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Old 08-23-2019, 03:49 PM   #2151
*Ulimited*
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Quote:
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The front bushing really went bad fast (small one), lots of play in it, wheel was moving quite a lot on both side. That one is not sealed.

The rear one did a bit better, it's also a lot bigger, it's just starting to be lose and not smooth. It's sealed and has grease in it already.
It's hard to tell in the product pictures but can you just press your own bearing into the housing? The EMS one are just held in with a circlip.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:58 PM   #2152
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I have an opportunity to get a used RCE Tarmac 2 for my GD for cheap and would like to know feedback if someone tried it on a SM car. If you have tried one, what was the spring rate with it?

Currently have a set of fortune auto 510, 13kg/mm + 3k helper spring (with lot of preload) in front and 10kg/mm + 4k helper spring (almost no preload) in the rear.

Last edited by smoky; 09-10-2019 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:57 AM   #2153
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I have an opportunity to get a used RCE Tarmac 2 for my GD for cheap and would like to know feedback if someone tried it on a SM car. If you have tried one, what was the spring rate with it?

Currently have a set of fortune auto 510, 13k + 3k helper spring (with lot of preload) in front and 10k + 4k helper spring (almost no preload) in the rear.
The RCE is both a step up and down in different ways. The RCE/KWs have nearly unparalleled travel and are amazing at keeping the inside rear tire planted compared to the Fortunes that you’re currently running. Overall just based on this, you’d find time on course.

However, the RCE is limited by the rear valving and the inability to control a spring rate that is needed in even STU let alone SM. The rear shocks begin losing control around the 550lb mark, 650 is really pushing it. I ran around 800-900 out back in STU and threw in some 1000lb springs the night before Nationals this year in SM.

Either way, the KW/RCE shock package is excellent, especially if you stay within the rates they were designed to handle, and is still a large step up over the Fortune setup and other shocks that use a generic shock and adjustable lower mount to fit the same shock on multiple platforms.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:24 PM   #2154
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Is that with or without a rear bar for reference? I'm lifting inside rears on 255 re71s with T2s with their standard rates, but I'm using 25f 22r adjustable bars. But I'm using a Kaaz rear lsd and haven't noticed any ill effects from it yet.

Switching to RCEs over the generic asian coilovers I had before (stance supersport) has been a big improvement for me, but I was only running 8k/6k on street tires.

You may have to raise the car a dab because of the fixed mounting bracket with the RCE depending how low you have it now

I got mine 2nd hand for cheap too, and couldn't be happier with them
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:33 PM   #2155
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I was only referring to the shocks as being the only variable. Obviously there are other parts that contribute such as the bar, endlink, bushings, total roll, aero ect. But the travel, as you mentioned too, of the KW is far superior to that of the generic asian offerings.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:29 PM   #2156
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I've recently got my fresh G25-660 build to the track and the dyno and I'm very pleased with the results. 400 whp/350 ftlbs on pump gas with >300 ft/lbs of torque from 4200-7000 rpm. Throttle response is fantastic, from datalogs I can see that I go from full engine vacuum (30kpa absolute) to full boost (20psi gauge or 240kpa absolute) in about 0.8 seconds. If anyone is thinking about it I do recommend it.

build details.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2910464
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Old 12-08-2019, 09:30 PM   #2157
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I'm thinking about tires for next season and looking at the Yokes A052. The reviews I can scrounge say that it performs but will die extremely quickly with camber challenged vehicles. Has anyone heard anything or used this tire on a Subaru with 2.5-3.5 degrees negative camber?
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:50 AM   #2158
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You'd get more results in the STU thread most likely. The majority of SM people run Hoosiers.

That being said, what I've seen on other cars is low initial camber plus a bad camber curve does end them in 50-60 runs tops. I saw a DS Focus RS cord in 38 runs at Nationals and they'd already been flipped once. Higher initial camber should help, but without roll correction to keep the camber happy I'd guess (and it's just a guess) but you'd likely get 70-80 runs if you flipped and monitored. On something not heavy with good camber AND a good camber curve like a Miata I'd bet 120-140.
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:06 PM   #2159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
You'd get more results in the STU thread most likely. The majority of SM people run Hoosiers.

That being said, what I've seen on other cars is low initial camber plus a bad camber curve does end them in 50-60 runs tops. I saw a DS Focus RS cord in 38 runs at Nationals and they'd already been flipped once. Higher initial camber should help, but without roll correction to keep the camber happy I'd guess (and it's just a guess) but you'd likely get 70-80 runs if you flipped and monitored. On something not heavy with good camber AND a good camber curve like a Miata I'd bet 120-140.
Thanks for weighing in, I'll check over on the STU thread. Our local club does an SM street tire class which is why I was considering.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:26 AM   #2160
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Random question. Is it legal to remove headlights in SM?
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:06 AM   #2161
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No, they are part of the DOT safety equipment, so headlights, taillights, and turn signals all have to be present and generally working.
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Old 01-27-2020, 04:47 PM   #2162
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I just noticed in the 2020 draft rule book that is says:

"Diffusers that come as a standard OE part are allowed but may not be modified. They may be removed in their entirety to facilitate other allowed modifications. Aftermarket diffusers or other items acting as diffusers are not allowed."

Not that they probably do too much, but I guess that means 06-07 USDM STi diffusers are open to other years now?
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:30 PM   #2163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracknerd View Post
I just noticed in the 2020 draft rule book that is says:

"Diffusers that come as a standard OE part are allowed but may not be modified. They may be removed in their entirety to facilitate other allowed modifications. Aftermarket diffusers or other items acting as diffusers are not allowed."

Not that they probably do too much, but I guess that means 06-07 USDM STi diffusers are open to other years now?
Only on the years that came with technically. But I think you can add them to other GD's without modification through update backdate, and if so they'd be legal on those years.

I helped write that rule and the intent was to curb diffusers in general.

Also, those do almost nothing, so unless you want it for the looks I'd save the weight/money.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:56 PM   #2164
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Also, those do almost nothing, so unless you want it for the looks I'd save the weight/money.
Yeah, it's a pretty wimpy example of a diffuser. I'm not a fan of the wings on wagons look but wishing that I had more rear end grip at speed, so can't help but be a little tempted by "almost nothing".
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Old 01-30-2020, 05:58 PM   #2165
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Quote:
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I helped write that rule and the intent was to curb diffusers in general.

Also, those do almost nothing, so unless you want it for the looks I'd save the weight/money.
Question: Why try to curb them? If they really do almost nothing except add weight, why bother making more rules for no real reason? Legitimate question, I'm not trying to understand the diffusers but rather how and why rules need to get so complicated for such a seemingly small thing? EDIT: And I'm referring to OEM pieces, not crazy ricer stance silliness.
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:43 PM   #2166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pazzoduc View Post
Question: Why try to curb them? If they really do almost nothing except add weight, why bother making more rules for no real reason? Legitimate question, I'm not trying to understand the diffusers but rather how and why rules need to get so complicated for such a seemingly small thing? EDIT: And I'm referring to OEM pieces, not crazy ricer stance silliness.
We were starting to see people making their own diffusers using the open bumper cover rule. Proper diffusers do WAY more than help rear downforce. Since air behaves like a liquid it knows what happens downstream. When you have a good diffuser it also really increases front downforce, which is a big deal at the speeds you see in autox. In reality diffusers are VERY effective, but rely on a lot of things to make them work. Only now are we really seeing real diffusers on production cars that provide more than good looks. A lot of older cars, like my 2000 Impreza, would need a lot of panels, side skirts, etc to fully take advantage of a diffuser. The ones on the 06-07 were basically nothing more than garnish given how turbulent the air is under there from the factory. That being said, they did provide a very small amount of benefit, enough to be measureable, but not enough to care about. That's why I said those in particular weren't worth the weight.

I saw several examples of people attaching it and building cantilever systems off the rear bumper for diffusers that extended pretty far forward with good curves and strakes. We didn't want another area in SM for aero arms race, so we limited it to stock only stuff and then added you couldn't modify after some of the lotus examples were presented.

The general idea behind it was to not raise the barrier to entry further, and so we wrote the rule to make it off limits for anything beyond a stock diffuser, and then it also couldn't be modified.

As a good example of creativity, I actually had an idea to cut and flare out my exhaust (since exhaust is open) to act like a blown diffuser (ala F1). You could cut it mid car and weld flat sheet metal to it so it would effectively flat bottom the car and act as a giant setup. I even considered doing something similar to F1 with keeping the throttle plate open on decel so I wouldn't loose the front downforce it created on corner entry when I wasn't on throttle. That's what we didn't want to see or allow.

Often times the rules in SM seem odd, but that's because the people in SM are usually pretty creative at finding ways to use the existing rules to gain an advantage. We all generally are the tinkering type, and once one of us finds a loophole, all of us tend to use it. As a member of the SMAC my job was to make sure people could build and be creative, but also not butcher things to the point that the perceived barrier to entry is so high no one wants to join.
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:11 AM   #2167
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How are "families" of car brands treated in SM? Is a lexus engine in a toyota permitted? Getting farther afield, a porsche engine in a VW?
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:24 AM   #2168
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Originally Posted by Suba_Roo View Post
How are "families" of car brands treated in SM? Is a lexus engine in a toyota permitted? Getting farther afield, a porsche engine in a VW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020 Rulebook draft
16.1.D.1. Engine block (or housings of rotary engines) must be a production
unit that can be sourced from a production automobile. Any block
that is not sourced from a car of the same brand will be assessed a
150 lb. weight adjustment in addition to all weight calculations in
Appendix A. Brands that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving brands
related only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents
and will be subject to the weight adjustment referenced above. This
allows engine blocks manufactured as production units for sale in
other countries such as Japan or Germany
Any swap is permitted, it's whether there is a weight penalty applied or not. Lexus in a Toyota, possibly no weight penalty depending on the specific example. Porsche in a VW, probably a penalty since that's a corporate only relationship.
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:15 PM   #2169
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I didn't realize that anyone other than wisefab was doing geometry correcting rear knuckles for GDs until a couple days ago, has anyone tried the TSS ones?

I like the wisefab design, but living in the land of rust and war zone potholes, having a bolt on bearing like the TSS ones is a solid selling point.
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:29 PM   #2170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tracknerd View Post
I didn't realize that anyone other than wisefab was doing geometry correcting rear knuckles for GDs until a couple days ago, has anyone tried the TSS ones?

I like the wisefab design, but living in the land of rust and war zone potholes, having a bolt on bearing like the TSS ones is a solid selling point.
I made my own. Pressing in wheel bearings is not that big of a deal, but the bolt in is nice. As long as you see correction in the 1.5" or more range it'll work well. Bonus points if it ditches the bushings for sphericals.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:52 PM   #2171
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So, how about that XS-A class... Our club already had a street tire PAX modifier that allowed SP and SM cars to run Street tires, so it doesn't affect our club much. But how about the guys who were already running hoosiers, are you tempted to move to a street tire?
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:06 PM   #2172
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Short answer: No.

Long answer: Not until it has contingency, and then I'd only double dip into XSA if I had enough drivers.

It's great for local level stuff, but I think it needs to stay there and never get contingency or a jacket on the national level. The tires are a non-event in the grand scheme though, and really only matter to people who see hoosiers as a barrier to entry. For people with prepped cars, hoosiers are considerably more fun than street tires, most people are still going to tow or at the bare minimum have a second set of wheels for the competition tires, so there's really almost no difference to people actually in SM.

Who it will attract are people that are just at the beginning of the dev curve in SM or SP where they still street drive more often and haven't fit big wheels/tires yet. Or people just showing up to events with mods that would normally put them in SM or above. I think SM will double dip from time to time for fun, but not seriously until there's money/product/a jacket on the line. And that's good cause the people who would lose in SM to an actually prepped car will lose the same in XSA on street tires.

Mostly because XSA is XP on street tires, not SM. Add some lycra to the interior of an XP car to make it "finished" and you're legal. So, all the aero, as much power as you want, motorsports traction control, way more weight loss, real geometry correction, actual conversion to SLA from McPherson struts, on and on and on is all legal. I think it'll be fun, but I honestly hope it never goes legit cause it'll be a monster to control with all the possible things you can do.
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:39 PM   #2173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Who it will attract are people that are just at the beginning of the dev curve in SM or SP where they still street drive more often and haven't fit big wheels/tires yet. Or people just showing up to events with mods that would normally put them in SM or above.

And that's good cause the people who would lose in SM to an actually prepped car will lose the same in XSA on street tires.
That describes a lot of people around here. Including me...
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:06 PM   #2174
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Yep, a lot of local regions have a number of people like that. It's pretty standard and what this class is meant to capture. Not every region has a pro class or street mod street tire class to help, so this is to give the local setup a unified rule set to work with.

Hence why it's not a jacket or contingency class.
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Old 03-17-2020, 08:29 PM   #2175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsrapophis View Post
So, how about that XS-A class... Our club already had a street tire PAX modifier that allowed SP and SM cars to run Street tires, so it doesn't affect our club much. But how about the guys who were already running hoosiers, are you tempted to move to a street tire?
What is the 2020 pax number for SM on street tires for your club?

I'm very interested how much difference they think purple crack makes.
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