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Old 10-22-2017, 09:51 AM   #1
Aeronneous
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Default Whiteline W91379 Diff Outrigger Bushings

03 March 2018 Summary:

- The OEM bushings in this location are different lengths. The Whiteline bushings are the same length. Whiteline did not explain this.
- There are other offerings (Group N, Powerflex) that have two different length bushings for this position.
- The Whiteline bushings will work, but you should replace the tie plate that has a bend in it with one that does not have a bend in it (SOA part numbers below).
- The large M12 bolts that go through the bushing can be cross threaded, especially when you're laying on your back, on the floor, juggling the diff support. Be careful.

Original post below the dotted line:
---------------------------------------------------------

First, link to the title product:

https://whitelineperformance.com/sub...bushing-w91379

These are solid bushings that press into the T-shaped mount that supports the front of the differential. They replace "41326" in the link below:

https://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_20...11-415-02.html

I noticed when I took the old bushings out, the driver's side was about 1/4 inch taller than the passenger side bushing - as in, the two bushings are different. Notice at the link above that Subaru also lists them as two different part numbers. The Whiteline bushings are not different - the kit comes with two of exactly the same bushing.

After several weeks of trying to get a response from Whiteline about this, I assumed I was making things up and pushed the bushings in, reassembled everything, and tried to get it back up under the car. The passenger side is fine, no issues. The driver's side is not - I've reefed on the mounting bolt as much as I feel comfortable and there is still about a 1/4 inch gap - as if the mounting bolt needs to go 1/4 inch further into the bottom of the car to take up that gap.

Has anyone installed this kit themselves? Have I missed a part/step/secret that is causing this? When I say I've reefed on the mounting bolt, I mean I put a box end wrench on it and hit the wrench with a mallet...it isn't going any further in. At this point I'm contemplating eating the cost of the Whiteline parts, paying to have a tool made to push the bushings out, buying Group N or Powerflex parts (both list a different RH/LH part number) and redoing all the work. I'd really like to get the car off jack stands before I have to put the winter tires on...

Thanks for the help.
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Last edited by Aeronneous; 03-03-2018 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Edit for summary
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:21 PM   #2
dankor
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While I don't have any suggestions regarding what to do, I sympathize with the crap support Whiteline has given you. I've been going back and forth with them for weeks regarding some incredibly noisy endlinks to no avail. In retrospect, I was the naive one for thinking paying the premium would have given me a better chance at being a happy customer.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:38 PM   #3
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In their defense, they could be having staffing issues or something like that. But, I agree, I've been at this conversation for pushing a month already. The car has enough dust on it that I've contemplated washing it...in the garage.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:58 PM   #4
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Are the 2 bolts used the same length?

Regardless, you are either bottoming out the bolt in the hole, or, ran out of threads.
How about a few flat washers (3-4) between the bolt head and bushing? You need a bit more stack height than the current gap so you get a load on the bushing, so, maybe 3/8" stack of washers.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:23 PM   #5
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Default Whiteline W91379 Diff Outrigger Bushings...don't fit!

I was considering buying this product a few weeks ago and while reviewing their install instructions I noticed the bushings have a specific orientation. Flipping one might explain the gap.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:06 PM   #6
Aeronneous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Are the 2 bolts used the same length?

Regardless, you are either bottoming out the bolt in the hole, or, ran out of threads.
How about a few flat washers (3-4) between the bolt head and bushing? You need a bit more stack height than the current gap so you get a load on the bushing, so, maybe 3/8" stack of washers.
Agreed Charlie, I'm running out of tapped hole to put the bolt in. (The bolts are the same part number - see the Subaru parts link). I could just stack washers in there, but honestly, I don't want to. There are other bushing kits that fit correctly, and I'm not big on rigging stuff like that when there are other options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_ View Post
I was considering buying this product a few weeks ago and while reviewing their install instructions I noticed the bushings have a specific orientation. Flipping one might explain the gap.
I reviewed the install directions just to make sure, but I've got them both in there in the proper orientation. Good call though.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:49 PM   #7
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Do you have the lower mounting plates installed correctly and/or they are not bent?
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Old 10-22-2017, 04:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-E View Post
Do you have the lower mounting plates installed correctly and/or they are not bent?
One is bent, the other is not. I switched the sides I had them on just to check, but it didn't improve anything. Passenger side bolts up and looks great, driver side not so much...

Again, a good point for anyone else looking at this install though.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:49 PM   #9
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OK, I have no clue, have not used that kit.
Just throwing out ideas and "hack fixes".
Sorry.

If you find something, please post for the next guy, thanks.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
OK, I have no clue, have not used that kit.
Just throwing out ideas and "hack fixes".
Sorry.

If you find something, please post for the next guy, thanks.
Sorry man, I didn't mean to be rude. I'm just frustrated with Whiteline, and doubly frustrated with myself for installing it when I thought this might be an issue.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeronneous View Post
Sorry man, I didn't mean to be rude. I'm just frustrated with Whiteline, and doubly frustrated with myself for installing it when I thought this might be an issue.
I didn't take it as rude at all.
Just out of ideas to give you.

Edit, I'm sorta PO'd at Whiteline as well. Years ago, I bought springs for my car from a vendor. Only got one pair, not the other. Went back and forth with the vendor until they said they had a PC issue and couldn't find the order, so go away.
The springs are obsolete (controls for a Legacy wagon) so I contacted Whiteline to get the specs so I could have the pair made locally. Whiteline stated they didn't have the spec, so couldn't help me out.
WTF?

Last edited by Charlie-III; 10-23-2017 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 10-23-2017, 08:59 AM   #12
adam sti
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and I was just about to buy these .. find a solution?
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam sti View Post
and I was just about to buy these .. find a solution?
Nothing yet. Hoping this thread will catch someone’s eye who has done the install themselves and can discuss their experience.

On a related note, would you mind taking a look under your car to see if your setup is like mine? If you haven’t seen them, the OEM bushings are in metal sleeves, which are pressed into the loops in the diff support. The OD of the metal bushing sleeve is about 1/4 inch less than the OD of the loop it is pressed into. That means if you’re looking at the driver side while it is bolted up, you’ll see the diameter step down above the tie plate that all three bolts go through. The height of this step down in diameter is about 1/4 inch. The passenger side won’t show this step down in diameter, because the metal bushing sleeve is the same length as the loop it is pressed into. To be clear, the metal bushing sleeve on the driver side is about 1/4 inch taller than the loop it is pressed into, accounting for the gap you’re able to see.

The parts diagram link above should shed some light on my very confusing description. Thanks.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:48 PM   #14
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I'll take a look inside of my garage this weekend as I may still have a rear differential mount from a 2005 WRX sedan and if I do, I will take a look and measure whether the bushings are different from left to right.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-E View Post
I'll take a look inside of my garage this weekend as I may still have a rear differential mount from a 2005 WRX sedan and if I do, I will take a look and measure whether the bushings are different from left to right.
Awesome. Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:45 AM   #16
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Edit: didn't realize it at the time of posting, but I completely forgot I have kartboy outrigger bushings installed which probably added some confusion. I was focusing on the lower metal busing sleeve hanging down

Drivers side:

Passenger side:

Last edited by Subie_; 03-23-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 10-25-2017, 03:43 PM   #17
Aeronneous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_ View Post
Drivers side:

Passenger side:
Thanks Subie. If I’m seeing things correctly, on the driver side, you can see the metal bushing sleeve sticking out from the bottom of the loop in the diff support. On the passenger side, you can’t see that sleeve sticking out past the loop. Do you agree?
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeronneous View Post
Thanks Subie. If I’m seeing things correctly, on the driver side, you can see the metal bushing sleeve sticking out from the bottom of the loop in the diff support. On the passenger side, you can’t see that sleeve sticking out past the loop. Do you agree?

Correct. This combined with the 2 different OEM bushing part numbers made me hold off on buying the whiteline kit until I understood what was going on.
For some reason I suspect a jack was placed under the passenger side bracket by the previous owner. If so, this might not be completely accurate. I'll remove the brackets to take a closer look and get some measurements tomorrow.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:14 PM   #19
Aeronneous
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Default The Plot Thickens.......

First, some pictures of the diff support with the Whiteline bushings, installed under the car. Note that the diff is fully installed with all the original parts, and everything is tightened down. I've removed the tie plates for the sake of the pictures, and I've used a floor jack under the diff support to push it flush against the bottom of the car (without that, the driver's side falls down because there is a gap...see above).

Driver's side:

Note the big gap between the head of the bolt and the bottom of the bushing.

Passenger's side:

Note the bolt will bottom out on the bushing, even though the tie plate is missing.

This seems to line up with Subie's pictures above. Driver's side bushing should be taller than passenger side bushing.

Now for the fun part.

I ordered 41310FE050 (see link in first post) which is the diff support with the OEM bushings included. I took the diff support I have (with Whiteline bushings installed) off the car and put it next to the new one with the OEM bushings for some pictures.









These pictures are taken looking at the front of the diff support. You'll notice that the OEM bushing on the driver's side is shorter than the OEM bushing on the passenger side. Which is...drumroll please...the OPPOSITE of what I needed to solve the problem. Also, it is the opposite of Subie's pictures above, which I've had to use as a reference till now, because I chopped the original bushings into tiny pieces to get them out.

I'm headed back out there now to put the new diff support (with OEM bushings) under the car and see what happens, but I thought I'd post the pictures first.

As before, any thoughts or input are appreciated. I'll be back with more info shortly.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:10 PM   #20
Aeronneous
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Default Well, this is awkward...

I've finally tracked down the issue. The tapped hole in the bottom of the body that the M12 bolt goes into was cross threaded. I dug out the original bolt (I bought new ones to replace the originals) and the threads were torn up pretty badly. Showing a flashlight into the tapped hole in the chassis showed the same signs. The picture above shows a new bolt installed - I took that one out, and the threads are a train wreck.

Seeing how badly it was cross threaded, I drilled it out and installed a helicoil. That's a great solution, unless you don't drill the hole straight before you tap for the helicoil. Now, I've got a usable tapped hole, but it puts that M12 bolt on enough of an angle that I can't re-install the tie plate. The two holes in the chassis that the smaller bolts thread into are completely covered, because the tie plate is that far off when it is located on the M12 bolt.

So, I've single-handedly taken things from bad to worse. I've got a screwed up helicoil in the bottom of the car, and I don't know if there is enough meat there to pull it out and install another thread repair solution.

Help. Please.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:16 AM   #21
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Man, you've gone through quite the ordeal. Is there any update on these? I was checking out your install before i try and do mine, as I've also had issues with the tie plates.
Do you know what you're drilling/tapping into? You could see if its possible to install a sort of nutplate from the cabin.
My only other contribution would be that I believe the tie plates to be different from drivers to passenger side. I actually snapped off the smaller tie plate bolts and decided to just tap the holes OS. I've seen where people have removed the plates altogether, but decided I'm not a fan of that idea.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braz View Post
Man, you've gone through quite the ordeal. Is there any update on these? I was checking out your install before i try and do mine, as I've also had issues with the tie plates.
Do you know what you're drilling/tapping into? You could see if its possible to install a sort of nutplate from the cabin.
My only other contribution would be that I believe the tie plates to be different from drivers to passenger side. I actually snapped off the smaller tie plate bolts and decided to just tap the holes OS. I've seen where people have removed the plates altogether, but decided I'm not a fan of that idea.
I'm not out of the woods yet, but closer. At this point, I've drilled a bigger hole to install a Keensert, or key-locking insert. Haven't gotten that far yet. To answer your question about what I'm drilling into, it is a welded nut inside the frame rail. I say inside, because from below is the only way I've found to access it. I got a (rented) bore scope in there to look at it, but only by going through a hole beneath the driver's rear door sill trim. I suppose I could punch a hole in that frame member somewhere...but I'm exploring all other options first. If the Keensert doesn't work out, I'll get a weld nut made, drill the hole even bigger, and get someone to come lay on the floor of my garage and attach that weld nut for me.

The tie plates are definitely different between driver and passenger side. I've seen this on a couple of cars besides mine now, as well as all the Subaru parts links I listed elsewhere in the thread. Why the Whiteline parts don't accommodate this is a mystery to me. I ended up ordering an entire new OEM piece with the OEM bushings in it (meaning a have the original, professionally sandblasted, with Whiteline bushings installed sitting in the basement) and intend to put that back in the car.

If I was going to do this again? I probably wouldn't. I'd choose one of the kits that installs a new bushing to take up the gap between the OEM one and the bottom of the car. If I was really masochistic, I'd probably order the Powerflex units, or the Group N parts from RalliSpec. As the Powerflex ones are split bushings, they'll be easier to install. I had to get a tool made to push the Whiteline bushings in - it was just a piece of steel tube turned on the lathe to have about .010" interference with the urethane (.010" smaller than the diameter of the urethane) of the bushing, to make sure I was pressing on the metal sleeve. You'll want something like that to press in any type of metal sleeve bushing.

Please, think carefully about taking this on. The challenging part is re-installing the assembled diff and crossmember under the car without cross threading things. It weighs a lot, is full of diff fluid, has seals in it that you can't gouge/fill with dirt/knock out and is incredibly awkward to get out from under the car. I tried with jack stands and two floor jacks, and that didn't get the job done. I'll end up re-assembling the diff with the carrier (t-shaped thing with the bushings) and setting it on three floor jacks - one under each bushing and one under the diff. With that, I should be able to push both bushings flush against the bottom of the car, lift the differential to where the holes line up with the subframe, get things lined up and square, then thread bolts in. Carefully. By hand.

In fairness, I think the Whiteline bushings are the highest quality aftermarket product available for this specific bushing. They have cross hatching on the ID of the urethane, metal sleeves, good quality molding, etc. If you decide you must have them, I think they would fit fine as long as you replace one of your tie plates. I really dug into this point with them, and they couldn't tell me why other manufacturers had two different length bushings in this position and they did not. As I said above though, the process of removing that looks much easier than it is. If you choose to do it, lift the whole car as high as you can, get three floor jacks and two friends and go for it. In all seriousness, if you don't have those things, I really would not recommend dropping that diff support.

Sorry it took me a long time to get back to this. If you've got more questions, just post here. I'll do my best to answer more quickly next time.

Edit:

Group N Bushings: http://www.rallispec.com/mou_bush_rstbk1.html (see note three at the bottom of the page)
Powerflex Bushings: https://powerflexusa.com/imprezawrxandsti2011-.aspx (note "outrigger to chassis left side" and "outrigger to chassis right side")

Last edited by Aeronneous; 01-22-2018 at 10:19 PM. Reason: Edit to add alternatives
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:19 AM   #23
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Did you figure out if the passenger side whiteline bushing is supposed to be pressed such that the bushing sleeve sits ~1/4" below the housing of the carrier, similar to the stock bushing?
Honestly I had no idea powerflex offered outrigger bushings. I had some of the standard inserts and saw a lot of deformation in them, so I decided to go with full replacement of the bushings. I've already gotten to the point of torching out the old rubber bushings and have a bearing press with the correct DIA for the bushing sleeves that I'll try on the today.

My tie plates are relatively new, after seeing if replacing them would help with some vibrations (didn't). I actually have the whole rear end apart with the rear knuckles off, and more importantly the e-brake cables out of the way, so hopefully that'll help with getting the T carrier back in. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that things line up.
Best of luck with your Keensert
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:39 PM   #24
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The directions that came with my Whiteline set did not mention anything about that. Looking at the Whiteline bushings I already pressed in, I think you would have some trouble leaving part of the bushing sleeve sticking out the bottom, as you wouldn't have any bushing sticking out of the top to rest against the bottom of the car. If I were following through with the Whiteline bushings, I'd replace one of those tie plates so that I had two without the bend in them and call it a day. I swapped the tie plates from side to side when I had the diff support with Whiteline bushings under the car, and the one without the bend in it fit properly on both sides.

Another note - do you remember the stamped washers you removed from above the OEM outrigger bushings? They have three stamped tabs that stick down in the middle and trap the portion of the inner metal sleeve on the OEM bushing that sticks out the top. Obviously you won't be able to re-use those, because they'll interfere with the Whiteline bushings. I was planning on replacing those with some giant stainless fender washers I got from McMaster-Carr, part number 91525A152. These are a little large on the OD - you could probably go down to 2.75in and be ok, but as the 3in diameter didn't interfere with anything, I would have used these. Just don't go smaller than 0.5in on the ID or the M12 bolt won't fit. I guess I could have left them off too, but I felt better about the Whiteline bushing rubbing on the smooth surface of the washer than the rough surface on the bottom of the car. My car has been in the rust belt though, so you may not have that issue.

That was another reason I ditched the Whiteline kit - no one in tech support could tell me what to do with those stamped washers I took out, whether or not they had intended on replacing them, if they were important to the life of the Whiteline bushings, etc. Had that been the only issue, it wouldn't have bothered me. But, in conjunction with their lack of awareness that the OEM bushings were different lengths, I passed.

Borrowed the appropriate reamers and tap from work today, so hopefully the car has a usable tapped hole by the end of the weekend.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:48 PM   #25
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Default Getting Closer...

I got the diff support (t-shaped thing) back on the car today. This was very, very hard to do even with a second set of hands.

The problem was the center-to-center distance on the bushings was different than the center-to-center of the tapped holes in the bottom of the car. I put the large bolt in the passenger side first (that was the side where I didn't have to repair the threads) and it threaded in smoothly by hand. When I went over to the driver's side, I pushed everything up flush against the bottom of the car and the tapped hole was partially obscured. In case anyone else runs up against this, I used a nut and bolt to push the diff support towards the passenger side of the car while the diff support was held up with a jack and a jack stand:



I was laying on the floor under the driver's side of the car nearly at the rear wheel well, shooting towards the front of the car to take this picture. Thats a thin piece of wood between the head of the bolt and the frame on the left side of the picture.
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