and 08+ Alternator provides better amps over all. Pretty easy stuff and probably only like 150 bucks plus your time.

On a side note, it is beyond me that people wouldn't spend 230 bucks on something like that or even 350 on a real pump regulator.. Instead they will spend 500-600 on injectors, switch fuel pumps every other day ect.. Amazing

Jr
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:31 PM   #4568
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I've already upgraded my electrical system, so it runs right at 14.3 volts and can supply 100amps at 1000rpm if need be. It wouldn't be a bad idea to run new wire to the pump though..
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:10 PM   #4569
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Looks like I'm moving to Italy at the end of the year. Anybody know if they have E85?

Also, how do you guys gap your plugs? I'm kind of nervous to just smack them on concrete. They are currently at 0355ish so I've got a ways to go down.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:15 PM   #4570
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Depends on what turbo/ how much boost.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:22 PM   #4571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
Rewire with 10/8 gauge wire, higher amp relay, higher amp fuse, and 08+ Alternator provides better amps over all. Pretty easy stuff and probably only like 150 bucks plus your time.

On a side note, it is beyond me that people wouldn't spend 230 bucks on something like that or even 350 on a real pump regulator.. Instead they will spend 500-600 on injectors, switch fuel pumps every other day ect.. Amazing

Jr
So what kind of increase are we talking about here? if you have 1100cc injectors at 100% on an aero340 and you make those modifications, what is the idc gonna drop to?

i've tried jacking up the fp on cars with aeromotive fpr's and intank pumps and still had no luck. does the aero fpr suck or something?

And they arent spending that much on the injectors....the five-0's are $360 MSRP
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:57 PM   #4572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
I've already upgraded my electrical system, so it runs right at 14.3 volts and can supply 100amps at 1000rpm if need be. It wouldn't be a bad idea to run new wire to the pump though..
100 amps... is that really necessary
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:52 PM   #4573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
Rewire with 10/8 gauge wire, higher amp relay, higher amp fuse, and 08+ Alternator provides better amps over all. Pretty easy stuff and probably only like 150 bucks plus your time.

On a side note, it is beyond me that people wouldn't spend 230 bucks on something like that or even 350 on a real pump regulator.. Instead they will spend 500-600 on injectors, switch fuel pumps every other day ect.. Amazing

Jr
+1 rewire a dedicated power wire to the back just for the FP in 10 or 8 ga with a 70a relay and only use the factory wire to trigger the relay--it makes a big difference.Not so much in total voltage but available amperage to power the pumps goes way up due to lrger wire=less resistance and loss that you get from that tiny factory power wire.
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:52 PM   #4574
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100 amps... is that really necessary

well.... no, not really



At least not 95% of the time, but if I happen to be using my car to supply light and/or music for a long period of time it can come in handy. My OEM alternator was struggling to put out 40 amps at 1000rpm and the voltage was all over the place, usually between 11.5v and 13v, but never more.

My upgraded alternator is built inside a Forrester XT housing, and the larger housing, along with high quality internals allow it to run much more efficiently. So there's less drag on the engine, plus the voltage regulation is WAY better. After doing the +.5v diode mod I never see below 14.2 volts, and never above 14.4 volts.


The Aeromotive pump probably isn't "necessary", and neither are my H-Beam rods. Hell, one could argue that modification to any vehicle isn't "necessary".. but is it better? In the case of my alternator, I would say yes.
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:04 PM   #4575
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^I though you meant you had a 100 amp circuit to your fuel pump... nevermind
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